I don't like alternate difficulties... (rant)

[Malthurius]

EDIT FOR CLARITY AT BOTTOM.


I don't like alternate difficulties of the same content to be part of a games progression, and I will explain why I feel this way.

I respect the opinion of those who do enjoy what I am about to describe, but I simply hate this form of progression and it bores greatly.

Let me use an example of one of the most recent games I've played: Diablo 3. (probably not the best example in hindsight)

I love Diablo 3. I beat normal, nightmare, and I'm working on hell, but I found myself drained of enthusiasm for the game a little ways into act 2 of nightmare; why is that? Mainly it's because it's the same game, except with different loot, more health on enemies, and more damage done by enemies. I was intrigued by elite mobs with abilities absent from normal mode, but that was all that really interested me.

Normal mode was the most fun for me because of the feeling of fresh content that I've never done before, but it was too easy and I had no option to make it harder on myself other than gimping myself through using lesser gear.

Another example of this is from WoW. I had fun doing raids the first time, doing it on any other difficulty after doing the easier mode felt boring and tired despite it being more challenging (I guess, it's still basically a competency/gear check that 9/24 other people must pass with you). Fights like Ragnaros Heroic pushed me to want to see it because of it adding another phase and lore ending.

Basically, I play content for the experience of the content, not to unlock a greater challenge of the same content through gear or completion requirement or otherwise.



I like difficult like most console games: Select desired difficult at the start of the game. A god example of this, however not a difficult game, is Kingdom Hearts.

In Kingdom Hearts, you have the choice before the game starts of 3 difficulties: Beginner, Standard, or Proud. Each encompass the entire game, you don't have to complete one before the other, and you get a secret ending easier inverse to the difficulty you selected as a reward/downside to the difficulty chosen.

I like this system of difficulty because in all 3 difficulties you're given the exact same skill sets, but have harsher or easier conditions to combat but it can be fresh and challenging for skilled players from the get go instead of having to slog through faceroll content to get to the content suitable for your skills.

I'm a firm believer of "If you can't complete the content, you don't deserve to see it" which is opposite of Blizzard's current philosophy. I'm not saying that because "I'm elitist and believe that only I, the elite, should get to see content," I rarely get to see end game in WoW. I don't believe a person is entitled to see the end of a game if they payed 60$ or are paying 15$ a month if they aren't good at the game. The player should rise to the challenge to see the content, the game should never lower itself, which is exactly what the first difficulty system does, but it also makes the harder difficulties less interesting because it feels like backtracking for those who actually wanted a challenge in the first place.


I'm starting to get off track I feel... (aka, TL;DR)

All I think I'm trying to get at is that:
I don't think easier difficulties of the same content should be forced upon the player, but should be an option.
Players should rise to the challenge of the game, the game shouldn't lower itself for the player.



I know this is a stupid rant, but I felt like I had to get this off of my chest somehow, and typing it into a thread was the best way I could think of.

EDIT: I'm not lashing out at any game. I'm not claiming to be elite, and I'm not saying that only the hardcore should beat a game. I'm just disagreeing with the progression method of requiring lower difficulties of the same content to be completed before higher ones.

The bit about "rising to the game's challenge, not the game lowering itself to the gamer" is just a little extra I felt I wanted to add, since it is the way I think games should be. If a player can't complete the lowest difficulty level, then the content shouldn't be nerfed to accommodate them, they should become better to accommodate the content. Humans have the capacity to learn from their errors, and learning from defeat in games is no different unless you have a mental dysfunction.

[Syrele]

I couldn't agree more. It just seems like lazy game development to do that. The worst is when they brag about how long and full of content their games are, when in reality they are shallow and short, but they expect you to replay it 8 times on different difficulties to "fully experience" the game

[Deleted]

I'm a firm believer of "If you can't complete the content, you don't deserve to see it" which is opposite of Blizzard's current philosophy.

I'm a firm believer of "If you bought the game, you deserve to see it"

edit: so as a clarification, because I see this getting quoted a lot:

I did not mean, that just by buying a game players should get the opportunity to access every part of a game however they please.
I just don't like the term "deserve" in this context.
To me it sounds like an attempt of promoting the idea of elitism in games and an excuse to tell players "the base difficulty should be hard, and if you don't like it, your problem"

Games should have different difficulties and offer something to everybody.
Even if that means having an easy mode, so that players, who aren't that good, can get a nice experience for their money.

[OmniSkribe]

It's Stated already MILLIONS TIMES on this forum. "This game is not for you, leave and don't whine". There are MILLIONS of players who will play this game even after beating it on Inferno and years after (especially after PVP patch).

/thread

Btw http://speedrunwiki.com/Diablo_II:_Lord_of_Destruction so how is D3 short and blah blah blah?

Even if you've never played D1-D2. Game is legend and should have checked how and why it's played the way it's played. IT'S F@cking Diablo.

Don't like it? Leave it. No one cares.

