[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Antipathy1018]

Ok so by my time (Easten US) I asked for bets for CIG adding sever meshing to their new roadmap, and wow I am about 3 days late and come the end of Jan. they are trying to move the goalposts here is the text for as has been called their "magic tech"

iCache
Some of you may have noticed that iCache is not present as a standalone deliverable on the Roadmap. It’s still there, but it’s gotten a name change. This is because iCache and other similar technologies are now wrapped up within the Persistent Streaming & Server Meshing deliverable mentioned above. In addition, we have removed the Convert Legacy Data Management to iCache from the Release View as there are pending dependencies involved in the work for this. This means the fruits of these efforts won't be seen until later on in the year

I am not surprised no one took my bet over a week ago. Those that support SC knew it was a losing bet and those that see how they miss deadlines (of their own making) knew it was not worth betting.

But who could guess that CIG would move their own goalposts?

I know Kenn and Mr. Ando will try to defend this but how can they keep trying to shift their positions when CIG is working against them?

Edit: Replaced an r with a n for US Eastern time zone

[kenn9530]

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CiG can do whatever they need to do with the development of the game, they dont have enough staff plain and simple and they are constantly hiring, there is only so much work each person can do, they have stated it many times that if something needs to be moved it will be moved.

With any game in development its impossible to achieve everything you want, it happens in every single gaming company because its impossble to achieve every goal you are set, you just dont see it all the time because development is usually kept behind closed doors.

[Kyanion]

But who could guess that CIG would move their own goalposts?

I know Kenn and Mr. Ando will try to defend this but how can they keep trying to shift their positions when CIG is working against them?

CiG can do whatever they need to do with the development of the game, they dont have enough staff plain and simple and they are constantly hiring, there is only so much work each person can do, they have stated it many times that if something needs to be moved it will be moved.

Sure they can do whatever they want while missing deadlines, ignoring their own roadmaps, changing things on a whim and continuing to somehow fail upward and make money. It really is something amazing.

[Thestrawman]

CiG can do whatever they need to do with the development of the game, they dont have enough staff plain and simple and they are constantly hiring, there is only so much work each person can do, they have stated it many times that if something needs to be moved it will be moved.

With any game in development its impossible to achieve everything you want, it happens in every single gaming company because its impossble to achieve every goal you are set, you just dont see it all the time because development is usually kept behind closed doors.

Oh yeah, it's not like the key tech needed for the entire game to work is currently vaporware 9 years into development. They can take as many years as it takes because the alternative is no game at all.

I know streaming numbers have been brought up a few dozen times before so I decided to look. At 8pm EST on a Saturday there are... 1.3k viewers and the highest channel has 263 viewers. So impressive.

[1001]

Elite Dangerous generated funds vs Star Citizen generated funds

I would also be very curious to see where you have got Elite's generated funds. They don't disclose each game's income in their financials so I can only think of one place you are pulling these numbers from.

The other side here is that if Elite has generated less it has also cost less to produce and yet it has 3.5x as many paying backers, so is clearly doing something right.

[Gorsameth]

CiG can do whatever they need to do with the development of the game, they dont have enough staff plain and simple and they are constantly hiring, there is only so much work each person can do, they have stated it many times that if something needs to be moved it will be moved.

With any game in development its impossible to achieve everything you want, it happens in every single gaming company because its impossble to achieve every goal you are set, you just dont see it all the time because development is usually kept behind closed doors.

When the thing that is proving impossible to achieve is the key tech that your entire future rests upon that is a tiny bit of a problem.

Nor is it the backers fault if CIG bit off more then they can chew and don't have the personal to do what they promised. That is yet another instance of bad management

[masterblaster0]

HAhaha, thats golden, you complain that CIG doesnt hit the goals they set, and when they do, they are slow, and it took the entire time to just do one thing.

Once again, you are trying to make an issue where there was none. You are just here to cause fights as opposed to partake in civil discourse.

You compare your guesstimate of how long SC takes with an Unknown of a differen company. Its not Besides the point. You spout uninformed nonsense.

It is besides the point. I was expressing that sometimes less is more because it allows developers to move onto other tasks. That was the point.

You are repeatedly trying to make arguments from nothing either due to not understanding the conversation or because you are trying to initiate conflict.

