Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Annoying]

The correct argument is "firearm injuries have higher fatality rates than stabbing injuries."

"Lethality" is just something you've conjured up similar to "assault weapon."

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We weren't talking about a knife fight.

1) The word "lethality" isn't something he conjured up. It's a word, with identical meanings to what you just said. It's a real measurement of how likely a weapon is to kill someone.

2) You were talking about blood stains on clothing and such from stabbing someone (or lack thereof). Which is a knife fight. Stop being such a pedant.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

First hand experience(I.E. Ancedote) doesn't trump science/research.

[Tinykong]

1) The word "lethality" isn't something he conjured up. It's a word, with identical meanings to what you just said. It's a real measurement of how likely a weapon is to kill someone.

I know it's a word, he's creating a new definition by adding all these qualifiers.

2) You were talking about blood stains on clothing and such from stabbing someone (or lack thereof). Which is a knife fight. Stop being such a pedant.

A fight implies a struggle. If you're sleeping, and I stab you through the rib cage into your chest cavity, has a fight taken place?

Stop being deliberately obtuse just to agree with another poster.

[Eroginous]

First hand experience(I.E. Ancedote) doesn't trump science/research.

100% of science research is based on first hand experience.

First hand experience > all.

[Cthulhu 2020]

And here comes Ero with his Knives > Guns spiel.

Makes me wonder why the go-to weapon for defense is guns, if knives are magical blades of wonderment, named for the volcano in which they were forged and tempered in the blood of Ethiopian slaves.

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100% of science research is based on first hand experience.

First hand experience > all.

A case 1500 GSW vs stabbings is a scientific study, your personal experience is an anecdote.

[Tinykong]

And here comes Ero with his Knives > Guns spiel.

Makes me wonder why the go-to weapon for defense is guns, if knives are magical blades of wonderment, named for the volcano in which they were forged and tempered in the blood of Ethiopian slaves.

For someone who cries about strawman every other post, you sure do like to build them against everyone else.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

100% of science research is based on first hand experience.

First hand experience > all.

Yeah but YOUR first hand experience is ancedotal so you can't use that to break an argument to pieces.

[Cthulhu 2020]

For someone who cries about strawman every other post, you sure do like to build them against everyone else.

My mistake, he's totally not arguing that in his personal experience knives are more effective. After all, it would be silly for someone to try and argue that.

[Eroginous]

Yeah but YOUR first hand experience is ancedotal so you can't use that to break an argument to pieces.

Anecdotal? I've been shooting guns since I was about 7 years old. It's telling that your only shooting experience is what a badly conducted study tells you.

[Jun]

The issue with guns vs knives boils down to commitment to kill.
Yes, they are both lethal. Highly so.
Though I am pro-gun ownership, it's hard to argue that you have to be more deliberate to kill someone with a knife than a gun.
The problem I see is that guns enable those who seek to cause harm more easily than a knife.
You have to be pretty damned determined to knife someone.
With a gun? A few moments of poor choice are all it takes.

I mean, how many times do you hear "so-and-so was accidentally killed by a knife" compared to "so-and-so was accidentally shot?"
Anecdotal, but regardless, I've never heard of an accidental knifing.

[Tinykong]

My mistake, he's totally not arguing that in his personal experience knives are more effective. After all, it would be silly for someone to try and argue that.

What does that have to do with pointing out how consistently hypocritical you are?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Anecdotal? I've been shooting guns since I was about 7 years old. It's telling that your only shooting experience is what a badly conducted study tells you.

Yeah and it's still ancedotal no matter how long you've been shooting guns.

[Eroginous]

Yeah and it's still ancedotal no matter how long you've been shooting guns.

See, here's the problem. Your 'scientific research' regarding GSW fatalities is based on 50 year old data. Data that wasn't collected through first hand experience. It's one thing to sit in a lab and shoot people with a gun to determine the fatality of a gun shot wound (this will never happen, though it would provide much more accurate numbers), it's something completely different to tally up GSW cases from 50 years ago and put together a 'study' making claims about the 'lethality' of firearms, at a time when medical technology and EMT response times were much more limited.

Furthermore, as an experienced shooter, I'm admitting how difficult it would be to shoot a lot of people in a public place, because it's difficult enough to shoot stationary targets, especially with a pistol. As soon as you introduce all the other factors that go into that sort of a situation, efficacy goes way down after the first few shots. I can't imagine a lot of people would just stand still waiting for you to get close, sight in, and then pull the trigger.

