[Megathread] Star Citizen

[kenn9530]

Mmmhmm sure, I'm sure having more crew, more guns, more armor, etc has no effect on gameplay. That's why everyone will be flying starter ships because they don't matter right? Oh wait you mean larger ships go faster, have more space, etc etc. Right. It's ONLY about pvp with these ships..Oh wait, that isn't the case? Oops.

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Wasn't this game supposed to release in 2014? I mean Nov 2014 was the date they set in KS. I mean you've been waiting 5 years now, what's another 5 right? I dunno about you, but I think a complete game after 7 years of development isn't a big ask in this day and age. But that is if it was released today, it won't be for years. How long until we call it Duke Nukem levels of incompetence?

How does someone else having a different ship affect your gameplay, no matter what the starting ship your still going to do what you were going to do anyway, a starter ship may be limited to the few planets in range but your still going to do whatever missions you can to earn the next ship, reputation with factions is something everyone will aim for to access better missions and should easily be able to make plenty of currency to upgrade in a short time.

If they only got a few million a game similar to freelancer was probably the most likely and it wouldnt of had as many ships so could have been possible to make a game with what ships were available from the start, it wouldnt have been anywhere near close to a AAA title and probably would of only been a decent game if it was a more improved version of freelancer with 1st/3rd person interaction. But the game was changed within the origional kickstarter so release dates were made irrelevant but we still got an alpha released in 2014.

[Kyanion]

How does someone else having a different ship affect your gameplay, no matter what the starting ship your still going to do what you were going to do anyway, a starter ship may be limited to the few planets in range but your still going to do whatever missions you can to earn the next ship, reputation with factions is something everyone will aim for to access better missions and should easily be able to make plenty of currency to upgrade in a short time.

Are you kidding me, again? A larger ship with better firepower, speed, carrying space for people and cargo. I mean what could the possible advantages be?

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If they only got a few million a game similar to freelancer was probably the most likely and it wouldnt of had as many ships so could have been possible to make a game with what ships were available from the start, it wouldnt have been anywhere near close to a AAA title and probably would of only been a decent game if it was a more improved version of freelancer with 1st/3rd person interaction. But the game was changed within the origional kickstarter so release dates were made irrelevant but we still got an alpha released in 2014.

Yeah heaven forbid they actually released a game 5 years ago, oh well! And sorry getting an alpha released isn't the game that was supposed to be released 5 years ago. Hell in 5 years they are still in Alpha. Lol.

[Shakzor]

How does someone else having a different ship affect your gameplay, no matter what the starting ship your still going to do what you were going to do anyway, a starter ship may be limited to the few planets in range but your still going to do whatever missions you can to earn the next ship, reputation with factions is something everyone will aim for to access better missions and should easily be able to make plenty of currency to upgrade in a short time.

It HIGHLY affects the gameplay of people who want to be more on the pirate side of things. If the pirate hasn't bought a ship and the thing he tries to attack is vastly stronger than his starter ship, then he is getting affected by the other person buying power (in this case, a stronger ship).
Yes, it doesn't matter AS much to someone who wants to trade, pve or whatever, but that doesn't make it less pay2win, since the stronger ship makes it less likely to get attacked by people with brains and therefore making him the safer trader, pve'r or whatever.

I don't really care if they take another 50 years for this feature creep to complete or how many more billions they take from their cult followers, since i neither bought into the kickstarter, nor planning to look at it before an actual release, but i fucking HATE It when people defend blatant p2w, especially when it's on a money scale like this.
You cannot deny that someone that bought a ship for hundreds has an inherent advantage over the one who didn't. And no, we do not assume the payer is the dumbest player you can imagine and the non-buyer the most pro you can imagine, but both being the same, because this "skill > money" still applies to many p2w games to some extent

[nocturnus]

Holy shit. Some people are so deeply invested in this product that they would probably justify human sacrifice.

Defending pay to win; how low can you go?