Sources for my Opinions? I´m the source of my Opinion. Go ahead say where I stated anything as fact, and I´ll gladly provide a source for that.
I´m just here questioning the bullshit people say.

Misunderstanding what is being said. Leaping to conclusions, being aggressive and rude while being accusatory on the back of ill-formed opinions, more like.

No, you cant answer the Question why you compare apples with oranges, because there is no sane reason to do so.

Once again, reading far too much into it. Solely with the intention to be argumentative.

Just Trolling, got it.

Projection, got it.

And as I said: Maybe the goal is not to have a larger source of Income. This is not EA.

And again, completely misunderstanding the point of the discussion.

Also, in my Opinion, a larger playerbase is not always a healthier game population.

For longevity, a larger player base is important.

Reading Comprehension, I was guessing what MrAnderson meant. And calculating the Earnings from Sales is quite Easy, I outlined it for you. If you really want to compare it, for whatever reason.

Reading comprehension. If you want to demand sources for inconsequential points and hypothetical examples then see how you like being asked for sources. That was the point duh.
What is up with the random capitalization?

Its entirely sufficient to take the Highest Price ED sold, and multiply it with the sales you so graciously provided. And unless these 3,5 Million Players did not spend 100$ for ED, it wouldnt have earned more than SC. Simple as that.

Entirely sufficient? No.
For what duration was Elite Dangerous sold for full price? For what duration was the Horizons expansion sold for full price? What was the upsell ratio from base game to expansion? How much income has been made from microtransactions? Etcetera. A simple matter this is not.

[kenn9530]

When the thing that is proving impossible to achieve is the key tech that your entire future rests upon that is a tiny bit of a problem.

Nor is it the backers fault if CIG bit off more then they can chew and don't have the personal to do what they promised. That is yet another instance of bad management

How is it proving impossible to achieve, you do realise its just one part in many different things that combine into one another, its not just one thing that will solve everything, there are multiple things that have to be inplace before even server meshing can be implemented so. Server meshing is not this so called jesus tech that you claim it is, its just another step in many that all work in tandom with one another.

How is it bad management to have not have enough staff while they are always recruiting, there are only so much staff to hire in certain areas so if there is not enough applicants there is not much more they can do.

[MrAnderson]

I would also be very curious to see where you have got Elite's generated funds. They don't disclose each game's income in their financials so I can only think of one place you are pulling these numbers from.

The other side here is that if Elite has generated less it has also cost less to produce and yet it has 3.5x as many paying backers, so is clearly doing something right.

You should know by now that I'm pretty adamant in sticking to the facts and don't go around making stuff up like some other posters. ::winkwink::

By the companies own CFO Elite Dangerous "generated more than £100m of revenue". CIG's funding tracker is at ~£250m right about now.

Speaking of facts, you can't possible know exactly how much Elite has costed to produce & maintain, considering the fact that it's development started in 1997 earning it the Guinness World Record of "The Longest Development Period for a Simulation Game" and it needs to conform to 3 different platforms.

Elite doesn't have "3.5x as many paying backers", it sold to 3.5x more people. Which isn't really a feat considering that the game has devalued so much that they had to sell it for a couple of bucks and even give it away for free in hopes of pushing their Freemium model of selling cosmetics.

As for Star Citizen gameplay news the Dynamic Event testing is ongoing and improving with every patch. The even consists collecting supply's to re-fuel a capital ship stationed at a Military base close by while it's being attacked by "bad guys". When you collect enough supply's the Capital Ship activates and helps attacking the enemies. Video below:

[Kyanion]

Speaking of facts, you can't possible know exactly how much Elite has costed to produce & maintain, considering the fact that it's development started in 1997 earning it the Guinness World Record of "The Longest Development Period for a Simulation Game"

Star Citizen: Hold my beer.

Can't say I know much about Elite, but from what I understand based on Wiki it was conceived in '98 and Kickstarted in 2012 and finished in 2014. So sure overall that would be 16 years but it seems like 2012 is what most people would focus on. I dunno why it matters though. If we're talking SC it went into pre-production in 2010 and here we are 11 years later with the game far far away from being done. So...yay on SC passing up this world record in the future?

[kenn9530]

Star Citizen: Hold my beer.

Can't say I know much about Elite, but from what I understand based on Wiki it was conceived in '98 and Kickstarted in 2012 and finished in 2014. So sure overall that would be 16 years but it seems like 2012 is what most people would focus on. I dunno why it matters though. If we're talking SC it went into pre-production in 2010 and here we are 11 years later with the game far far away from being done. So...yay on SC passing up this world record in the future?

