[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Trifle]

I mean, while I despise any kind of mobile/gacha games and think it's art style ridiculous I would never feel the need to go to the Genshin Thread and tell it's players they are all idiots for playing it or try to silence those who enjoy discussing about whatever new item they come up with to sell more loot boxes to kids.

Wtf? I get that art is subjective, but I find the art and music to be so well done that this take really surprises me.

[Proskill]

Ballistic weapons were buffed for damage but reduced in ammo so I'm now going full energy weapons so that I don't have to keep going back to the station to rearm.
I go with full fixed setup with Size 3 CF-Panthers for the wings and Size 4 CF-Rhino for the nose.

ballistic weapons still suck. 250 rounds for the default gatling gun on titan is a single VLRT mission with my tracking skills and poor PC performance. inb4 ballistic guns are made for pvp, not pve. yeah, i know, but i thought ammo count will get increased after 3.14.

anyway, nothing better out there than the default power plant and coolers? especially for energy repeaters? i still dont know how to do the loadout myself, what to look for etc.

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bought some ship equipment in port olisar, then moved to hur l5 to buy some more there, and then finally to hur l2 where i wanted to equip them all at once just to find out all of the assets stay in station they were bought in.
its an inconvienience im actually happy for.

but holy shit, starmap is such an abomination. they could rework the thing that all of the players use at every moment of the gameplay. its absolutely atrocious, and its in the same state since i first booted up star citizen in april 2019

[MrAnderson]

Maybe you should take a look at yourself lol. Your post wasn't informative it was dismissive.

Well it's a pity you think that way. I believe you're letting your emotions getting in the way though as there's clearly pertinent information in them and that I make the effort to give visual examples of what's stated.

I think you're still too invested in being angry and "fighting a war" that you'll never win, because it's mostly happening in your head. When one becomes so adamant in picking fights that posting cool screenshots or videos about a game in the it's own thread is seen as a bad thing or that pointing out incorrect information or adding new one is "defending/attacking" the poster/game then one is not really interested in gaming anymore. Just looking for reasons to pick fights.

No the Genshin Impact thread doesn't because they don't have people constantly lying out thier asses.

I envy them, less time going in circles about meaningless stuff or wasting time correcting the same misconceptions for the 100th time and more actual gaming discussion.

As far as my posts "tricking people into buying Star Citizen" I think you're really really giving them too much credit but if you're so bothered with them I'd say you're best option would be to use the ignore button. When you're ready to talk about gaming, play strategies, loadouts, future updates etc I'll be glad to engage, I'm sure deep down all that rancour there's a gamer willing enjoy the good sides of gaming.

The irony of him attacking Genshin's gacha model (which I hate too) is funny when he then tries to not mention the insane cost of ships in a game that in many cases aren't even IN the game yet or are bugged beyond belief or the things the ships are FOR aren't in the game yet.

There's quite a difference between the gacha/mobile model (loot boxes aka gambling) and the crowdfunding.

There's a reason why Belgium banned such games and other countries are tightening up the rules about them and their accessibility to children.
For perspective, Genshin Impact generated 2$Billions in it's first year alone.

Wtf? I get that art is subjective, but I find the art and music to be so well done that this take really surprises me.

I should've been more specific, I was referring to the anime art style of the characters not the game world which is really well made.

ballistic weapons still suck. 250 rounds for the default gatling gun on titan is a single VLRT mission with my tracking skills and poor PC performance. inb4 ballistic guns are made for pvp, not pve. yeah, i know, but i thought ammo count will get increased after 3.14.

anyway, nothing better out there than the default power plant and coolers? especially for energy repeaters? i still dont know how to do the loadout myself, what to look for etc.

- - - Updated - - -

bought some ship equipment in port olisar, then moved to hur l5 to buy some more there, and then finally to hur l2 where i wanted to equip them all at once just to find out all of the assets stay in station they were bought in.
its an inconvienience im actually happy for.

but holy shit, starmap is such an abomination. they could rework the thing that all of the players use at every moment of the gameplay. its absolutely atrocious, and its in the same state since i first booted up star citizen in april 2019

The items were shown in the setup image I posted before:

You can find all items in https://finder.cornerstonebase.space/ which is Star Citizen's WoWhead.

