Should Weath Be Redistributed?

[Wells]

Being able to use and give your wealth to others is part of a free and moral society. People also get high stations in society through good genes etc anyway, it's not like you "earned" them necessarily.

It just makes the wealthy the new monarchs. They end up with all the access, all the wealthy, all the power, just by virtue of their birth.

[Nadev]

I was born in San Francisco.

So THAT'S what's wrong with you. kidding, don't hurt me

[starlord]

What? Private, voluntary handouts are most certainly part of capitalism. Charity, gifts, inheritance and so on, are all part of capitalism.

well that could be applied to any sort of voluntary transaction. like taxes. which are then given/spent as the new owner pleases.. and the recepients have then every right to the money.

[tiporispit]

Well the US seems to have a worthless welfare system(not bashing your country), at least from what I read, it seems ineffeciant, there seems to be little to no follow up and control, which leaves it wide open for cheaters and people to exploit it.

I'd say that about sums it up.

[Deleted]

well that could be applied to any sort of voluntary transaction. like taxes. which are then given/spent as the new owner pleases.. and the recepients have then every right to the money.

Taxes aren't voluntary.

It just makes the wealthy the new monarchs. They end up with all the access, all the wealthy, all the power, just by virtue of their birth.

Erhm nope? You can gain and lose wealth. They don't get wealthy by the virtue of their birth, they get wealthy because their parents decide to give money to them. People get money all the time that they didn't realy "earn", but they got it fair and square and it's their money to control.

You also need to look at this from the perspective of the parent, not the kid. It's one of the most valuable freedoms to be able to invest in your own child so that he/she will have a better life.

[Deleted]

well that could be applied to any sort of voluntary transaction. like taxes. which are then given/spent as the new owner pleases.. and the recepients have then every right to the money.

Taxes... voluntary transaction? Try not paying taxes. See what happens.

Capitalism is a system of voluntary exchanges of property titles. Giving someone a gift is still a voluntary exchange of a property title. As is charity and inheritance.

[Djuntas]

All I can say is without rich, proffesional people we wouldent have jobs. As I mentioned earliere, "rich people" already given ALOT back, alone just taxes from these huge companies are a large part of why you have roads to drive on, schools to go to. Yes its insane these people can go to work for a pay-check of 5 million dollars or more yearly, but they did something for it in many cases.

Jobs aint made cause some politicians do something, they are made by Mr. Johnson who starts a company. 30 years later that company now grew to 50.000 employess, cause of Mr. Johnson, and nobody else. He started the snowball that rolled down the mountain.

Everytime we get job-information from USA we europeans get to hear about it in financial news. Jobs are extremly important for the economy. Just look at spain, was it 25% unemployment now? The country losses alot of taxes with people not contributing.

I'm all inn for less taxes on companies, they already pay alot. Less taxes in you're country = You can have cheaper jobs, fuss not relay on fucking China, that will take over the gut damn world in 50 years...Why would you make a company in europe, when you can just go to a place in the world with less taxes.

[tiporispit]

Im actually against wellfare, medicaid, and other programs like these. My problem is when mommy and daddy give you money and you live your life partying and living off the interest. THAT IS MY PROBLEM. I mean talk about dead weight. Those people are much more of a problem then the near-homeless people trying to feed their family off of 400 bucks a month.

Also, you dont know how social security works, do you? so many stupid people, gah.

Who cares how they got their money? At some point, someone in their family put in the time and effort, so they wouldn't have to. Who do you think contributes more to the economy? Paris Hilton, or every person you know in life combined? The richest of the rich, Gates, Allen, Woz, Jobs, Buffet, Branson, etc all came from Middle Class families. They weren't handed shit.

It's not unusual for people to work 60 hours a week. 2 people working a minimum wage job at 60 hours each make close to $55,000 a year. If you can't make a decent living on $55,000, the problem isn't the money. The problem with welfare rats in this country is they don't wanna work for what they have. They're not interested in 60 hour weeks to get ahead. It's too easy to go ahead and let your kids eat $400 a month while you sit on your ass, all the while, crying about the rich people who make your lazy life possible. Bums.

[starlord]

Taxes aren't voluntary.

they are part of being a citizen of a country (that has taxes). you dont have to be a citizen.

Erhm nope? You can gain and lose wealth. They don't get wealthy by the virtue of their birth, they get wealthy because their parents decide to give money to them. You need to look at this from the perspective of the parent, not the kid. People get money all the time that they didn't realy "earn", but they got it fair and square and it's their money to control.

why cant we look at it from the kids perspective?