You enjoy ignoring the simple main fact that CiG had to be built from the ground up from nothing, that alone will make the development of a game go much slower due to not having staff or facilities to actually do things for the game, you seem to expect them to pump out things as fast as a company with 2-3 times more staff while making a far more complex game.

Pre production is not included in development or other games would have to add years onto how long it actually took to make, no real progress was made on development for star citizen until well after the kickstarter and they actually had some staff.

Your expectations are absolutely ridiculous in was you expect.

[Kyanion]

You enjoy ignoring the simple main fact that CiG had to be built from the ground up from nothing, that alone will make the development of a game go much slower due to not having staff or facilities to actually do things for the game, you seem to expect them to pump out things as fast as a company with 2-3 times more staff while making a far more complex game.

Hey they are the ones to blame for letting feature creep get the better of them, no one else. Sorry, this does not excuse 9+ years of failure. I expected them to meet the multiple dates they put out, they missed ALL of them.

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Your expectations are absolutely ridiculous in was you expect.

I expect them to break some world records for ineptitude, longest game in development hell and biggest money pit seen in gaming in years. They are WELL on track for that.

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Pre production is not included in development or other games would have to add years onto how long it actually took to make, no real progress was made on development for star citizen until well after the kickstarter and they actually had some staff.

Wouldn't that be the same case for Elite then? It didn't start counting until the Kickstarter?

[kenn9530]

Hey they are the ones to blame for letting feature creep get the better of them, no one else. Sorry, this does not excuse 9+ years of failure. I expected them to meet the multiple dates they put out, they missed ALL of them.

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I expect them to break some world records for ineptitude, longest game in development hell and biggest money pit seen in gaming in years. They are WELL on track for that.

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Wouldn't that be the same case for Elite then? It didn't start counting until the Kickstarter?

No company ever meets all its dates it sets itself and no they didnt miss all of them thats just a fact. All you are doing is moaning about things that happen in every company that makes games but it all happens behind closed doors and you dont see the fruits of all the labour until the game is just being polished.

Companies always set above and beyond targets to try and get as much done as possible.

Elite dangerous had a previous game and a company already setup and had been actively developing the game prior to the kickstarter since it had actual staff to work on it, CiG went in not knowing if they would even raise enough money to even make the game to begin with or if it would have enough interest to get off the ground.

[Kyanion]

No company ever meets all its dates it sets itself and no they didnt miss all of them thats just a fact. All you are doing is moaning about things that happen in every company that makes games but it all happens behind closed doors and you dont see the fruits of all the labour until the game is just being polished.

When it comes to SC it is a FACT they missed EVERY date they set for this game. They didn't have to set these dates, they chose to set them and then failed to meet them. Why do you think they no longer put out dates and instead use roadmaps. Nevermind the fact that they suck at using those roadmaps as well...

No company ever meets all its dates? I dunno about all that, but they sure as hell don't ALWAYS miss them ALL. Again, SC CHOSE the feature creep route and has failed to release the game after how many years now? Come on kenn, when was the kickstarter and what year is it now?

[kenn9530]

When it comes to SC it is a FACT they missed EVERY date they set for this game. They didn't have to set these dates, they chose to set them and then failed to meet them. Why do you think they no longer put out dates and instead use roadmaps. Nevermind the fact that they suck at using those roadmaps as well...

No company ever meets all its dates? I dunno about all that, but they sure as hell don't ALWAYS miss them ALL. Again, SC CHOSE the feature creep route and has failed to release the game after how many years now? Come on kenn, when was the kickstarter and what year is it now?

You seem to lack the understanding of what an actual fact is, CiG has released plenty of features and such in the timeframe they wanted to get it out by so missing every single target they set themselves is factually wrong by miles. For several years now they have always released a PU patch in the timeframe they have set themselves so that alone provides evidence on you being completely wrong.

The game evolved after the kickstarter and changed into something completely different as thats what the community wanted, its better to wait 10 years for the actual game you really want rather than get something lesser.

Your main complaint against CiG is just what happens in all areas of normal business anyway, its impossible to meet every single target a company sets iteself, they always overestimate.

