[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Kyanion]

Don't you know? Taking things out of context and spinning them as negative is the preferred modus operandi when all you want is to create drama or spread disinformation anything goes, even lying. Desperate people in desperate situations do desperate things.

Yup the people defending SC have not once spun things in a positive light, created disinformation, lied or created drama on these forums. Not once. Ever.

[Rennadrel]

A link to the post https://robertsspaceindustries.com/s...re-going-home/

The full paragraph being



His twitter profile, linked from his forum handle confirms it is attributed to the right person. https://twitter.com/Neightril

That's certainly a lot more useful in providing the accurate information, rather than the bullshit that, like usual, Beazy posted. Cherry picking quotes is fucking dumb

[Beazy]

Where did you even find that image from, dude? Because like - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/s...g-home/3773124

It seems to be attributed to the wrong person (unless that's the Skelting guy?), inaccurately written (added/removed words, MASSIVE chunks of text missing with no indication), and generally, wrong and bullshit.

I just don't get it. And this is why I treat all screncapped text as bullshit until there's a source.

Again, the quote is real, you can clearly see it in the link you posted. And its not about removing content, its about the shitty engine and server having to literally remove content/asstets to fit more in. . . . it has nothing to do with removing the asteroid and putting it where it belongs when server mes.... i mean Jesus Tech, is complete.

Maybe you can point out the part that is bullshit or Inaccurate? Maybe you didn't understand what the meme is poking fun at?

[Edge-]

Again, the quote is real, you can clearly see it in the link you posted. And its not about removing content, its about the shitty engine and server having to literally remove content/asstets to fit more in. . . .

Maybe you can point out the part that is bullshit or Inaccurate?

It's real...just grossly misrepresented and incorrectly written. It's basically the same as making up a quote, because it twists his words around and intentionally removes the necessary context for what he wrote.

Removing a temporary asset no longer needed is...bad? I mean, why leave it in, anyways? If they can free up a bit of space and head off some issues that could crop up by leaving that temporary content in even longer, why is that bad?

As to the points...

"With our patch Alpha 3.12.1 we're removing the asteroid Delamar and the landing zone Levski" - is not what he wrote, but we'll ignore the change of verbatim quotes (that's not how you quote someone, FYI).

It missing this context -

Delmar, initially located in the Nyx system, will be reintroduced into its intended location when the Nyx system comes online, which means this is a temporary removal.

Which is kinda important, because content isn't actually be removed....it's being moved back to where it was always supposed to be.

"But we'll also free up memory and entities for upcoming additions to the verse." - Again, not how you quote someone at all, as it chops up his sentence with no indication that his words have been altered by someone else. And again, intentionally missing the key context -

With the removal, we will not only move Delamar to its rightful place lore-wise, but we'll also free up memory and entities for upcoming additionsl to the 'verse until we have server meshing online.

Again, important context that is intentionally removed.

This is functionally no different than making up a quote wholesale, and it's dishonest as fuck.

As I've repeatedly said throughout the thread, there is PLENTY to be skeptical about. There is PLENTY to criticize. There is PLENTY to be concerned about. But despite all that, some folks still feel the need to make some fuckin strawman bullshit up to throw some punches or something.

[Beazy]

It's real...just grossly misrepresented and incorrectly written. It's basically the same as making up a quote, because it twists his words around and intentionally removes the necessary context for what he wrote.

Removing a temporary asset no longer needed is...bad? I mean, why leave it in, anyways? If they can free up a bit of space and head off some issues that could crop up by leaving that temporary content in even longer, why is that bad?

As to the points...

"With our patch Alpha 3.12.1 we're removing the asteroid Delamar and the landing zone Levski" - is not what he wrote, but we'll ignore the change of verbatim quotes (that's not how you quote someone, FYI).

It missing this context -

Delmar, initially located in the Nyx system, will be reintroduced into its intended location when the Nyx system comes online, which means this is a temporary removal.

Which is kinda important, because content isn't actually be removed....it's being moved back to where it was always supposed to be.

"But we'll also free up memory and entities for upcoming additions to the verse." - Again, not how you quote someone at all, as it chops up his sentence with no indication that his words have been altered by someone else. And again, intentionally missing the key context -

With the removal, we will not only move Delamar to its rightful place lore-wise, but we'll also free up memory and entities for upcoming additionsl to the 'verse until we have server meshing online.

Again, important context that is intentionally removed.

This is functionally no different than making up a quote wholesale, and it's dishonest as fuck.

As I've repeatedly said throughout the thread, there is PLENTY to be skeptical about. There is PLENTY to criticize. There is PLENTY to be concerned about. But despite all that, some folks still feel the need to make some fuckin strawman bullshit up to throw some punches or something.

Again, you're focusing on the "content being removed, but dont worry, it will come back"....... it has absolutely nothing to do with the meme posted. /facepalm

[Edge-]

Again, you're focusing on the "content being removed, but dont worry, it will come back"....... it has absolutely nothing to do with the meme posted. /facepalm

Because like it or not, the misquote grossly misrepresents the content being removed and why.

