Crying about PVP realms ''Blue'' response

[Otaka]

In vanilla it was like that if a level 60 was ganking people, nobody below 50 could be a match to him. But people above 50 could be a match depending on the gear and skill level of the 60 leveled player. (i was 49 warrior and killed a 60 level paladin in tanaris by kiting him with rend, he was stupid enough to never heal himself)

But right now, in the game...you HAVE to be level 90 and you HAVE to have full pvp gear to be able to fight against a ganker with full pvp gear. Even that might not be enough, if the ganker has full epic gear and you only have blue pvp gear then in 99% of cases he will kill you.

This huge gap should be reduced back to what it used to be... its the reason why people dont enjoy world pvp as much as in the old times. In general it would make pvp more enjoyable aswell.

Pvp gear would be an advantage but it would not turn you into a god.

[Endus]

While he's at it, I suppose he can go find the same source that says LFD, LFR, BG's, and Arena's for PvP realms should only pull from their realm, and not from their battlegroup.

I'd even be able to accept a complaint that CRZ is a detriment to the feeling of server community, but that's not part of any definition of "server", and it's an extension of the same solutions that were presented for instanced content, and the general feeling has been that increased activity has been well worth the tradeoff in BGs, arenas, LFD, and LFR. Just like nobody would really prefer returning to the days of spamming /2 for three hours to run a heroic dungeon, or waiting 4 hours for your BG queue to pop, CRZ is a boon while leveling to everyone except those who were abusing the lack of population to farm things without competition.

[Nerraw]

Nope.

My point still stands, pretending I made a different one and ignoring my previous answers to your questions makes no difference.

Another thing, if servers really aren't servers anymore, why the complaint about not being able to find people again? If everyone's on the same server anyway, you can just go out and locate them like you were able to in the past on your own server.

[Moradim]

I play on a "carebear" server on most toons because I believe real pvp happens in arenas or bgs. I like being able to level without worrying about bored people at the level cap.

[Deleted]

You mean the "answers" where you claimed servers and servers, and realms aren't realms, because you might see players from other realms/servers due to CRZ?

Those weren't answers, those were semantic games that don't even hold up because it's pretty darn obvious there are still realms and servers, and that whatever you think those words mean does not actually reflect the reality.

That was the very first point I made on the thread. Go back and read, it's the only thing i've been talking about.

People have very right to complain about CRZ and every right to say it's not what they signed up to.

[thunderdragon2]

endus there isn't any risks for gankers not until there is either or all of the following are implemented:

Arial mobs that shoot people off their flying mounts to stop them from afk'ing in the air when 90's come to fight back or while waiting for a new lowbie to appear
after a certain amount of ganks flying amounts are unusable for 1 hour, if they want to camp some1 for 2 hrs straight they shouldn't be allowed to avoid pvp combat with people their level
after a certain amount of ganks hearthstones are but on cd., see above.

gankers are just people that cant deal with actual pvp so they take it out on lowbies

[Deleted]

Another thing, if servers really aren't servers anymore, why the complaint about not being able to find people again? If everyone's on the same server anyway, you can just go out and locate them like you were able to in the past on your own server.

What server? You don't get to pick where you are any more - the guy who ganekd you 5 minutes ago could be on he 15th inhteration fo azeroth on the left and you'll never know and never be able to see him unless you get lucky.

[Endus]

That was the very first point I made on the thread. Go back and read, it's the only thing i've been talking about.

People have very right to complain about CRZ and every right to say it's not what they signed up to.

What part?

The unfair ganking and camping that results? Nope, if they're on a PvP server, they signed up for that.

That it involves people from other realms? There was never any promise that it couldn't, so there was nothing to "sign on to" with regards to that. Above and beyond the fact that MMORPGs are inherently dynamic and change with every patch.

The stuff they signed on to a PvP server for, that's mentioned in the PvP realm policy? None of that was changed with CRZ. It just suddenly became more prevalent when there were enough people in the zone to make live busy again. That's the intended fix, though, not a mistake.

You're talking about some sense of server community, and WoW has been moving towards greater integration between realms since late Vanilla. This is just the most recent step down a years-old road, not a completely new path.

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 01:37 PM ----------

endus there isn't any risks for gankers not until there is either or all of the following are implemented:

The idea that there SHOULD be risks for gankers is simply not supported by any of the policies around PvP realms. That was never part of the promised gameplay.