[Kyanion]

You seem to lack the understanding of what an actual fact is, CiG has released plenty of features and such in the timeframe they wanted to get it out by so missing every single target they set themselves is factually wrong by miles. For several years now they have always released a PU patch in the timeframe they have set themselves so that alone provides evidence on you being completely wrong.

The game evolved after the kickstarter and changed into something completely different as thats what the community wanted, its better to wait 10 years for the actual game you really want rather than get something lesser.

Your main complaint against CiG is just what happens in all areas of normal business anyway, its impossible to meet every single target a company sets iteself, they always overestimate.

Oh sure they sure hit those 'The game will release in X year' targets. What was it again? 2014? 2015? 2016? Etc. Sorry, some minor feature isn't what we're talking about and you know that.

Again, we're not talking about 'normal business' either. We're talking about a Kickstarted game who touted its transparency. Again, you know this as well.

[kenn9530]

Oh sure they sure hit those 'The game will release in X year' targets. What was it again? 2014? 2015? 2016? Etc. Sorry, some minor feature isn't what we're talking about and you know that.

Again, we're not talking about 'normal business' either. We're talking about a Kickstarted game who touted its transparency. Again, you know this as well.

They never said the game was going to release at any date beyond what the kickstarter said and when the game changed that dates was made irrelevant, any dates actually said were rough guidelines and when a game is that early in development it was going to change anyway especially when new techs and such were made.

You do know why most game companies dont let you follow development, its because things change all the time and major changes like making the story mode differently to include extra features developed within the game.

CiG is no different to any other company, they hit certain targets and miss targets just like any other but you seem to only single them out when you dont even care about playing the game at all.

[Kyanion]

They never said the game was going to release at any date beyond what the kickstarter said

Lol! Bullshit!

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and when the game changed that dates was made irrelevant, any dates actually said were rough guidelines and when a game is that early in development it was going to change anyway especially when new techs and such were made.

Disclaimer: Any dates said don't matter because they were just guidelines. CiG can do no wrong.

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You do know why most game companies dont let you follow development, its because things change all the time and major changes like making the story mode differently to include extra features developed within the game.

No. Really? It is almost like they did it because of Kickstarter and choosing to take that route so they could get more funding. What a shock.

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CiG is no different to any other company, they hit certain targets and miss targets just like any other but you seem to only single them out when you dont even care about playing the game at all.

Sure, no different. They aren't a company that has been funded by Kickstarter and 'donations'. Just like any other company. Yup!

[Cracked]

They never said the game was going to release at any date beyond what the kickstarter said and when the game changed that dates was made irrelevant, any dates actually said were rough guidelines and when a game is that early in development it was going to change anyway especially when new techs and such were made.

You do know why most game companies dont let you follow development, its because things change all the time and major changes like making the story mode differently to include extra features developed within the game.

CiG is no different to any other company, they hit certain targets and miss targets just like any other but you seem to only single them out when you dont even care about playing the game at all.

You know, when I took my first class of game development back at university, one of the industry guys who came to lecture for us said something that really stuck with me to this day..

How does a game become delayed by years? One day at a time.

Not holding CIG to any kind of deadline is just setting yourself up for failure in the future. And they are setting themselves up too.

[kenn9530]

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Whats BS is what you seem to think is the actual truth when it is not, they have never actually gave an actual release date plain and simple, the kickstarter one was made irrelevant due to it being impossible to make the new version of the game when it was doubled in size.

CiG have also stated many times they will never release something if they are not happy with it and have no problems pushing things back if they dont operate properly.

A company will operate the same as any other regardless of where the money comes from, they have also raised a large amount of outside investment so they are not completely dependant on donations, along with the company making millions each year that has nothing to do with donations.

You seem to just hate CiG for some reason as you have already stated you have no interest in the game and wouldnt even play it if given for free.

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When developing a game the company doesnt know if its going to take 6 years or if it will take 10 years, its just impossible to know what happens along the development, they may give a rough timeline but cant just claim it will be ready by this date.

Star Citizen when it was changed was always going to be a 10 year project plain and simple, the game was just to large scale for it to take any less time, even a massive company like rockstar takes 8 years for RDR2 and some ppl expect star citizen to take less with a fraction of the staff.

Dont have unrealistic expectations and you wont dissappoint yourself.

Star Citizen is going great and its delivering at a reasonable pace of what we are actually expecting from it.