And there's no indication this is purely an engine limitation, sure there's plenty of old shit left in games that they never removed, but generally removing something no longer needed is preferable as you don't know when it might come back to bite you in the ass, or it may require additional work to keep from breaking other things.

If you're getting at server meshing which is still in the works and supposedly coming at some point, why not just like...actually focus on that, and not misquote a dude and leave out the mention of server meshing altogether?

And that's not a meme either, or is literally every picture with some text on it a meme now? Is that what memes have become?

[Beazy]

And there's no indication this is purely an engine limitation

Yeah, because its totally normal to remove something from the branch and expand the resource libraries. . . . . . . until server meshing is complete of course. LoL

Do you have any idea how insanely crazy that is? SC has hit the borders of the technical limitations of their tools, and the developer literally announces it in a freakin` forum post "but we'll also free up memory and entities for upcoming additionsl to the 'verse". And I'm the one bullshitting? ? ? ?

[Easo]

Edge, be realistic - how long do you think it will take for it to come back? Knowing everything regarding SC's development process?
I am sure that not sooner than maybe, just maybe, sometime in 2022.

[Beazy]

Edge, be realistic - how long do you think it will take for it to come back? Knowing everything regarding SC's development process?
I am sure that not sooner than maybe, just maybe, sometime in 2022.

They have to get server meshing to work first.

And its not about it going or coming back, its about how its removal will allow "additions to the 'verse".

Im seriously dying to see the code for this game. Its gotta be 25million + lines.

[Edge-]

Edge, be realistic - how long do you think it will take for it to come back? Knowing everything regarding SC's development process?
I am sure that not sooner than maybe, just maybe, sometime in 2022.

You mean when will they get server meshing working? I haven't the foggiest clue as I haven't been following the development closely enough. Based on prior history...I'd still say it's quite a ways off (year[s]), but that's hardly even an "informed" opinion as I haven't checked on what, if any, updates they've given on progress for that recently.

[Xeenith]

there have got to be a problem on how they tackle this seriously....

the mesh server is supposed to have each server support 50 or so players and network together to make the whole universe as one single realm.

but not a single 50 char server is not even able to support the little there is in the game/tech demo as it is now ?
how are they ever going to make a whole galaxy with dozen/hundred of systems/planets then ?

I think they are against a wall because there is something simply very wrong on how they plan this thing.
not like the rest of the development has been stellar until now.

it's not a problem if they place this "delmar" back in the Nyx system, but until they add the Nyx system, it's a removal from the alpha, no excuse about it.

[Cyclone Jack]

On one hand, removing Delmar, which isn't supposed to be there, is fine. It was added so that those features could be tested. This ends up freeing up memory, similar to when Racing was removed, and it allows for further additions for testing, which is the point of an Alpha. If this lets them start adding the some basic content like salvage and repairs (which I can't say with a straight face since they've been removed from the roadmap for 2 years running), so that they can start testing that stuff, it would be a good change.

On the other hand, Server Meshing is still nowhere to be found, and has no date in sight.

Personally, I don't have a problem with them removing Delmar so that something else can be added, because other features of the game *do* need to be tested, and because the current state of the game is a sandbox with no meaningful content. What *is* unfortunate is that they need to fall back to this because the back-end architecture is still in such an abysmal shape.

[kenn9530]

Edge, be realistic - how long do you think it will take for it to come back? Knowing everything regarding SC's development process?
I am sure that not sooner than maybe, just maybe, sometime in 2022.

You could also be realistic in accepting that the game chris wanted to make was going to take 10 years, even a fully established studio from the beginning would struggle to make a game even remotely close to what star citizen is currently, its the only true space game being developed as nothing else even comes close to what star citizen currently offers and in the future.

[Kyanion]

You could also be realistic in accepting that the game chris wanted to make was going to take 10 years, even a fully established studio from the beginning would struggle to make a game even remotely close to what star citizen is currently, its the only true space game being developed as nothing else even comes close to what star citizen currently offers and in the future.

Because most companies aren't foolish enough to create a 'money pit' that sucks up all potential profit and never releases? And what is the game? A mmo with a 50 player server cap? Oh joy of joys.

Good thing that Kickstarter said 'Hey this will take 10+ years'. I mean we're on what year 9 now? So this game is out in 2022 or 2023? Sweet!

[Edge-]

You could also be realistic in accepting that the game chris wanted to make was going to take 10 years, even a fully established studio from the beginning would struggle to make a game even remotely close to what star citizen is currently, its the only true space game being developed as nothing else even comes close to what star citizen currently offers and in the future.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen

Nov. 2014 estimated launch?

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223...-chris-roberts

2012 interview with Roberts, who at the time wrote this -

You have stated that you expect to have an Alpha up and going in about 12 months, with a beta roughly 10 months after that and then launch. For a game of this size and scope, do you think you can really be done in the next two years?

Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale.

Which would have put it in 2015.

SQ42 itself was supposed to be out in 2014, then 2016, then delayed "indefinitely" - https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...d-indefinitely

And continues to have the beat pushed further and further back.