That's the fundamentally untrue premise that the rest of your argument hinges upon, and it being not true (and it isn't) means the rest of it falls apart.

[Deleted]

What part?

The unfair ganking and camping that results? Nope, if they're on a PvP server, they signed up for that.

I didn't mention that.

That it involves people from other realms? There was never any promise that it couldn't, so there was nothing to "sign on to" with regards to that. Above and beyond the fact that MMORPGs are inherently dynamic and change with every patch.

It's inherent in the word "server" and the fact that the server had a name that you only interact with those people.

The stuff they signed on to a PvP server for, that's mentioned in the PvP realm policy? None of that was changed with CRZ. It just suddenly became more prevalent when there were enough people in the zone to make live busy again. That's the intended fix, though, not a mistake.p

PVP server policy only applies to pvp servers, which were all removed when CRZ went live.

You're talking about some sense of server community, and WoW has been moving towards greater integration between realms since late Vanilla. This is just the most recent step down a years-old road, not a completely new path.

I;m just being logical and factual.

Either -

People signed up to pvp servers - in which case both the pvp and the server bit are binding

or they didn't, in which case

Neither the pvp or the server bit are binding and blizzard can change anything they like. You don't get to pick the bits you like, it's a package deal.

So can you pick which position is correct?

[Endus]

What server? You don't get to pick where you are any more - the guy who ganekd you 5 minutes ago could be on he 15th inhteration fo azeroth on the left and you'll never know and never be able to see him unless you get lucky.

CRZ isn't dynamic. Certain zones are set to CRZ with certain other realms. If you got ganked in Blasted Lands, and the guy's still in the same version you are. If he left, you can't track him, but you couldn't track people on the opposite faction beforehand, anyway. There's still plenty of chance you'll see them again in old world content because, again, the same small group of servers are assigned together for CRZ. It's not dynamically taking people from any random server and lumping them together.

[Deleted]

CRZ isn't dynamic. Certain zones are set to CRZ with certain other realms. If you got ganked in Blasted Lands, and the guy's still in the same version you are. If he left, you can't track him, but you couldn't track people on the opposite faction beforehand, anyway. There's still plenty of chance you'll see them again in old world content because, again, the same small group of servers are assigned together for CRZ. It's not dynamically taking people from any random server and lumping them together.

You can track people on your server by the simple expedient of making a level 1 ally and /whoing their name. If they are on your server you can find them pretty easily. If they aren't on your server you can track them but without an equal level toon you won't be getting revenge.

For someone with such a strong opinion you don't seem to know much.

[Orange Joe]

Nope.

My point still stands, pretending I made a different one and ignoring my previous answers to your questions makes no difference.

You sound worse than a kid right now.... Your whole argument is based on how YOU define a word. I'm sorry but your argument is crap.

[Endus]

It's inherent in the word "server" and the fact that the server had a name that you only interact with those people.

Hasn't been true since 1.12.

PVP server policy only applies to pvp servers, which were all removed when CRZ went live.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/status#type=pvp

Look at all those PvP servers that you're claiming don't exist. You know better.

I;m just being logical and factual.

Either -

People signed up to pvp servers - in which case both the pvp and the server bit are binding

or they didn't, in which case

Neither the pvp or the server bit are binding and blizzard can change anything they like. You don't get to pick the bits you like, it's a package deal.

So can you pick which position is correct?

The correct position is that they signed up for a PvP server, in which case the PvP ruleset applies.

And that they were never promised that they would only ever play with people from their server, and that this hasn't been the case in the game in practice since 1.12, increasingly so.

Creating a false dilemma doesn't mean your two options are the only ones. Especially when you're basing it on the false premise that because of cross-realm content, servers "don't exist". Which is just fundamentally untrue to even a cursory glance, and you know it.

[thunderdragon2]

endus lets put it to u this way a ganker kills say 10-12 players then retreats to the air then 1 or more of those being ganked logs their main those mains cant do anything to the ganker coz hes safe in the air UNLESS any of those mains are a druid or a mage (slowfall) without splatting your self when you land yourself that is

if the ganker happens to be a druid trying to fight against him and getting him into a fight is pointless

[Deleted]

Hasn't been true since 1.12.



http://us.battle.net/wow/en/status#type=pvp

Look at all those PvP servers that you're claiming don't exist. You know better.


The correct position is that they signed up for a PvP server, in which case the PvP ruleset applies.

And that they were never promised that they would only ever play with people from their server, and that this hasn't been the case in the game in practice since 1.12, increasingly so.