[Majestic12]

It HIGHLY affects the gameplay of people who want to be more on the pirate side of things. If the pirate hasn't bought a ship and the thing he tries to attack is vastly stronger than his starter ship, then he is getting affected by the other person buying power (in this case, a stronger ship).
Yes, it doesn't matter AS much to someone who wants to trade, pve or whatever, but that doesn't make it less pay2win, since the stronger ship makes it less likely to get attacked by people with brains and therefore making him the safer trader, pve'r or whatever.

I don't really care if they take another 50 years for this feature creep to complete or how many more billions they take from their cult followers, since i neither bought into the kickstarter, nor planning to look at it before an actual release, but i fucking HATE It when people defend blatant p2w, especially when it's on a money scale like this.
You cannot deny that someone that bought a ship for hundreds has an inherent advantage over the one who didn't. And no, we do not assume the payer is the dumbest player you can imagine and the non-buyer the most pro you can imagine, but both being the same, because this "skill > money" still applies to many p2w games to some extent

We've been arguing about P2W in this thread for years and the Star Citizen supporters just refuse to accept it.

This is despite the fact that you buy pure mechanical power you didn't earn ingame by:

* Buying the fastest racer and competing against players.
* Buying the best exploration vessel and competing against other explorers.
* Buying a loaded fighter and fighting other players.
* Buying the best mining vessel and undercutting other players.

The list goes on and on. If you can do something and compete against other players, Star Citizen will let you buy mechanical power for whatever that is.

It's important to point out that in terms of pure definition, SC isn't P2W. However, the definition of P2W is definitely old and outdated. It used to be that you could buy exclusive items that F2P players could not get. However, terms evolve based on how people use it and it's clear that it's changing right as we speak. Plenty of games(not just SC) are branded as P2W if they let you buy mechanical power for cash. It's the new thing.

We've basically entered a new era of gaming with regards to microtransactions(or, macro in SC. )

People in this thread will try to tell you that there is no winning in SC. They are wrong. Unfortunately they won't budge on this so it's basically them vs. the entire gaming community.

If anyone doesn't believe me, make a post on r/gaming and link the store page and ask if people think SC is P2W. Public opinion on the matter is clear, and it's obvious that the definition of P2W doesn't hold up anymore.

Truth is, if you bought a ship in SC, you didn't earn it. And if you use that to beat other players, you've paid to win. Period.

[kenn9530]

It HIGHLY affects the gameplay of people who want to be more on the pirate side of things. If the pirate hasn't bought a ship and the thing he tries to attack is vastly stronger than his starter ship, then he is getting affected by the other person buying power (in this case, a stronger ship).
Yes, it doesn't matter AS much to someone who wants to trade, pve or whatever, but that doesn't make it less pay2win, since the stronger ship makes it less likely to get attacked by people with brains and therefore making him the safer trader, pve'r or whatever.

I don't really care if they take another 50 years for this feature creep to complete or how many more billions they take from their cult followers, since i neither bought into the kickstarter, nor planning to look at it before an actual release, but i fucking HATE It when people defend blatant p2w, especially when it's on a money scale like this.
You cannot deny that someone that bought a ship for hundreds has an inherent advantage over the one who didn't. And no, we do not assume the payer is the dumbest player you can imagine and the non-buyer the most pro you can imagine, but both being the same, because this "skill > money" still applies to many p2w games to some extent

The better ships make for a better pirate target actually, your not going to make any profit from starter players, but it still wont change how you actually play the game at all, the law system also affects how players will play the game as most will not want to be a pirate and lose access to missions and such, if someone wants to destroy they will do it regardless of the ship but you dont even need to fight most of the time, starter players are going to be operating in a small area in high sec space so pirates going after them will take a huge risk and the only thing they gain would be criminal status which put patrols on your ass.

The ships you buy are to fund development, without that funding there would be no game for you to moan about and people who want an actual space game would moan about not having one.

Im not really a PvP player and im not bothered in the slightest what other ships players have, your ship is going to be destroyed many times either by other players or bad piloting.

There are organisations for a reason you can always team up with another crew and then upgrade your ship.