[tiporispit]

All I can say is without rich, proffesional people we wouldent have jobs. As I mentioned earliere, "rich people" already given ALOT back, alone just taxes from these huge companies are a large part of why you have roads to drive on, schools to go to. Yes its insane these people can go to work for a pay-check of 5 million dollars or more yearly, but they did something for it in many cases.

Jobs aint made cause some politicians do something, they are made by Mr. Johnson who starts a company. 30 years later that company now grew to 50.000 employess, cause of Mr. Johnson, and nobody else. He started the snowball that rolled down the mountain.

Everytime we get job-information from USA we europeans get to hear about it in financial news. Jobs are extremly important for the economy. Just look at spain, was it 25% unemployment now? The country losses alot of taxes with people not contributing.

I'm all inn for less taxes on companies, they already pay alot. Less taxes in you're country = You can have cheaper jobs, fuss not relay on fucking China, that will take over the gut damn world in 50 years...Why would you make a company in europe, when you can just go to a place in the world with less taxes.

I would like to add the Constitution originally called for tax distribution to be expenditure, divided by Census population. The beauty of that system is everyone works to have government supply a bare minimum of services, because the more it grows, the more you pay. Well, when they decided to piss on the Constitution with Federal Income Tax, they tossed in a provision that let them charge everyone a different amount. Of course, that led to our current situation, where everyone wants government to spend, spend, spend because... hey... they're not the ones paying for it anymore.

[Deleted]

Effort doesn't matter. I could spend years working day in and day out on a painting, but if the result is something everyone considers ugly, do I deserve lots of money? But I worked so hard! I can see that antiquated ideas about value coming from labor are still very common. Even a spoiled rich kid is producing something of value to someone. Otherwise their parents would not share their wealth. Voluntary exchanges occur only when both parties see themselves as benefiting, when they both value what they're getting over what they're receiving.

[Deleted]

they are part of being a citizen of a country (that has taxes). you dont have to be a citizen.

They're still not voluntary, government handouts aren't part of capitalism. Voluntary, private gifts and "handouts" are.

why cant we look at it from the kids perspective?

I was perhaps a bit unclear, you can certainly look from the kids perspective, but you also need to look from the parents' perspective.

[starlord]

They're still not voluntary, government handouts aren't part of capitalism. Voluntary, private gifts and "handouts" are.

yes, they are. you agree to them by being a citizen. your benefit is the country you live in functions.
so basically its only ok if its one entity and not another doing the handouts?

I was perhaps a bit unclear, you can certainly look from the kids perspective, but you also need to look from the parents' perspective.

their perspective is they want their kid to not have to work hard or as hard in order to get more money.

[Deleted]

yes, they are. you agree to them by being a citizen. your benefit is the country you live in functions.
so basically its only ok if its one entity and not another doing the handouts?

I was born here and given citizenship. I never signed a contract. And you don't get to decide what is good for me. I would likely spend my money very differently than the government is spending it. I am at a loss, since I would not have made the exchange without a gun being pointed at me.

[starlord]

I was born here and given citizenship. I never signed a contract. And you don't get to decide what is good for me. I would likely spend my money very differently than the government is spending it. I am at a loss, since I would not have made the exchange without a gun being pointed at me.

you could move to another country, like somalia. they dont have taxes.

[Deleted]

you could move to another country, like somalia. they dont have taxes.

No, I like it here. You move. Take the state with you.

[Prag]

What? God no. Natural selection will ALWAYS find a way to exist. Find a way to get work for the poor - steady, safe non-exploitative labor - and expand low income housing (not projects).

[starlord]

No, I like it here. You move. Take the state with you.

they dont have a state either. well, much of one. lovely beaches too, i hear.

[gmart248]

A lot of bums voted yes haha.....

Infracted

[Raamm]

You realize its impossible to create any fairness unless you were at the ground floor of an industry when it first started. As in were you or a family ancestor a partner with Rockafellar? if not then you'll never be a big name in oil.

Were you a partner with samuel walton when he started walmart? Were you a partner with John Pierpont Morgan? Alot of the wealthy people in our country inherited their wealth and didn't make it. Sure you have a new guy every 4 years or so such as mark.

Also theres reason the wealthy should be ok with taxs instead of fighting them. http://www.ctj.org/pdf/notax2012.pdf theres a list of corporations that didn't pay any taxes in 11 or got negative refunds as in didn't pay anything but, still got stuff back.

Because if they don't do something soon you're going to see a return of populism which is where class warfare is advocated.