Yeah ballistic still suck now for PVE, and even for PVP if you get into long skirmishes and tanky ships. Starmap indeed is due to a reform, it's probably the most outdated feature ingame right now. I think it's been mostly untouched since the PU released.

About procedural generation talk:
I think mostly everyone is right and wrong in their own way. The back and forth is because they're talking about the same subject but about different things.
Mixing the act of artists using tools with procedural algorithms to generate terrain for example. To "seeds" that generate their game worlds automatically based on math parameters.

Games rely heavily procedural generation are easy to spot because of the numbers. If a game has "infinite" "billions" "millions
of anything (worlds, creatures, weapons etc). It's using procedural generation to make them. Doesn't mean the assets used to compose them weren't hand crafted. Just that a procedural algorithm was used to generate and assemble them automatically within a set pre-defined parameters.

Diablo used procedural generation to randomize it's map and dungeons. Minecraft and Valheim do it to generate their worlds. The most recent examples came with space exploration games. NMS and Elite. Using math to generate billions of combinations of a set of assets. Creating planets generated with an algorithm to explore without having the game occupying thousands of gigs in size. NMS when released on Steam was like only 2GB in size but only 300mb was the code to generate the universe, the rest was Audio the UI.

[Proskill]

The items were shown in the setup image I posted before:

thats what i mean. endurance and bracers are default titan modules. isnt there anything better that i can upgrade to?

[MrAnderson]

thats what i mean. endurance and bracers are default titan modules. isnt there anything better that i can upgrade to?

Besides the weapons I don't think anything else is really is worth the change in PVE. Maybe change the QuantumDrive for the Atlas or Voyage for faster travelling between tween targets. You've already know it but erkul.games is the right tool if you're into the min-max thing.

[Proskill]

Besides the weapons I don't think anything else is really is worth the change in PVE. Maybe change the QuantumDrive for the Atlas or Voyage for faster travelling between tween targets. You've already know it but erkul.games is the right tool if you're into the min-max thing.

ive got atlas. ive changed everything except for the power plant and coolers. thanks anyway.

and i gotta say im loving the atmospheric bounties. its nice to fly in different environments and seeing something else beside dark vastness of space and asteroids.

[qwerty123456]

Well it's a pity you think that way. I believe you're letting your emotions getting in the way though as there's clearly pertinent information in them and that I make the effort to give visual examples of what's stated.

I think you're still too invested in being angry and "fighting a war" that you'll never win, because it's mostly happening in your head. When one becomes so adamant in picking fights that posting cool screenshots or videos about a game in the it's own thread is seen as a bad thing or that pointing out incorrect information or adding new one is "defending/attacking" the poster/game then one is not really interested in gaming anymore. Just looking for reasons to pick fights.



I envy them, less time going in circles about meaningless stuff or wasting time correcting the same misconceptions for the 100th time and more actual gaming discussion.

As far as my posts "tricking people into buying Star Citizen" I think you're really really giving them too much credit but if you're so bothered with them I'd say you're best option would be to use the ignore button. When you're ready to talk about gaming, play strategies, loadouts, future updates etc I'll be glad to engage, I'm sure deep down all that rancour there's a gamer willing enjoy the good sides of gaming.



There's quite a difference between the gacha/mobile model (loot boxes aka gambling) and the crowdfunding.

There's a reason why Belgium banned such games and other countries are tightening up the rules about them and their accessibility to children.
For perspective, Genshin Impact generated 2$Billions in it's first year alone.



I should've been more specific, I was referring to the anime art style of the characters not the game world which is really well made.

How is dismissing someones entire post being informative? Its funny how you keep bringing emotion into it when you cant say a single bad thing about the game.

Again you try to dismiss and insult instead of actually responding. It just shows how correct I am.