[Wilian]

The better ships make for a better pirate target actually, your not going to make any profit from starter players, but it still wont change how you actually play the game at all, the law system also affects how players will play the game as most will not want to be a pirate and lose access to missions and such, if someone wants to destroy they will do it regardless of the ship but you dont even need to fight most of the time, starter players are going to be operating in a small area in high sec space so pirates going after them will take a huge risk and the only thing they gain would be criminal status which put patrols on your ass.

The ships you buy are to fund development, without that funding there would be no game for you to moan about and people who want an actual space game would moan about not having one.

Im not really a PvP player and im not bothered in the slightest what other ships players have, your ship is going to be destroyed many times either by other players or bad piloting.

There are organisations for a reason you can always team up with another crew and then upgrade your ship.

Be honest now. How much do they pay you monthly?

[1001]

The ships you buy are to fund development, without that funding there would be no game for you to moan about and people who want an actual space game would moan about not having one.

As has been said many times before, this idea that they have to sell ships is bullshit.

The game could easily have been built with a more modest target in mind, the fleshed out Kickstarter pitch was for a helluva game and that was meant to be doable for $23 million.
If 1.5 million backers (the estimated number of paid backers) all spent $60 and got an included starter ship they would have raised $90 million, which is almost 4x what they allegedly needed in the beginning.

Instead, they got drunk on the success of having a bunch of rabid no-time-for-gaming dads willing to throw good money after bad that turned the project into this ballooned out of all proportion shitfest that it is now.

[kenn9530]

As has been said many times before, this idea that they have to sell ships is bullshit.

The game could easily have been built with a more modest target in mind, the fleshed out Kickstarter pitch was for a helluva game and that was meant to be doable for $23 million.
If 1.5 million backers (the estimated number of paid backers) all spent $60 and got an included starter ship they would have raised $90 million, which is almost 4x what they allegedly needed in the beginning.

Instead, they got drunk on the success of having a bunch of rabid no-time-for-gaming dads willing to throw good money after bad that turned the project into this ballooned out of all proportion shitfest that it is now.

Origional funding would only of been good enough for a standard game nothing near what a AAA title should be, it was said clear in the kickstarter if funding was adequate they would proceed with developing a AAA quality game and if funding was not enough then they would of came out with something less involved.

90 million is barely enough to make a game like witcher 3 so trying to make a fully interactive game in space with a high fidelity requires a substantial amount more, not to mention no game has been done before like SC, ED is just a shell of a game in comparison.

You have no concept on the reality of bringing a game to life thats never been done before, its obvious there would be problems on a project like this but it just means waiting a little longer.

out of the 234 million raised around 80 million is due to ship sales.

[bloodwulf]

Origional funding would only of been good enough for a standard game nothing near what a AAA title should be, it was said clear in the kickstarter if funding was adequate they would proceed with developing a AAA quality game and if funding was not enough then they would of came out with something less involved.

90 million is barely enough to make a game like witcher 3 so trying to make a fully interactive game in space with a high fidelity requires a substantial amount more, not to mention no game has been done before like SC, ED is just a shell of a game in comparison.

You have no concept on the reality of bringing a game to life thats never been done before, its obvious there would be problems on a project like this but it just means waiting a little longer.

The game would of been fine to fund if Chris Roberts was addicted to feature creep. He has literally done that in every project he has ever been associated with. The only people at blame for the ballooning costs is the members of development. Roberts should of been canned years ago and we would have a game that is playable and complete, not a 435 page thread which is 80% 5 people desperately trying to defend their investment. You are literally defending the fact that one of the largest crowdfunding successes in history is unable to fund even a beta release of a game. The game will NEVER release entirely until Chris Roberts is removed from lead, and the goal posts are cemented into the ground so they can not be moved further. He is literally Peter Molyneux bad at game development, and just as notorious at overpromising and under delivering.

But please, keep defending a P2W cash shop that makes japanese gacha games look generous.

[MrAnderson]

And another useless back & forth where the people who don't play the game tell the ones who play it how it is.
Yeah I'm sure this time it will be fruitful.