If we're being "realistic", we're simply accepting that timelines are meaningless and don't matter a fuck worth of a shit for this game. If we're being "realistic", we need to ignore everything the studio says about milestones and progress and accept that things can and will likely change suddenly. If we're being "realistic", then we have to accept that Chris Roberts and team grossly underestimated the challenge that they set for themselves, let it grow out of control, and are now in said situations where time doesn't matter as long as they're continuing to raise funds.

Which is like, fine and all that jazz if folks want to keep throwing money at them. But don't pretend that Chris or anyone else ever remotely indicated that this would be a decades-long+ development cycle when they were running the Kickstarter and in the early days the hard-sell for crowdfunding.

And "only true space game etc. etc." is nonsense. Firstly, you have to add the "being developed" tag because it's missing gobs of connecting features to make it into the game that it's supposed to be. Second off, that's adding tons of arbitrary requirements that would preclude other games from being "space games" because they don't have microgravity or you can't order a drink from the bartender or something.

[kenn9530]

snip

The origional game was basically freelancer 2.0 and was changed completely so any dates in the kickstarter were made irrelevant since the game was completely changed and he was more focused on the version of the game he wanted to make but didnt know how much money he could raise. Its his game and he can develop it any way he wants, i prefer the game to take longer and be done as best possible than get some half assed game that will be shelved in 100 hours gameplay.

Its a chris roberts game and we already knew what he was like at making games so if you didnt expect it to take far longer to create then you would of had unrealistic expectations, he already said on multiple occasions over the development he will not release something unless he is happy with it.

It is the only real space game around, nothing even comes close and i have played them all, it has or will have everything that actually makes a proper space game and not some game thats half decent but just lacks many things.

[Edge-]

The origional game was basically freelancer 2.0 and was changed completely so any dates in the kickstarter were made irrelevant since the game was completely changed and he was more focused on the version of the game he wanted to make but didnt know how much money he could raise. Its his game and he can develop it any way he wants, i prefer the game to take longer and be done as best possible than get some half assed game that will be shelved in 100 hours gameplay.

Its a chris roberts game and we already knew what he was like at making games so if you didnt expect it to take far longer to create then you would of had unrealistic expectations, he already said on multiple occasions over the development he will not release something unless he is happy with it.

It is the only real space game around, nothing even comes close and i have played them all, it has or will have everything that actually makes a proper space game and not some game thats half decent but just lacks many things.

This is a long way of saying, "Timelines don't matter, it's whatever Chris Roberts wants, and everything will change to meet that."

So why we even talk about timelines, or why there's even a roadmap is beyond me. Because none of it matters when this game is largely dictated by the whims of Chris Roberts and however much money folks are willing to throw at him.

Again, if folks are fine with that, cool. It's their money, and that's fine. But we don't need the song and dance about it, just an acknowledgement that these timelines kinda don't matter and that the roadmap exists to placate the community more than anything else.

And again "real space game" is an arbitrary definition.

[Jastall]

On one hand, removing Delmar, which isn't supposed to be there, is fine. It was added so that those features could be tested. This ends up freeing up memory, similar to when Racing was removed, and it allows for further additions for testing, which is the point of an Alpha. If this lets them start adding the some basic content like salvage and repairs (which I can't say with a straight face since they've been removed from the roadmap for 2 years running), so that they can start testing that stuff, it would be a good change.

On the other hand, Server Meshing is still nowhere to be found, and has no date in sight.

Personally, I don't have a problem with them removing Delmar so that something else can be added, because other features of the game *do* need to be tested, and because the current state of the game is a sandbox with no meaningful content. What *is* unfortunate is that they need to fall back to this because the back-end architecture is still in such an abysmal shape.

Yeah, the issue isn't some asteroid or something, the removal just exposes one more time the deep underlying issues with this thing. It'll be added with the new system, fair enough... when? When's the new system coming, considering the game already buckles and breaks under its own weight with a measly 50 players in one system and has done so for literal years?

I don't for a second believe in this server meshing Jesus tech that will solve everything. Nobody with a basic knowledge of coding thinks it works that way, and coding for games is very much not basic, especially games with that size and scope. The devs, I'm sure, don't think that way either, they just dangle this thing to reassure the whales (the only people who matter anymore to them) that their dream's coming true every day now, pinky promise, now please drop a couple more grands on pixel starships to make screenshots with. And if server meshing is ever implemented and ends up not solving the numerous problems, then it's going to be something else. There must always be a carrot.

Same shit CDPR's higher ups tried to sell RE Cyberpunk, on a smaller scale. Oh, don't worry, there's a Jesus day 1 patch that'll solve it. Except of course it didn't and of course they knew it wouldn't.

[1001]

Again, you're focusing on the "content being removed, but dont worry, it will come back"....... it has absolutely nothing to do with the meme posted. /facepalm

I have to agree with this. The idea that the quote is a gross misrepresentation is a bit strong in my opinion. Whoever made the meme just cut to the heart of the matter which is that they need to remove things to add new things. All the stuff about (4 years) testing and moving it to Nyx is just feel-good reasons to paint it up as less of a negative.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

They're removing more content? Again?

Still no demonstration of the supposed "server meshing prototype that was working in early 2019" or an ETA.