If you pull a knife on someone, it makes zero noise. Most people wouldn't even understand what was happening until they got stabbed.

It's not my personal experience that's the problem here. It's the fact that you've seen a number of action movies in your life, read a terrible study on the internet, and concluded that you're the expert while anyone with actual shooting experience is just 'anecdotal.'

[ugotownd]

Call me old-fashioned, but the thought and feeling of slicing through a chest cavity, or opening up a gigantic neck wound would be enough to make me puke. Pulling a three pound trigger would be much easier.

Shows you how much you know about handguns. The average pull is 6-6.5 lb. Doesn't shock me though people talking about stuff they don't know. Sort of like the anti-guns railing the cali killer. Lets blame the NRA for it. Everything in Cali law is exactly what was in the new law shot down.

Background checks on all purchases. Check
10 day wait on all handgun purchases. Check
assault weapon ban. Check
10rd mag limit. Check
registration of handguns. Check

Looks to me even if you beloved law made it though nothing would be diffrent but this is somehow the NRA's fault. If you want to blame somebody blame the police for not pursuing more in depth to the complaints against him or his doctors an the state for not updating the NICS database to show his mental status. Cant stop somebody from buying a gun if you fail at entering the needed data.

[Tinykong]

Your 'scientific research' regarding GSW fatalities is based on 50 year old data.

He cited a study on stabbings among inmates at Fulson Prison as the "3%" figure for knife wounds.

You shouldn't be surprised he'd use data from half a century ago.

[lockedout]

He cited a study on stabbings among inmates at Fulson Prison as the "3%" figure for knife wounds.

You shouldn't be surprised he'd use data from half a century ago.

I wonder how many of those stabbings were with an actual knife. Probably 0.

[Mayhem]

This isn't Dexter.

no, but the blood on you, your shoes, everything leaves marks, and that they possibly start reacting if you somehow weren´t able to make a clear cut would result in even more evidence pointing at you...

so killing someone sleeping, having all the time it needs, headshot from a distance, be gone and get rid of the weapon, very unlikely to be traced back to you, unless they somehow know that you own a weapon, what calibre you use and so on and so fort...

[Cthulhu 2020]

He cited a study on stabbings among inmates at Fulson Prison as the "3%" figure for knife wounds.

You shouldn't be surprised he'd use data from half a century ago.

Along with 19 other studies of more recent data.

But not including important information in your posts has been your MO for awhile.

[Eroginous]

I wonder how many of those stabbings were with an actual knife. Probably 0.

I'm not surprised 97% of prison stabbings were non fatal, hard to kill someone with a sharpened toothbrush.

no, but the blood on you, your shoes, everything leaves marks, and that they possibly start reacting if you somehow weren´t able to make a clear cut would result in even more evidence pointing at you...

so killing someone sleeping, having all the time it needs, headshot from a distance, be gone and get rid of the weapon, very unlikely to be traced back to you, unless they somehow know that you own a weapon, what calibre you use and so on and so fort...

Did you even read the part where he said this wasn't a TV show?

Along with 19 other studies of more recent data.

But not including important information in your posts has been your MO for awhile.

Any idiot can selectively put together data and call it a study. Any idiot can slap the word 'scientific' on a study to make it seem legit. Hell, any idiot can use terms like 'controls' in hopes that no scrutiny is applied to the studies they link.

I'm not asking you to be a scientist. I'm just asking that you stop posting studies unless you're willing to post something that's actually the result of scientific experiments. You know, someone in a lab ran thousands of tests and gathered unbiased data that wasn't controlled for the desired results.

[Ghostpanther]

.

I mean, how many times do you hear "so-and-so was accidentally killed by a knife" compared to "so-and-so was accidentally shot?"
Anecdotal, but regardless, I've never heard of an accidental knifing.

By knifing I can assume stabbing would also be a correct term? Accidental stabbings happen a lot. But they are not the type which makes the local news. But ask any emergency room surgeon and he will tell you it is not uncommon. However accidental killing by stabbing is very rare to the point of maybe being unheard of. But I do agree with the points made that knives overall are less likely to kill someone or as many, if guns are available. But those same criminals would switch to using knives in a heart beat if guns suddenly disappeared. Humans are a bit like the flow of electricity, which picks the path of least resistance.