Proskill bought the game because of you. You seriously don't think anyone else did? Atleast he likes it still I wonder if we search through the thread how many people bought the game and regret it?

Yes theres a difference between gacha delivering the products they sell (in a shitty lottery system) and selling people products then not delivering them for years on end while you sell other products. https://kotaku.com/star-citizen-gets...hat-1847635638 Hmmm....... I wonder how you spin this? "It doesn't count cause its one agency and not a whole country!" "They are ignorant and don't understand anything!"

Genshin Impact generated 2 Billion from a fuck ton of more players than Star Citizen has too. Should we check twitch numbers to see which is more popular again?


So you hate an entire art style? Just curious but why?

[MrAnderson]

How is dismissing someones entire post being informative? Its funny how you keep bringing emotion into it when you cant say a single bad thing about the game.
Again you try to dismiss and insult instead of actually responding. It just shows how correct I am.
Proskill bought the game because of you. You seriously don't think anyone else did? Atleast he likes it still I wonder if we search through the thread how many people bought the game and regret it?
Yes theres a difference between gacha delivering the products they sell (in a shitty lottery system) and selling people products then not delivering them for years on end while you sell other products. https://kotaku.com/star-citizen-gets...hat-1847635638 Hmmm....... I wonder how you spin this? "It doesn't count cause its one agency and not a whole country!" "They are ignorant and don't understand anything!"
Genshin Impact generated 2 Billion from a fuck ton of more players than Star Citizen has too. Should we check twitch numbers to see which is more popular again?
So you hate an entire art style? Just curious but why?

We already been there.

Had to go back to understand what you were referring to. That post was so out of wack that I felt it was best ignored as the poster clearly was in a altered emotional state at that time. His post went from straight to the insults and then a long tirade of judgment about things he clearly had no clue about. When on mobile and at work some posters aren't really worthy the reply.

I'm in no way obliged to waste time with people I feel not worthy, although I sometimes make exceptions. Besides, Val did a pretty good job in obliging the poster with the information he needed and he happily went about his day. Somehow you got offended in his place, because again, emotions and all that.

I didn't knew @Proskill bought the game because of me? Can we get a confirmation? Anyone else? Any regrets?

Not sure what you want me to spin of that kotaku article or how it relates with Gacha tactics? Some bright chap who somehow had troubles understanding the meaning of the word "Concept" sent an email to some UK entity complaining that said word wasn't enough understand the meaning of concept. Entity reported it to CIG who then added a few more words. Riveting stuff.

Yes free-2-play gacha/mobile games will always be more popular than space sim games for obvious reasons.
Kinda like how Hamburgers will always be more popular than Caviar.

So you hate an entire art style? Just curious but why?

I don't hate it. Being more into realism/sims/gritty games the juvenile stuff isn't that appealing.

ive got atlas. ive changed everything except for the power plant and coolers. thanks anyway.

and i gotta say im loving the atmospheric bounties. its nice to fly in different environments and seeing something else beside dark vastness of space and asteroids.

Yeah atmospheric bounties do bring a nice change of scenery, except when they are in the darkside of the planet and you forget to check the altimeter. :]

[Proskill]

I didn't knew @Proskill bought the game because of me? Can we get a confirmation? Anyone else? Any regrets?

nah, i didnt buy the game because of anyone on this forum or any other for that matter.
i think i first bought the game then joined this thread, or maybe asked a few questions before buying on how to buy etc
cant remember, but im sure some ppl can go back to my first posts in this thread no problem

anyway, i joined star citizen community (2019) when the game was already quite controversial, so i knew what i was getting into. because of that im cool-headed about it and have a different point of view at it, but i can totally understand why old time backers are dissapointed with it it if not 'betrayed'. i mean, im also not getting that which was promised xddd

i still like to think about star citizen as the 'ultimate MMO' for me. great graphics, first person perspective, economy like in EVE Online etc etc.
still a lot must come to fruition first, but im patient, and try to enjoy what is out there already released to the public.

i know politicians are liars, i know game devs are liars, but i want to believe that SC funding method, not being dependant on investors and time constraints, will make for a truly unique and well developed game in the end, no matter how long it will take.