Creating a false dilemma doesn't mean your two options are the only ones. Especially when you're basing it on the false premise that because of cross-realm content, servers "don't exist". Which is just fundamentally untrue to even a cursory glance, and you know it.

No no.

If they signed up for a pvp server, then yes the pvp ruleset applies, but also the server aspect applies.

You don't get to pick and choose what people signed up to.

I'll make it simpler - can blizzard change anything they like whenever they want because people signed up to it in the ToS at the log in screen?

[Orange Joe]

No no.

If they signed up for a pvp server, then yes the pvp ruleset applies, but also the server aspect applies.

You don't get to pick and choose what people signed up to.

I'll make it simpler - can blizzard change anything they like whenever they want because people signed up to it in the ToS at the log in screen?

what server aspect? Where was it that I could agree to it?

[Endus]

You can track people on your server by the simple expedient of making a level 1 ally and /whoing their name. If they are on your server you can find them pretty easily.

You can do the same on their server, you know.

If they aren't on your server you can track them but without an equal level toon you won't be getting revenge.

"Revenge" was never part of what you were promised. And, again, if they enter the old world zones that are CRZed, you CAN seek out that revenge. It's not dynamic; if you saw them in Blasted Lands once and they ganked you, and you check your level 1 and see they're in Blasted Lands again, you can pop to your main on your normal server, head there, and they'll be there waiting for you.

For someone with such a strong opinion you don't seem to know much.

You should probably just drop the ad hominem personal attacks. They don't contribute anything of worth, I've got a thick enough skin you aren't going to get the reaction you want, and that kind of behaviour isn't tolerated here.

[Deleted]

You can do the same on their server, you know.



"Revenge" was never part of what you were promised. And, again, if they enter the old world zones that are CRZed, you CAN seek out that revenge. It's not dynamic; if you saw them in Blasted Lands once and they ganked you, and you check your level 1 and see they're in Blasted Lands again, you can pop to your main on your normal server, head there, and they'll be there waiting for you.

Wrong, server is a promise for potential revenge. There is no guarantee that they will be in the same blasted lands - if it filled up in the meantime when you get there then you will be in a different one, that's how CRZ works, you see.

You should probably just drop the ad hominem personal attacks. They don't contribute anything of worth, I've got a thick enough skin you aren't going to get the reaction you want, and that kind of behaviour isn't tolerated here.

It wasn't an ad hominem, that would be saying "your argument is flawed because you are flawed" I didn't do that. I pointed out that you don't seem to know much. Which you dont. I'm also not aiming for a reaction, either.

[Deathgoose]

You can track people on your server by the simple expedient of making a level 1 ally and /whoing their name. If they are on your server you can find them pretty easily. If they aren't on your server you can track them but without an equal level toon you won't be getting revenge.

For someone with such a strong opinion you don't seem to know much.

And that right there was never the indended design of PvP servers. Originally, you rolled Horde, you played Horde. You rolled Alliance, you played Alliance. There was no rolling a level 1 alt spy to cheese things, but for some stupid reason, they changed that.

Just like you never used to be able to transfer a PvE leveled and geared guy to a PvP server, completely circumventing the 1-level cap experience. Again, for some stupid reason, they changed that.

Shit changes.

But given how LFD/LFR/BG/Arenas have been working for years (i.e. joining up people from different servers to share their gaming experience) to say that somehow CRZ violates the sacred bond of trust inherent in the word "server" or something is simply ludicrous. But hey, if you want to hang your argument on some kind of semantics chicanery, go right ahead, and let us know how that works out for you.

[Deleted]

And that right there was never the indended design of PvP servers. Originally, you rolled Horde, you played Horde. You rolled Alliance, you played Alliance. There was no rolling a level 1 alt spy to cheese things, but for some stupid reason, they changed that.

Just like you never used to be able to transfer a PvE leveled and geared guy to a PvP server, completely circumventing the 1-level cap experience. Again, for some stupid reason, they changed that.

Shit changes.

But given how LFD/LFR/BG/Arenas have been working for years (i.e. joining up people from different servers to share their gaming experience) to say that somehow CRZ violates the sacred bond of trust inherent in the word "server" or something is simply ludicrous. But hey, if you want to hang your argument on some kind of semantics chicanery, go right ahead, and let us know how that works out for you.

World merging a la CRZ is radically different to instanced and voluntary content. You don't pick your questing zone from a drop down menu.