/thread again

[Glol]

I'm a firm believer of "If you bought the game, you deserve to see it"

What people like you fail to realize that by buying the game, you are able to see all the content. The only thing holding you back from seeing the content you paid for is your own lack of time to invest or skill at the game. The way I see it, that isn't my problem. If it does not mean enough to you to spend the time necessary to get to certain content or gain the skills necessary to progress, then do not spend your time that way.

But for people who want to really be elite at what they are doing and gain the respect they deserve for it, do not ruin that experience. Your argument is invalid simply because there is nothing stopping you from seeing the content you paid for.

[Nzx]

Uhh.. Diablo has always been about completing higher difficulties. You can't even feasibly (just covering my bases cause I know someone will say something about grinding normal mobs for ten years to sixty) reach the level cap in D3 without playing through the game at least two and a half times. NM/Hell/Inferno are basically entirely new "raids", except with the same scenery. The "boss fights" (elites) all have different mechanics through their affixes. If you bought the game without doing any research into what the gameplay is like, that's your fault.

[Somebodyelse]

It's Stated already MILLIONS TIMES on this forum. "This game is not for you, leave and don't whine". There are MILLIONS of players who will play this game even after beating it on Inferno and years after (especially after PVP patch).

/thread

Learn to read it's depressing..........He didn't talk specifically about d3 but used it as an exemple of lazy development that asks you to beat out the SAME content on different difficulty just to see the "full"game wich sucks...

[Deleted]

What people like you fail to realize that by buying the game, you are able to see all the content. The only thing holding you back from seeing the content you paid for is your own lack of time to invest or skill at the game. The way I see it, that isn't my problem. If it does not mean enough to you to spend the time necessary to get to certain content or gain the skills necessary to progress, then do not spend your time that way.

But for people who want to really be elite at what they are doing and gain the respect they deserve for it, do not ruin that experience. Your argument is invalid simply because there is nothing stopping you from seeing the content you paid for.

I always find funny when people call others lazy for not putting "effort" in a video game. You know where I put my effort? In my job. And I get rewarded for it, with money. In a video game, I *spend* my money, and I expect to get something for that money. If I have to put an effort again and do not get rewarded in any form (or get rewarded with some random item I can't care about), I just drop that game and never buy it/another of the series again.

In other words: I put in effort = I expect money/rewards. I put in money = I expect entertainment.

---------- Post added 2012-05-27 at 02:12 PM ----------

It's Stated already MILLIONS TIMES on this forum. "This game is not for you, leave and don't whine". There are MILLIONS of players who will play this game even after beating it on Inferno and years after (especially after PVP patch).

/thread

Btw http://speedrunwiki.com/Diablo_II:_Lord_of_Destruction so how is D3 short and blah blah blah?

Even if you've never played D1-D2. Game is legend and should have checked how and why it's played the way it's played. IT'S F@cking Diablo.

Don't like it? Leave it. No one cares.

/thread again

Just because a game is intentionally using a bad design doesn't make that design any less bad.

[Crusantos]

Regarding the D3 example, then that is the nature of the genre itself, so i really wouldn't blame that. However, i do agree on the WoW-part and heroic encounters.

[Deleted]

What people like you fail to realize that by buying the game, you are able to see all the content. The only thing holding you back from seeing the content you paid for is your own lack of time to invest or skill at the game. The way I see it, that isn't my problem. If it does not mean enough to you to spend the time necessary to get to certain content or gain the skills necessary to progress, then do not spend your time that way.

But for people who want to really be elite at what they are doing and gain the respect they deserve for it, do not ruin that experience. Your argument is invalid simply because there is nothing stopping you from seeing the content you paid for.

I want the game to be hard, but I want people to be able to make a choice. Nobody should be told "this is the game, if it's too hard for you, either invest time in it or leave." That is wrong, from a business perspective, and it doesn't help anyone. Players, who want a hard difficulty setting have just that, in Diablo 3 and WoW.

Nobody is taking away from you the opportunity to be "elite".

[OmniSkribe]

Learn to read it's depressing..........He didn't talk specifically about d3 but used it as an exemple of lazy development that asks you to beat out the SAME content on different difficulty just to see the "full"game wich sucks...

You too please learn to read. Diablo is game about grind grind grind grind grind and OMFG LULZ HARDCORE PVP.

It's how it was played 12 years ago. It's how it was played 16 years ago.

There is no lazy development it's feature! It's the same as bash wow for Grinding Normal and then Heroic versions of Dungeons and Raids? It's absolutely the same thing. You grind grind grind grind only for Gear because you've already known the story behind the dungeon.

And yeah it's so awesome yo use and example single-player game.
The whole post just invalid and meaningless because bashing something for it's mechanics is retarded.

[Nirawen]

What people like you fail to realize that by buying the game, you are able to see all the content. The only thing holding you back from seeing the content you paid for is your own lack of time to invest or skill at the game. The way I see it, that isn't my problem. If it does not mean enough to you to spend the time necessary to get to certain content or gain the skills necessary to progress, then do not spend your time that way.

But for people who want to really be elite at what they are doing and gain the respect they deserve for it, do not ruin that experience. Your argument is invalid simply because there is nothing stopping you from seeing the content you paid for.