[qwerty123456]

We already been there.



I'm in no way obliged to waste time with people I feel not worthy, although I sometimes make exceptions. Besides, Val did a pretty good job in obliging the poster with the information he needed and he happily went about his day. Somehow you got offended in his place, because again, emotions and all that.

I didn't knew @Proskill bought the game because of me? Can we get a confirmation? Anyone else? Any regrets?

Not sure what you want me to spin of that kotaku article or how it relates with Gacha tactics? Some bright chap who somehow had troubles understanding the meaning of the word "Concept" sent an email to some UK entity complaining that said word wasn't enough understand the meaning of concept. Entity reported it to CIG who then added a few more words. Riveting stuff.

Yes free-2-play gacha/mobile games will always be more popular than space sim games for obvious reasons.
Kinda like how Hamburgers will always be more popular than Caviar.


I don't hate it. Being more into realism/sims/gritty games the juvenile stuff isn't that appealing.

There was no altered emotional state. You just claim emotion anytime someone has a criticism and yet you have been banned tons of time for getting emotional "defending" the game. You do properly defend the actual facts sometimes but the majority of the time you just insult people or try changing topics and ignoring it if its something you have absolutely no defense for. And again I ask you why couldn't you come up with anything to say bad about the game? There are plenty of things that anyone but a fanatic could complain about like server size, maybe a ship you bought 5 years ago that never came out, or just different types of bugs that either end up getting you killed or that just ruin your immersive experience and yet you couldn't. You and I both know the game is far from perfect and yet you love everything. Whose the real person being emotional here? I thought you were different from Ken and could actually be reasoned with instead of just responding "no lol thats not true whats in my head is true" so this will be my last post on the mattter.

I'm wrong about Proskill. Just looked and he's been posting far longer than I thought. I thought he was the person who I wanna say was posting afew months ago? ?
I assumed it was him since he usually has a lot of different questions about the game. My bad.

Lol I knew you would try and spin it in CIGS defense.
They wouldn't have changed anything if there wasn't anything wrong with it.

Calling an artstyle juvenile while playing videogames... Ok lol. Also there are plenty of Anime/hentai that are Adult only with Mature themes.

Also off topic but anyone ever have problems replying here? I just had a bug or something where my cursor text line was behind the letter I was typing and other weird shit. Seems fine now in my edit of the post.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

anyone ever have problems replying here? I just had a bug or something where my cursor text line was behind the letter I was typing and other weird shit. Seems fine now in my edit of the post.

I don't recall having seen it happen on MMO-C before, but I have seen it happen when replying on other internet forums.

[Proskill]

I'm wrong about Proskill. Just looked and he's been posting far longer than I thought. I thought he was the person who I wanna say was posting afew months ago? ?

thats probably me, because i really just started playing SC in july 2021 during 3.13 patch which also didnt last long because until august when i lost a couple of million aUEC due to a bug when saving up for 600i and got pissed, and shortly after that CiG announced they want to wipe progression in 3.15 so i stopped playing altogether.
now im back. wonder how long it will last.

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is it still the same case as in 3.14, where every cannon for example has the same range, ammo speed etc etc? same for other modules like shields?
i thought this was only for that specific time period during 3.14 testing

looking at m7a and omnisky XV they both got same statistics. alpha dmg, speed, range, firerate. they are literally the same

[kenn9530]

thats probably me, because i really just started playing SC in july 2021 during 3.13 patch which also didnt last long because until august when i lost a couple of million aUEC due to a bug when saving up for 600i and got pissed, and shortly after that CiG announced they want to wipe progression in 3.15 so i stopped playing altogether.
now im back. wonder how long it will last.

