[Megathread] Star Citizen

[1001]

Games in development cant stick to deadlines, you cant just say this must be done by this time when any game in development cant always do something by said time. A deadline is something that must happen and thats impossible in game development.

Delays happen in all games in development and thats where the similarities end with SC because it is implementing features and systems that have never been combined before along with the size of the game being larger than any other game that has been developed, you cant really complain when a game is trying something so out of the box no other developer would even attempt it and then complain its taking longer.

Your comparing your expectations to games that have been developed for years and have an industry standard formula, how are new games meant to be developed when gamers like yourself complain about everything.

Lol you're just making it all up as you go.

The oft-repeated defense lines lost their deflection stats years ago. There comes a point where simply saying They are doing something different (while comtinually failing) is just not enough anymore.

Will you be here making the same asinine excuses in 10 years time when CIG are trying to extol the benefits of a single star system in their rebranded game known as Stanton Citizen?

[kenn9530]

Lol you're just making it all up as you go.

The oft-repeated defense lines lost their deflection stats years ago. There comes a point where simply saying They are doing something different (while comtinually failing) is just not enough anymore.

Will you be here making the same asinine excuses in 10 years time when CIG are trying to extol the benefits of a single star system in their rebranded game known as Stanton Citizen?

just shows how little you know about game development, most development is behind closed doors and you dont see how many targets are missed, the only reason you even come in the star citizen area is to talk bad about it, you dont even look at what is currently available and how its already far beyond anything similar.

[1001]

just shows how little you know about game development

This is so funny, coming from you of all people....

most development is behind closed doors and you dont see how many targets are missed, the only reason you even come in the star citizen area is to talk bad about it, you dont even look at what is currently available and how its already far beyond anything similar.

As true as some of that may be, Star Citizen remains an anomaly because after 8 years and over $350 million spent they have less than 1 of 100 systems completed and only a fraction of the proposed gameplay mechanics implemented.

So whether other games go through engine swaps, redesigns etc is irrelevant because

a/ saying Duke Nulkem Forever took 15 years and therefore Star Citizen's development is fine is not what you should be aiming for
b/ those games are privately funded and
c/ no other game has cost so much money for so little content.

If the game was 50% done then I am sure people would be more tolerant but that is not the case.

[Shakzor]

There is no such thing as deadlines in game development, just a guideline on what you think you can do things around

Sorry, but this is probably the absolute most bullshit thing i've EVER read in this ENTIRE thread. Stop excusing them for repeating having the worst development management imaginable.

Deadlines have the purpose of not having your entire staff being shafted to do nothing or meaningless tasks and therefore saving money and time overall.
If Team B works on thing Y but requires Team A to finish thing X, then a deadline is crucial to a well managed team to not have Team B cost money for no reason because they have to wait for Team A get off their arses and do their work. But you'd probably say "but what if they face into problems?!", but don't worry, a well managed team takes these things into account and makes deadlines with buffer time in case they run into problems.

Deadlines aren't "we'd somewhat like to have something finished at that date", they're mostly for management to be able to manage a project to go smoothly for everyone and if you can't hit your deadlines repeatedly for years, it means that your management is either complete dogshit or have absolutely no clue what development is even doing.

You know what other projects have deadlines? Every single one on this entire planet. Even your schoolwork back in the day had deadlines (usually the next class) and you faced consequences for not finishing them in time.

If they constantly miss the deadlines they give the PUBLIC, god do i not want to know how fucked up their internal schedule is. There's a reason most projects get public announcements like "we'd like to hit early access on the 12.12.1212" rather late when they're sure it will finish, because they don't wanna make promises they can't keep and know what effects the public knowing their project managing seemingly going wrong can have, like less sales or lose of trust from the customers.

The game can turn out really good in the end, who knows (if it ever releases). But it's clearly not thanks to the management of this big project, as they show all this time. Either hire people that can or do a smaller project you can actually handle

[kenn9530]

snip

You seem to misunderstand the definition of a deadline, its something that must be done by x time, you cant do that in any game development as anything can cause that task to be delayed, you can set goals/tasks with an intention to get it done by a certain time but deadlines are not relevant in game development. Why do you think blizzard give 3 years to make an expansion which is tiny compared to any other game.