[kenn9530]

The game would of been fine to fund if Chris Roberts was addicted to feature creep. He has literally done that in every project he has ever been associated with. The only people at blame for the ballooning costs is the members of development. Roberts should of been canned years ago and we would have a game that is playable and complete, not a 435 page thread which is 80% 5 people desperately trying to defend their investment. You are literally defending the fact that one of the largest crowdfunding successes in history is unable to fund even a beta release of a game. The game will NEVER release entirely until Chris Roberts is removed from lead, and the goal posts are cemented into the ground so they can not be moved further. He is literally Peter Molyneux bad at game development, and just as notorious at overpromising and under delivering.

But please, keep defending a P2W cash shop that makes japanese gacha games look generous.

You wouldnt be getting a game at all to complain about otherwise, development time is more than reasonable for this type of project and we can clearly see the progress every step of the way which probably slows down progress further, the game couldnt be made to this level without selling ships, AAA quality games are not cheap and is expected to cost over a 200 million.

Its better to have someone who cares about a game in charge than some exec that only cares about money, its chris's company so if you dont like it you dont have to buy the game at all or wait until its released.

And another useless back & forth where the people who don't play the game tell the ones who play it how it is.
Yeah I'm sure this time it will be fruitful.

many probably have not even tried any of the recent alpha patches so have no clue on the game at all, i evalute the game based on that and can see roughly how it is shaping and should provide a good space MMO experience.

Only things they say is P2W when there are many systems not in place yet to even discuss it properly or it should of been released by now chris is incompetant.

[Kyanion]

Only things they say is P2W when there are many systems not in place yet to even discuss it properly or it should of been released by now chris is incompetant.

Translation: They need a few more years to get those systems in place, in the meantime while you wait for this came to come out, drop 900 dollars on a ship please!

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And another useless back & forth where the people who don't play the game tell the ones who play it how it is.
Yeah I'm sure this time it will be fruitful.

Translation: We are totally playing this game, you can too if you drop tons of money on it! Nevermind the fact that the game is still in Alpha after what, 7 years of development? Buy more ships!

[1001]

Origional funding would only of been good enough for a standard game nothing near what a AAA title should be, it was said clear in the kickstarter if funding was adequate they would proceed with developing a AAA quality game and if funding was not enough then they would of came out with something less involved.

90 million is barely enough to make a game like witcher 3 so trying to make a fully interactive game in space with a high fidelity requires a substantial amount more, not to mention no game has been done before like SC, ED is just a shell of a game in comparison.

You have no concept on the reality of bringing a game to life thats never been done before, its obvious there would be problems on a project like this but it just means waiting a little longer.

Just look at this...

If it wasn't going to be much of a game then why the fuck did everybody fund it?
All of your comments are directly contradicted by the pitch, the initial video and the accompanying stretch goals.

The only person with no concept of reality is yourself, simply proven by how you want to redefine it...

out of the 234 million raised around 80 million is due to ship sales.

No kenn, out of $234 million raised, almost all of it is from ship sales. Like wtf man? This is the most deluded thing I have read today.

[Orange Joe]

Translation: They need a few more years to get those systems in place, in the meantime while you wait for this came to come out, drop 900 dollars on a ship please!

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Translation: We are totally playing this game, you can too if you drop tons of money on it! Nevermind the fact that the game is still in Alpha after what, 7 years of development? Buy more ships!

$40 is tons of money? Cause that is all I spent and I can play what is available also.

[Rennadrel]

Translation: They need a few more years to get those systems in place, in the meantime while you wait for this came to come out, drop 900 dollars on a ship please!

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Translation: We are totally playing this game, you can too if you drop tons of money on it! Nevermind the fact that the game is still in Alpha after what, 7 years of development? Buy more ships!

So tell me again how many other developers are running alpha testing out of the gate? Oh right, ZERO. I'm not going to sit here and pretend the game hasn't been in development hell as far as getting things out on time, but development time on an MMO isn't particularly short. Considering the colossal disaster that really put the game back in the Cry Engine/Star Engine build up and a whole component of the game being outsourced to IllFonic and not being compatible with the rest of the game really did not help them at all and set them back 16 months. Really, Chris's hindsight should have been to get the engine that he wanted to use developed along with the core FPS and flight models before putting the project on Kickstarter.