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is it still the same case as in 3.14, where every cannon for example has the same range, ammo speed etc etc? same for other modules like shields?
i thought this was only for that specific time period during 3.14 testing

looking at m7a and omnisky XV they both got same statistics. alpha dmg, speed, range, firerate. they are literally the same

Equipment balancing is always an ongoing thing, they made each weapon type mostly equal in a recent patch so you can just pick the weapon type you like the best, unless you have somewhere close to resupply whenever you want then balastic weapons dont make much sense for solo play at least, i would rather do less damage and have unlimited ammo than have to resupply often, in the future im sure you will be able to store extra ammo and manually load it into the magazines on larger ships.

[MrAnderson]

There was no altered emotional state. You just claim emotion anytime someone has a criticism and yet you have been banned tons of time for getting emotional "defending" the game. You do properly defend the actual facts sometimes but the majority of the time you just insult people or try changing topics and ignoring it if its something you have absolutely no defense for. And again I ask you why couldn't you come up with anything to say bad about the game? There are plenty of things that anyone but a fanatic could complain about like server size, maybe a ship you bought 5 years ago that never came out, or just different types of bugs that either end up getting you killed or that just ruin your immersive experience and yet you couldn't. You and I both know the game is far from perfect and yet you love everything. Whose the real person being emotional here? I thought you were different from Ken and could actually be reasoned with instead of just responding "no lol thats not true whats in my head is true" so this will be my last post on the mattter.

I'm wrong about Proskill. Just looked and he's been posting far longer than I thought. I thought he was the person who I wanna say was posting afew months ago? ?
I assumed it was him since he usually has a lot of different questions about the game. My bad.

Lol I knew you would try and spin it in CIGS defense.
They wouldn't have changed anything if there wasn't anything wrong with it.

Calling an artstyle juvenile while playing videogames... Ok lol. Also there are plenty of Anime/hentai that are Adult only with Mature themes.

Also off topic but anyone ever have problems replying here? I just had a bug or something where my cursor text line was behind the letter I was typing and other weird shit. Seems fine now in my edit of the post.

Well emotional or not you need to realise that there's no point in trying to shame or blame someone from posting positive things about the game they like. I accept the whole project of Star Citizen like I accept all crowdfunded games and all that they entail. I'm a backer since 2013 after all. Delays, bugs all it's warts haven't phase me for a long time now, I can understand how it can phase new backers or the people looking from the sidelines and reading the clickbait headlines of the mainstream gaming news but doesn't mean I need to feel bad for correcting misinformation when feel it's worthy or posting videos I find cool.

With that said I agree and for me this issue needs no more back and forth.

So, Patch 3.16.1 is up so there goes 2 refinery works down the drain, was mostly low value rocks but still... Well, back to bounty hunting pew pew.

[zysis]

you dont understand what they are actually developing and how the server system will work in SC

I don't think you understand the tech at all. If you had, you would certainly not be declaring that a game can do it when the technology simply cannot. Having such a massive playfield for many players presents problems not only with software, but hardware also. This is the part where your tiny mind tries to make up things that simply cannot exist. I have first hand knowledge of both tech and software, thus as an investor I'm easily able to dismiss such musings from a game company to be either willfully ignorant or scamming their investors. YOU are one of them. Even when someone with 28 years in gaming tells you that it isn't possible, you refuse to believe it. The company might just wait for a tech breakthrough, but I doubt the breakthroughs they require are even possible given how simplistic our current technology is in regard to the demands such a game would require.

In summary; you are quite ignorant and quite well the perfect sucker for such a Ponzi scam to continue working.

[kenn9530]

I don't think you understand the tech at all. If you had, you would certainly not be declaring that a game can do it when the technology simply cannot. Having such a massive playfield for many players presents problems not only with software, but hardware also. This is the part where your tiny mind tries to make up things that simply cannot exist. I have first hand knowledge of both tech and software, thus as an investor I'm easily able to dismiss such musings from a game company to be either willfully ignorant or scamming their investors. YOU are one of them. Even when someone with 28 years in gaming tells you that it isn't possible, you refuse to believe it. The company might just wait for a tech breakthrough, but I doubt the breakthroughs they require are even possible given how simplistic our current technology is in regard to the demands such a game would require.

In summary; you are quite ignorant and quite well the perfect sucker for such a Ponzi scam to continue working.