- - - Updated - - -

snip

the oxford dictionary states that is is something that must be done, you cant just use any website to suit your own meaning for a word

snip.

your the one stating that all they have done in the past 3 months is what they have delivered in the 3.9 patch, which proves you have no idea on game development.

[kenn9530]

.....

Making a game requires some form of vision. To create said vision there has to be a plan of action. Plans of action need to be fulfilled by those willing to work toward said action. Those willing to work toward said goal need to be paid.. unless they're doing it free of charge. Paying people requires money.. typically lots of it. Keep pushing things back as you continually need to pay people to do work, you're not going to have much money left. Deadlines are extremely important.

You believing that deadlines are a non-issue in game development is just as bizarre as people thinking the earth is flat... and it's not flat.. just in case you need to be told.

having a deadline in game development would mean every single game ever developed fails on this multiple times over so it makes no sense at all does it, a deadline is something that must be done by x time and there is not any flexablity, you can set a timeframe on wanting something done but its impossible to set a deadline especially for a complete new style game.

[Majestic12]

There is no such thing as deadlines in game development...

Woah, woah, slow down Kenn.

Game development is similar to any development in the sense that you've got a product, a vision and ultimately a budget. Deadlines exist in the same way that deadlines exist for any project. That's just a fact.

In fact, I doubt any other Star Citizen supporter in this thread agrees with you here. I'm curious of Odezee or Val's opinion on this topic.

[Shakzor]

You seem to misunderstand the definition of a deadline, its something that must be done by x time, you cant do that in any game development as anything can cause that task to be delayed, you can set goals/tasks with an intention to get it done by a certain time but deadlines are not relevant in game development. Why do you think blizzard give 3 years to make an expansion which is tiny compared to any other game.

Wtf are you talking about? I did tell you that EVERY project calculates potential problems into those deadlines with buffer time. Blizzard is no exception and they DO have deadlines when they do games. They just don't say concrete announcenemt of release dates when they're not yet completely sure, since they don't know if the buffer time needs to be actually used. They set reasonable deadlines (internally, NOT publicly announced to everyone) and work till they're ready to go public with something.
You can be sure as hell that EVERY big company sets themselves deadlines for their projects when they wanna get them done. Companies with competent management and PR simply don't announce anything outside of targeted release windows and when it gets closer, they announce concrete dates. Projects (in this case games) also SOMETIMES get delayed and that usually gets announced ahead of time, like months in advance (very recently Cyberpunk or Last of Us 2). But those actually choose release windows that are realistic and know they can reach them within a reasonable time.
So yes, big companies do set goals/task with the intention to get them done by a certain time. That's what NEEDS to happen, especially with game development. You can't do music if your music artists have no idea about the world, story or characters. World building (the literal one) can only start once the programmers provide the tools to create those.
You can be sure as hell that the people creating those moons or whatever have to do something else WHILE the backend is working on the tools to let them create those moons, they don't just have them sit around and cost money for doing nothing.
Keep in mind that i'm not critizing the game or anything, but your thought of how development seems to work. It's not just 5 people doing whatever and sometime go "josh, you got the forest level finished? Am near completion of the fire one", they NEED to set clear goals for that huge amount of people, otherwise it simply won't work. Imagine if Gamefreak would have to wait a year before Creatures Inc finished making the Pokemons themselves, there'd be a fucking riot in their offices and probably employees laid off left and right since they wouldn't be able to do anything.

But i guess i'll read the next respone (if there is any), notice "holy crap, that guy is delusional" and simply ignore it when it's once again "deadlines don't work for multimillion project, only because they're video games"

[kenn9530]

Woah, woah, slow down Kenn.

Game development is similar to any development in the sense that you've got a product, a vision and ultimately a budget. Deadlines exist in the same way that deadlines exist for any project. That's just a fact.