It's all well and good to have an idea, but he didn't even have a foundation to build off of that was going to be there long term, so that really set things back.

[kenn9530]

Just look at this...

If it wasn't going to be much of a game then why the fuck did everybody fund it?
All of your comments are directly contradicted by the pitch, the initial video and the accompanying stretch goals.

The only person with no concept of reality is yourself, simply proven by how you want to redefine it...



No kenn, out of $234 million raised, almost all of it is from ship sales. Like wtf man? This is the most deluded thing I have read today.

you obviously didnt bother reading anything in the kickstarter, it was stated clearly that they wanted to make a AAA game but if funding was not enough they would of made what they could so it would of only been a little better than ED with far fewer ships and not as much detail, without the 100 extra ships available that work would of been put into the game but you would of only had a handful of ships, so it wouldnt have been much of a space game compared to what we are getting now.

your not very good at math are you, there are at least 1.7 to 1.8 million who have bough a basic package with around 400-500k accounts with no ships at all, that alone makes just buying the starter package to make up 50% of all the funding, so how can most of the money raised be purely on ship sales.

Average spent overall per account with a ship would be 130 bucks.

Translation: They need a few more years to get those systems in place, in the meantime while you wait for this came to come out, drop 900 dollars on a ship please!

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Translation: We are totally playing this game, you can too if you drop tons of money on it! Nevermind the fact that the game is still in Alpha after what, 7 years of development? Buy more ships!

you can buy the basic starter package and earn ships ingame fairly quickly right now

[Kyanion]

$40 is tons of money? Cause that is all I spent and I can play what is available also.

We've been talking about the 900 dollar ship that recently came out among the many ridiculous cash shop items that have come out over the years.

And again, we're also talking about a you know, released, complete game. Not an alpha missing TONS of features that have been promised over the years.

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So tell me again how many other developers are running alpha testing out of the gate? Oh right, ZERO. I'm not going to sit here and pretend the game hasn't been in development hell as far as getting things out on time, but development time on an MMO isn't particularly short. Considering the colossal disaster that really put the game back in the Cry Engine/Star Engine build up and a whole component of the game being outsourced to IllFonic and not being compatible with the rest of the game really did not help them at all and set them back 16 months. Really, Chris's hindsight should have been to get the engine that he wanted to use developed along with the core FPS and flight models before putting the project on Kickstarter.

It's all well and good to have an idea, but he didn't even have a foundation to build off of that was going to be there long term, so that really set things back.

You do realize this mmo has been in development longer than many other MMOs over the years right? 2012-2019, hell let's be generous and say 2014-2019 is still longer than WoW. Many MMOs released in the 4-5 year window and SC isn't even close. Let's also not forget the massive cash shop that has been churning money from whales for a long time. Kickstarter wasn't enough, funding via whales isn't enough, getting money from outside investors isn't enough, release more 900 dollar ships!

His fuckups are not my problem, it is why people should have been wary shoveling money at him due to his track record of feature creep and being taken off of games. They have massively failed at every turn at putting out a game as promised and again, if it comes out by 2021 I'd be shocked.

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you can buy the basic starter package and earn ships ingame fairly quickly right now

"fairly quickly" or just swipe your credit card and cut the line.

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https://store.steampowered.com/genre/Early%20Access/

Yeah I'm not even sure what their point was with that one.

[Orange Joe]

We've been talking about the 900 dollar ship that recently came out among the many ridiculous cash shop items that have come out over the years.

Then why make it seem like that ship is a must to be able to test/play the game? Your statement is still false. You don't need to "drop tons of money" on it to play it.

[Jastall]

If anything, it’s more akin to Blizzard’s “Character Boost” that grants max level to one of your characters, that in my honest opinion, while it’s still not as bad as some of the stuff that SC is profiting from, it’s still also an overpriced bullshit that shouldn’t even exist.

Really, getting these ships is kinda like buying a character boost and five shop mounts before you even install WoW. You can do it, sure. And I can think it's a really stupid decision.

And hell, it makes more sense to buy stuff for WoW still, as it's an actually released game that works, has 15 years of content and plenty of visibility as to the finished product.