You are the one who is ignorant and understands nothing about game development, im going to go with several hundered developers over a random poster on MMO champ with what can and cant be done, the tech already exists to allow thousands of players to play with each other as it stands now, the system CiG want to use just goes the next step further than that and they will use the old system as a stepping stone before hand, so i do know whats going on with the game when you clearly dont.

[Calfredd]

You are the one who is ignorant and understands nothing about game development, im going to go with several hundered developers over a random poster on MMO champ with what can and cant be done, the tech already exists to allow thousands of players to play with each other as it stands now,

For other games yes. Star Citizen, however, is still stuck a 50 per server.

[Kyanion]

the tech already exists to allow thousands of players to play with each other as it stands now

The biggest fucking lie you've ever told. Server cap is FIFTY.

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the system CiG want to use just goes the next step further than that and they will use the old system as a stepping stone before hand

Yeah the system they WANT to use they don't have. It does not exist for them.

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so i do know whats going on with the game when you clearly dont.

Show us thousands of people on the same server if you know what is going on. We'll wait.

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the tech already exists to allow thousands of players to play with each other as it stands now, the system CiG want to use just goes the next step further than that and they will use the old system as a stepping stone before hand, so i do know whats going on with the game when you clearly dont.

wasting time correcting the same misconceptions

Want to step in and correct your bud there?

[Shakzor]

Inb4 "it technically allows however many, but can't handle more than 50,so i'm correct" or some similar excuse...

[MrAnderson]

Want to step in and correct your bud there?

The way I read it, and I can be mistaken, Ken statement
"tech already exists to allow thousands of players to play with each other" refers to network technology in general.
As in, that "problem" as been solved already in the industry.

The thing is, the problem CIG is trying to solve has some extra requirements that other games going for massive ammount of players don't have, so it's more complex to achieve:

Namely:

Big ass map
No loading Screens
High Fidelity Graphics
Heavy Physics Calculations
FPS Fast Twitch Gameplay

As for CIG way to deal with those requirements the only option is to built it from scratch into the engine. Which involved several steps along the way.

The short anwwer unshamely stolen from reddit:

"When will we see Persistent Streaming and Server Meshing in the PU?"
Our current aim is to release Persistent Streaming and the first version of the Replication layer, ideally, between Q1 and Q2 next year. We’ll then follow up with the first version of a static server mesh, barring any unforeseen technical complications, between Q3 and Q4, of next year.

[https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...Streaming-Q-A)

And the below are the prerequisite of engine and server technologies for releasing server meshing in PU in chronological order

* 2019: Client Side Object Container Streaming (OCS)
* 2020: Server Side Object Container Streaming (SOCS)
* 2021: Persistence Database and Streaming (iCache/EntityGraph)
* 2022: Hybrid Services and Server Meshing

Without persistence streaming, the verse and players lose progress as players travel across servers; without SOCS, the system could not split the verse into small enough pieces to fit into different servers; without OCS, the client could be overwhelmed by what can be shown by Hybrid."

To add to the list, before Object Container Streaming, CIG first had to develop the concept of the Object Container in the engine.

Object Containers are an extrapolation of the MegaMap, a specially-formatted CryEngine level file that acts as a blank slate for assets to be streamed into dynamically. It's basically like the Star Trek holodeck, and it means seamless loading from area to area once the game has started up. The Megamap was added into the game with alpha 2.6 which went live in early January, 2017.

Before the engine could make use of the Megamap, CIG had to modify the engine to allow for dynamic asset loading, which they did in 2015. An unmodified CryEngine install (the base CIG started on for SC's engine) does not understand dynamic loading, anything that exists in a map has to be loaded when the map is first loaded and the mission/round starts. This is obviously incompatible with an MMO where players will come and go whenever they want.

There are a lot of other, smaller details that I've left out because I didn't want this post to become a novel, but the short version is that server meshing had to wait for CIG to develop a foundation beneath it and that foundation has been years in the making. Star Citizen had to learn to crawl before it could walk.

The official video explaning goes more into depth: