[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Yelmurc]

I would tend to agree with you in that I am pretty sure CIG has, for a while already, invested a larger portion of its human resources into SQ42, and that will inevitably impact the PU patches content, no doubt. The thing is, that rational is underpinned by an expectation of a SQ42 release sooner rather than later, otherwise the argument of technical limitations and management incompetence for the slow down would still be the most logical one.



So, do you mean CIG was just padding their release view with useless clutter that were later withdrawn? I am shocked, shocked I tell you!

Either way, even if you remove performance optimization from the patches it showed up (2018-2020 period) the overall trend remains largely exactly the same for that category: 8(2018), 13(2019), 4(2020), 1(2021), 1(2022).



Sadly, that is not really a very consoling argument in this discussion. As mentioned, one of the reasons for progress slowing down to a crawl is precisely technical limitations in CIG´s engine and code. But that is by the by, there are still 7 categories more, Characters, AI, Gameplay, Ship, Vehicles, Weapon items and Core Tech, where CIG´s actual delivery track record has come to a halt as well and for which you would need to find additional rationalisations.

My argument isn't that the PU isn't slowing down, my argument is that using the progress tracker to show this slowing down isn't a very good one since there are a lot of variables other than just cards on the patch.

Lets take each catergory.

Characters: The use to list every armor set they added. This is no longer the case.

Locations: As mentioned, they have 6 planets and 6 moons plus whatever they have done in Nyx, plus multple rest stop and Ruin Station in pyro sitting on the shelf because of server meshing.

AI: They don't list these improvements as detailed as they use to from what I can see, They mainly list larger features such as the Nav Mesh or landing and taking off. They had Ai networking improvements in 3.17.2 which previously would have been listed in older release view patches.

Gameplay: They use to list QoL improvements in gameplay. They no longer do that.

Ships and Vehicles: They use to have a lot more variants for ships a few years ago. While they still make varients its a lot less than those earlier years. Plus ships are more detailed now. They have component bays that animate, light and door panels, weapon racks, lockers, all sorts of new bells and whistles.

Weapon and Items: This is the only section thats its obvious they don't make nearly as many weapons as they use to. This is mainly a SQ42 issue.

Core Tech: As we already discussed they use to have Performance improvements plus other things like shader and and when they listed Object Container Streaming, they listed every small change. Currently for PES they just have it listed as PES, not broken down in small details.

The Release View isn't consistent. Thats just my point. CIG needs to get SQ42 out sooner rather than later or eventually they will lose a lot of PU players. Hopefully Pyro next year (if it does actually get released) will keep everyone engaged for another year.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Bad dum tssss ~

Dude they have...like so much tech. At least 12 tech.

[kenn9530]

gen 12 - as it's 12th try to modify cryengine? Well you know what they say - thirteenth time's the charm.

Here you are proving my point, why even comment when you are not even following any of the games development, gen 12 is graphics tech that allows vulkan to be put into the game and later ray tracing and such, engines themselves for most games need many thousands of modifications over the course of development, engines never stop being worked on so they can be improved even further.

[ldev]

gen 12 is graphics tech that allows vulkan to be put into the game.

no, tech is vulkan which allows engine to run vulkan, gen 12 is tech which allows gen 12. and gen 12 is not vulkan, proof - https://www.textcompare.org/?id=6368...64d5860088179b

engines themselves for most games need many thousands of modifications over the course of development

so they need 100000 modifications, and they are on 12th gen. 12/100000 - big oof, why are they sleeping? that's literally 0.012% of progress. in 10 years. to reach 100% they will need 83333.3333 (repeating, of course) years. even bigger oof.

also, unreal engine is version 5 and they already have ray tracing, explain that, 5 < 12, oof

[kenn9530]

no, tech is vulkan which allows engine to run vulkan, gen 12 is tech which allows gen 12. and gen 12 is not vulkan, proof - https://www.textcompare.org/?id=6368...64d5860088179b


so they need 100000 modifications, and they are on 12th gen. 12/100000 - big oof, why are they sleeping? that's literally 0.012% of progress. in 10 years. to reach 100% they will need 83333.3333 (repeating, of course) years. even bigger oof.

also, unreal engine is version 5 and they already have ray tracing, explain that, 5 < 12, oof

Its clear you dont even know what a gen 12 renderer actually is, its a new rendering architecture to give large performance gains, its thier own version of direct x 12 and its essential to be complete or vulkan cant be fully used without it, the whole point in the gen 12 tech is to make use of vulkan and all the other features that go with it. you have constantly shown you dont know anything about the games development and talk complete nonsense.