Agreed, when I see people's comments about it being unfair that all content isn't easily avaliable to people of any skill/dedication level its like i've stepped into Harrison Bergeron.

Your argument is invalid because you claim "there is nothing stopping you from seeing the content you paid for." when in fact there are Many Many things in life that can stop a person from reaching the end.

So does that mean all games should be made to be completed by any player? Regardless of the huge differences in player ability what if someone only has 10-15 minutes of gaming time a day, should the games be no longer than 2-3 hours to accommodate him?.

[Deleted]

You too please learn to read. Diablo is game about grind grind grind grind grind and OMFG LULZ HARDCORE PVP.

It's how it was played 12 years ago. It's how it was played 16 years ago.

There is no lazy development it's feature! Why don't u Bash wow for Grinding Normal and then Heroic versions of Dungeons and Raids? It's absolutely the same thing. You grind grind grind grind only for Gear because you've already known the story behind the dungeon.

It's a feature, and it's a bad feature is what I'm (and some others here) saying! Just because they did it on purpose, doesn't make it any less bad.

[Deleted]

Fully agreed with this. I hate it when people justify someone not finishing the game because they only finished it on normal, and "oh, there's so much content on heroic" when in fact it's exactly same content with bigger numbers. I want to play normal mode and I don't consider hard mode "other content" because, at least for those games you talked about, there's no other content. It's same story, and only true extra content in heroic for example in WoW were Sinestra and Algalon. Besides that, heroic is the same as normal with bigger numbers.

[Squirreludecker]

What people like you fail to realize that by buying the game, you are able to see all the content. The only thing holding you back from seeing the content you paid for is your own lack of time to invest or skill at the game. The way I see it, that isn't my problem. If it does not mean enough to you to spend the time necessary to get to certain content or gain the skills necessary to progress, then do not spend your time that way.

But for people who want to really be elite at what they are doing and gain the respect they deserve for it, do not ruin that experience. Your argument is invalid simply because there is nothing stopping you from seeing the content you paid for.

if you're relying on a video game to be the outlet where you "gain the respect you deserve" then you have far greater personal problems than the person who doesnt have time to play through a 600+ hour single player rpg Just to see the end.

Your argument is invalid because you claim "there is nothing stopping you from seeing the content you paid for." when in fact there are Many Many things in life that can stop a person from reaching the end. Not the least of which are lame people who think content should be hard just so they can derive some shred of self-worth and pride from having finished it.

[Deleted]

I want the game to be hard, but I want people to be able to make a choice. Nobody should be told "this is the game, if it's too hard for you, either invest time in it or leave." That is wrong, from a business perspective, and it doesn't help anyone. Players, who want a hard difficulty setting have just that, in Diablo 3 and WoW.

Nobody is taking away from you the opportunity to be "elite".

The OP isn't arguing that. He's saying that he hates that he has to do normal to do heroic in WoW and normal, nightmare and whatever else to do inferno in Diablo 3 since he thinks he's good enough to start with heroic in WoW and... don't know, Nightmare in Diablo. So this isn't an argument that there should only be one difficulty, nor is it a bash for players who only do normal or whatever, but rather it's him being unhappy that he has to do normal, heroic, nightmare etc to get to inferno and game gets stale for him doing same thing over and over to get to a difficulty suitable for him instead of being able to select it from start.

[OmniSkribe]

Just because a game is intentionally using a bad design doesn't make that design any less bad.

And why is Diablo legend??? With such poor design?

[Nonfictionless]

You are playing the wrong games if you don't like the grind. I'm not sorry but that is what mmorpgs and rpgs are like. Grinding, grinding and more grinding. I would suggest you go play this.

Hell most flash games are all about grinding.....in fact life is about grinding. Learn to love it man.

[Deleted]

The OP isn't arguing that. He's saying that he hates that he has to do normal to do heroic in WoW and normal, nightmare and whatever else to do inferno in Diablo 3 since he thinks he's good enough to start with heroic in WoW and... don't know, Nightmare in Diablo. So this isn't an argument that there should only be one difficulty, nor is it a bash for players who only do normal or whatever, but rather it's him being unhappy that he has to do normal, heroic, nightmare etc to get to inferno and game gets stale for him doing same thing over and over to get to a difficulty suitable for him instead of being able to select it from start.

The OP wasn't the one I was responding to.

[Ishu]

I always find funny when people call others lazy for not putting "effort" in a video game. You know where I put my effort? In my job. And I get rewarded for it, with money. In a video game, I *spend* my money, and I expect to get something for that money. If I have to put an effort again and do not get rewarded in any form (or get rewarded with some random item I can't care about), I just drop that game and never buy it/another of the series again.

In other words: I put in effort = I expect money/rewards. I put in money = I expect entertainment.

You get rewarded in the form of entertainment regardless if you complete the whole thing or not. If you buy a 2 hour movie and you only actually have 30 minutes spare time, would you complain that you couldn't see the whole movie? Should the producers make the movie shorter just because you don't have two hours?