In fact, I doubt any other Star Citizen supporter in this thread agrees with you here. I'm curious of Odezee or Val's opinion on this topic.

a deadline is an absolute which cant be guaranteed in game development, you can set targets to get things done by but thats not a deadline, that would mean even if something isnt complete they would release a game just because of a deadline, the whole point in a deadline would be that thing had to be done by x time which in any game in development is impossible.

[Xeenith]

why are people still trying to make sense of this troll stuck on his position ? I don't understand... the ignore button exist for this purpose ^^

[Val the Moofia Boss]

In fact, I doubt any other Star Citizen supporter in this thread agrees with you here. I'm curious of Odezee or Val's opinion on this topic.

I backed the game in 2013, when at the time the vision still a relatively modest Freelancer 2.0. You know, a simple arcade space sim. I was mainly interested in the singleplayer campaign. I was only tangentially interested in the multiplayer.

When the MMO alpha dropped for the first time at the end of 2015, I checked it out and was pleasantly surprised, and began to take an interest in the new vision. I dropped some extra cash and upgraded my ship to an Origin 315p. I've played the alpha for some 200-300 hours over the past four years. I've had a ton of fun.

That said, I'm still mostly excited for the singleplayer campaign which was backed way back then. I am frustrated it hasn't released yet, and I have legitimate concerns about the project.

I don't see the roadmap as deadlines or a promise of what features will be in a patch. I see it as an indication of CIG is working on and where they are at, and a rough guesstime of when it could be ready, give or take a couple quarters..

To me, the real warning sign is that we are five years into development and they haven't even greyboxed half of SQ42's proposed levels.

The game began actual development in late 2014/early 2015 (Chris didn't have studio during 2013 and early 2014, only a handful of people). The singleplayer campaign shouldn't be a huge sandbox with a bajillion systems intertwining, and yet they're trying to have the campaign utilize the same tech as the MMO. I think that the slow development of the MMO's many systems is holding the campaign back.

That and studio mismanagement.

I have heard that the studio is woefully mismanaged, not due to any particularly bad people but due to the reality of trying to manage 500 people. It's just simply inefficient.

As for the sandbox MMO, the development team faces legit, herculean technical challenges, such as server meshing. There is just so much crap going on in the current Alpha that the servers can't take anymore stuff. They had to remove gameplay systems and planets from the live alpha builds so that they could implement other systems and planets for the public to try out. The servers are capped at 50 concurrent players and the servers crash a lot.

Server meshing has been touted as the magic fix. The idea is that they are somehow going to dynamically spool up servers and seamlessly transfer thousands of moving objects from one server to another, and merging servers together to create a single persistent universe. Supposedly, they got a prototype version of server meshing working early last year. Right now testing higher player caps (idk if that's with the new tech), but adding 50 or 100 more concurrent players on a server isn't going to fix the game.

I have never heard of anyone attempting anything like this before, and I have my doubts as to whether or not CIG can implement a practical solution to their persistent universe problem.

As always, I only recommend Star Citizen - the MMO - if you like what you see right now. You can get a ton of fun from the game by dropping $45 for the base package. If you don't like what you see right now, don't buy in.

[1001]

your the one stating that all they have done in the past 3 months is what they have delivered in the 3.9 patch, which proves you have no idea on game development.

You're*

I love that your constant fall back is the meme-worthy "You don't understand game development!!". A phrase most often repeated by those who want to try and assume a position of authority in arguments while clearly not understanding anything about game development themselves.

Keep 'em coming Kenny boy!

[kenn9530]

You're*

I love that your constant fall back is the meme-worthy "You don't understand game development!!". A phrase most often repeated by those who want to try and assume a position of authority in arguments while clearly not understanding anything about game development themselves.

Keep 'em coming Kenny boy!

It is you who said all they had done in the past 3 months with 600 staff is what what they gave us in the 3.9 patch, clearly proves my point of your lack of any understanding in development, you completely ignore all the other work that is being done that won't be implemented in the PU for several patches.