Gen 12 is almost complete, they are close to being able to fully implement vulkan, it has very little to do with the game engine.

[Thestrawman]

Its clear you dont even know what a gen 12 renderer actually is, its a new rendering architecture to give large performance gains, its thier own version of direct x 12 and its essential to be complete or vulkan cant be fully used without it, the whole point in the gen 12 tech is to make use of vulkan and all the other features that go with it. you have constantly shown you dont know anything about the games development and talk complete nonsense.

Gen 12 is almost complete, they are close to being able to fully implement vulkan, it has very little to do with the game engine.

So they'll "almost" (citation needed) have direct 12 just in time for Directx 13 to come out.

[ldev]

Its clear you dont even know what a gen 12 renderer actually is, its a new rendering architecture to give large performance gains, its thier own version of direct x 12 and its essential to be complete or vulkan cant be fully used without it, the whole point in the gen 12 tech is to make use of vulkan and all the other features that go with it. you have constantly shown you dont know anything about the games development and talk complete nonsense.

Gen 12 is almost complete, they are close to being able to fully implement vulkan, it has very little to do with the game engine.

ayyyy lmao, gen 12 renderer because it's DirectX 12

2015 - DirectX 12 - gen 12 renderer
2009 - DirectX 11 - gen 11 renderer
<...>
1996 - DirectX 2 - gen 2 renderer
1995 - DirectX 1 - gen 1 renderer

and here's where it gets interesting:
1994 - Glide - gen 0 renderer
1992 - OpenGL 1.0 - gen -1 renderer
1990 - some hand rolled software rasteriser - gen -2 renderer

also, do u 'member mantle? cuz i 'member mantle. star citizen 'members mantle - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...Mantle-Support

star citizen mantle support when?

[kenn9530]

ayyyy lmao, gen 12 renderer because it's DirectX 12

2015 - DirectX 12 - gen 12 renderer
2009 - DirectX 11 - gen 11 renderer
<...>
1996 - DirectX 2 - gen 2 renderer
1995 - DirectX 1 - gen 1 renderer

and here's where it gets interesting:
1994 - Glide - gen 0 renderer
1992 - OpenGL 1.0 - gen -1 renderer
1990 - some hand rolled software rasteriser - gen -2 renderer

also, do u 'member mantle? cuz i 'member mantle. star citizen 'members mantle - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...Mantle-Support

star citizen mantle support when?

mantle support is irrelevant since all that is included in the gen 12 renderer as the whole point in it is making more use out of the CPU and GPU, mantle is redundant as its limited to just AMD, gen 12 has no such limit and can support linux also.

You do like to bring up irrelevant pointless things when CIG already has better systems inplace.

[Cloverfield]

My argument isn't that the PU isn't slowing down, my argument is that using the progress tracker to show this slowing down isn't a very good one since there are a lot of variables other than just cards on the patch.

Lets take each catergory.

Characters: The use to list every armor set they added. This is no longer the case.

...

The Release View isn't consistent. Thats just my point. CIG needs to get SQ42 out sooner rather than later or eventually they will lose a lot of PU players. Hopefully Pyro next year (if it does actually get released) will keep everyone engaged for another year.

The Release view is just a direct reflection of the content we find in the actual updates though. By and large the items you see there are also the big headers of what you can read in the patch logs and what we can experience in game.

If all that can not be relied upon to ascertain rate of progress (slow down or not), then what is?

As an example to pass the point across, regarding Characters: If they do not list as many armor sets as they used to perhaps it is precisely because they are not adding as many armor sets as they used to. Etc. This is happening pretty much across all release view categories.

I mean, it is fine if you think that the Release tracker seems to have less content now because the descriptions have become slimmer. But perhaps, just perhaps, it is possible that the Release tracker has become much slimmer precisely because there is actually less and less content in the updates we get, thus a good reflector that progress has actually slowed down.

I do not think the Release View is inconsistent. It shows a clear trend over the last 3-4 years towards less and less content released. You can also see that trend in the patch logs, and it reflects quite accurately the actual (reduced) content we see in our client updates. With just 1 main update in 2022 so far by the way. Lucky if we get the 2nd one before year end.

Two main reasons for the slow down, management incompetence and/or engine and code technical limitations. And as mentioned, after 10+ years and half a billion spent (video game industry record) so far, more money or more time do not seem to be the solution for those in the case of SC.

I can also agree that another possible ingredient in the explanation is the diversion of resources to SQ42, although track record suggests this possible explanation is very weak:



Either way, as mentioned, that would just mean that there is an underlying expectation that SQ42 should release sooner rather than later. Failing which, we would rather need to agree on the incompetence and/or technical limitations scenario.

[ldev]

You do like to bring up irrelevant pointless things when CIG already has better systems inplace.

so CIG won't implement mantle, because CIG already has better systems inplace - like vulkan?

[banmebaby]

Lol, "2013", crazy how stuff get discontinued faster than CiG is able to implement it.

[kenn9530]

so CIG won't implement mantle, because CIG already has better systems inplace - like vulkan?

The gen 12 renderer and vulkan does everything better than mantle does, mantle is old tech, when vulkan succeded mantle why would the company use something old, you realise how little sense you are making right now, vulkan is the successor to mantle so that means mantle was made completely irrelevant due to it being old and vulkan being simply better.

So you claimed CiG are not using mantle but they are using a better version of that tech, so everything you have said about it has been a waste of time.

[ldev]

The gen 12 renderer and vulkan does everything better than mantle does, mantle is old tech, when vulkan succeded mantle why would the company use something old, you realise how little sense you are making right now, vulkan is the successor to mantle so that means mantle was made completely irrelevant due to it being old and vulkan being simply better.

So you claimed CiG are not using mantle but they are using a better version of that tech, so everything you have said about it has been a waste of time.

So Star Citizen has Vulkan support.

[kenn9530]

So Star Citizen has Vulkan support.

Its in the process of completing and switching to gen 12 and vulkan support, it may come in the next main patch or pyro once the last peices of the work for gen 12 is complete. Gen 12 is the base they require to be complete before they can start using vulkan.

[ldev]

Its in the process of completing and switching to gen 12 and vulkan support, it may come in the next main patch or pyro once the last peices of the work for gen 12 is complete. Gen 12 is the base they require to be complete before they can start using vulkan.

you have constantly shown you dont know anything about the games development and talk complete nonsense.

[kenn9530]

you have constantly shown you dont know anything about the games development and talk complete nonsense.

When you dont even know the basics of star citizens development you dont have any credibility to begin with, you are the one talking complete nonsense as you dont have anything to back you up, just another poster that cant string any sort of argument together.

[Calfredd]

When you dont even know the basics of star citizens development you dont have any credibility to begin with,

At least you finally admitted it.

[1001]

mantle is old tech, when vulkan succeded mantle why would the company use something old

Good point, it would be like making an MMO using some old decrepit version of CryEngine.

Oh wait....

[Proskill]

holy shit, 10 min to boot up the game and another 10 to load into the server. 20 min to even start playing on HDD.
i knew its gonna be bad, but damn

[Heathy]

yeah it basically requires an SSD, not many games do, but this one does, probably because of the texture streaming, regular hdds are too slow, the last time I played off a hdd, things just didn't render at all, I would go into an elevator and just fall forever. large portions of the scenery were just invisible.

I have a slightly better mobo/cpu with an m.2 ssd, when I can be bothered to set that pc up is when Ill play SC next. I think I bought my avenger titan in 2018. I've barely played the game since then. most ppl in this thread have put more effort into complaining about the game, than I have put into playing it. just put that into perspective. ppl have spent more of their life complaining about a game they don't own. than someone who owns the game has spent on playing it. ppl have clocked more hours in this thread, than I've clocked on the game I spent £70 on. entertainment is relative I suppose. if you can get it for free why not. I still come back here and now and again to read what ppl have been saying, but its still on repeat.

I don't think i've logged into the game since the last time I posted in here. that doesn't mean I won't log into it again, more so i'm just happy to wait until the game is more of a game. why get upset about things you have very little baring on. its just avoidable stress. it either becomes a game ppl want to play or it doesn't. and i've lost £70. I spend twice that on weed every fortnight. I smoke £70 a week. this is how much it matters. to me personally. the game is barely worth this much effort.

I'd honestly be more concerned about what it means for crowdfunded games if this thing just one day vanished. I doubt there would be any faith left to back something of the same scope. so ppl should hope that this doesn't fail as it would have a profound affect on future crowd funding. if this fails, you won't see another game like this again.