[1001]

It is you who said all they had done in the past 3 months with 600 staff is what what they gave us in the 3.9 patch

600 staff on the books, 3 months and more for the patch and a cost of $14 million for a massively cut feature set.
None of those things are untrue despite how much you might dislike them.

clearly proves my point of your lack of any understanding in development,

Keep on with that projection...

you completely ignore all the other work that is being done that won't be implemented in the PU for several patches.

Ah, so it's the things we can't see and don't know they are working on that matter now? Interesting...

CIG showed a list of items coming in their quarterly patch and then failed to deliver. Whether they are working on other stuff or not is irrelevant because that anaemic quarterly patch is still a flop and it's still cost $14 million in funds.

I have to say the lengths you go to whiteknight for a company is just unbelievable, what motivates someone to sell out like that?

[Aliven]

why are people still trying to make sense of this troll stuck on his position ? I don't understand... the ignore button exist for this purpose ^^

We have trollception.

He try to troll us but he did not realize we have too much amusment in reading his troll atempts. And also, public forum, plenty of people read those, maybe they learn.

He is like chimpanzee throwing poop at viewers not realizing there is a glass between them. And viewers are much more amused.

[Rennadrel]

I mean, I've had him on ignore for several months now because he is obnoxious and an obvious goalpost mover.

I'm frustrated by the sluggish developments. I hope that at the very least, Squadron 42 gets a beta this year. I'm not following closely, but I hope for that tangible aspect this year otherwise it won't be coming at all in my mind. 5 years of delays is unacceptable.

[Gorsameth]

I mean, I've had him on ignore for several months now because he is obnoxious and an obvious goalpost mover.

I'm frustrated by the sluggish developments. I hope that at the very least, Squadron 42 gets a beta this year. I'm not following closely, but I hope for that tangible aspect this year otherwise it won't be coming at all in my mind. 5 years of delays is unacceptable.

I don't think the Sq42 roadmap hasn't been updated since halfway through 2019 so I'm going to go with... Extremely unlikely for a beta this year unless its the most barebone shit imaginable.

[Rennadrel]

I don't think the Sq42 roadmap hasn't been updated since halfway through 2019 so I'm going to go with... Extremely unlikely for a beta this year unless its the most barebone shit imaginable.

I've seen released games with less content than SC has right now, so I highly doubt that it will be barebones. It's definitely being held back by the planets and systems being designed at a snails pace.

[kenn9530]

600 staff on the books, 3 months and more for the patch and a cost of $14 million for a massively cut feature set.
None of those things are untrue despite how much you might dislike them.



Keep on with that projection...



Ah, so it's the things we can't see and don't know they are working on that matter now? Interesting...

CIG showed a list of items coming in their quarterly patch and then failed to deliver. Whether they are working on other stuff or not is irrelevant because that anaemic quarterly patch is still a flop and it's still cost $14 million in funds.

I have to say the lengths you go to whiteknight for a company is just unbelievable, what motivates someone to sell out like that?

The game is in development and much of what is being developed will not be implemented for a while, they are updating an alpha version of the game of which is extra and overall helps test what actually works with the game or not, and whats a flop about it exactly features get cut and moved all the time in development, cant put in something that isnt working.

Current generation of games is very bland and boring, there are not many games being developed currently that are any different, only games im looking at are new world and whenever the new LOTR MMO comes along, you can like SC or hate it but its pushing things out of the box by miles of what you can do with a game and space games are hard to do correctly.

The alpha already shows the game going in the right direction. Even if they did spend 14 million in the first quarter thats for the whole development not just what was given in 3.9.

[Odeezee]

It means nothing at all, do you believe that the whole dev team spent the past few months just working on one small area of the game, there will be things already completed that wont even get implemented in the PU for several patches.

why bother even engaging? i get it, everyone is in quarantine and it can get boring, but save yourself some brain cells and just don't engage. i mean they act as though there isn't a global pandemic happening or that 2/3rds of the devs are not even working on Star Citizen atm, but w/e, why would they add any context or argue in good faith when it doesn't help their narrative?

probably on of the best screenshots i have ever seen in a game; the Drake Herald (Inforunner) in the forest biome on Microtech.

this could be a print ad for a movie poster