Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[PhaelixWW]

Texas, reeling after El Paso shooting, is about to loosen gun laws

As I thought, you don't really have any source other than your own internal narrative.

That link you provided has absolutely nothing to do with being any easier to get a gun. Not that one law would substantiate your claim that many states have made it easier than ever to get a gun.

In terms of who can get a gun, what gun they are able to obtain, and how easy it is to obtain, the goalpost has honestly moved much more collectively towards the "difficult" end of the spectrum.

[Ghostpanther]

Update on the Dayton shooter....https://www.foxnews.com/us/dayton-oh...rm-prosecutors

A longtime friend of the Dayton gunman bought the body armor, a 100-round magazine, and a gun accessory used in a mass shooting, but there's no indication that the man knew that his friend was planning a massacre, federal agents said Monday.

Ethan Kollie first spoke with investigators just hours after the shooting and later said he bought the equipment and kept it at his apartment, so Connor Betts' parents would not find it, according to a court document.

Kollie also said that about 10 weeks ago he helped Betts assemble the AR-15 style gun used in the shooting, the court filing said.

Federal investigators emphasized that there was no evidence that Kollie knew how Betts would use the equipment or that Kollie intentionally took part in the planning.

Prosecutors accused Kollie of lying about not using marijuana on federal firearms forms in the purchase of a pistol that was not used in the shooting.

Possessing a firearm as an unlawful user of a controlled substance is a federal crime punishable by up to 10 years in prison. Making a false statement regarding firearms carries a potential maximum sentence of up to five years' imprisonment.

So the friend of the shooter is in a hemp load of shit for lying on his background check. And I read in another article, he also had a criminal record. Not sure if that is true and if it is, how the hell did that get missed in his background check?

[Redwyrm]

It does not scare the Republicans. Many of them also are on board for some reasonable gun control laws when it comes to background checks esp. But they also are strong believers in the Second Amendment. And laws that is passed , must ensure the rights of the people to keep and bear arms is preserved and that means any legal weapon, which is commonly used now, should be allowed. We can even legally possess machine guns. Costly however for the general public and one major reason you do not see many.

I call BULLSHITE on this. The Republican party is so piss in their pants scared of any action the NRA might do if they even bring up the words gun control measures it's not even funny at this point. And any semblence of willingness to discuss said measures is often just words and NEVER results in any ACTION. And the offending congressmen is usually primaried out of office by the money the NRA throws at their opponent. The day the NRA tosses out that rediculous rating system they have in regards to serving their own (the NRA's) interest is the day that they might be willing to bend towards reasonable gun control.

The NRA has become as big of a joke for the Right as PETA has been for the Left.

[Ghostpanther]

I call BULLSHITE on this. The Republican party is so piss in their pants scared of any action the NRA might do if they even bring up the words gun control measures it's not even funny at this point. And any semblence of willingness to discuss said measures is often just words and NEVER results in any ACTION. And the offending congressmen is usually primaried out of office by the money the NRA throws at their opponent. The day the NRA tosses out that rediculous rating system they have in regards to serving their own (the NRA's) interest is the day that they might be willing to bend towards reasonable gun control.

Call it bullshit all you want. Politically advocating for something is not limited to the NRA.

Ever heard of the Gun Owners of America? Harry Reid once called them worse than the NRA. They have a reported smaller membership than the NRA has reported, but are still a strong advocate for the Second Amendment. And here in Ohio, we have the Buckeye Firearm Association, which is actively involved in any gun legislature the state legislature is considering.

I am sure the Democrats have their groups advocating for their interests. This is politics 101.

[Redwyrm]

Call it bullshit all you want. Politically advocating for something is not limited to the NRA.

Ever heard of the Gun Owners of America? Harry Reid once called them worse than the NRA. They have a reported smaller membership than the NRA has reported, but are still a strong advocate for the Second Amendment. And here in Ohio, we have the Buckeye Firearm Association, which is actively involved in any gun legislature the state legislature is considering.

I am sure the Democrats have their groups advocating for their interests. This is politics 101.

It's money in politics and putting the interests of big business ahead of the welfare of the public. And it's wrong no matter which party does it. Lobbying is a cancer in our political system and nothing will get done while the money flows counter to the interests of the general public.

[Draco-Onis]

SNIP.

Iowa grants gun permits to the blind

Trump quietly used regulations to expand gun access

Trump made it easier for the mentally ill to get guns when he rolled back Obama regulation

Mass Shootings Don't Lead to Inaction—They Lead to Loosening Gun Restrictions

Here's how easy it is to legally buy a semiautomatic gun in the US

[kyoloco]

Iowa grants gun permits to the blind

Trump quietly used regulations to expand gun access

Trump made it easier for the mentally ill to get guns when he rolled back Obama regulation

Mass Shootings Don't Lead to Inaction—They Lead to Loosening Gun Restrictions

Here's how easy it is to legally buy a semiautomatic gun in the US

yeah i dont think im having children

[Ghostpanther]

It's money in politics and putting the interests of big business ahead of the welfare of the public. And it's wrong no matter which party does it. Lobbying is a cancer in our political system and nothing will get done while the money flows counter to the interests of the general public.

I understand your point. But it is something you can debate further in the Politics forum and/or contact your representatives about. Meanwhile, they exist.

[zenkai]

The problem with that discussion is what rights are rights. People are so full of hate, we must restrict everyones access to guns. And free speech doesn't mean hate speech or speech that harms feelings. Also the right to protections against baseless searchs hinders the ability of the government to monitor for hateful people, need to get rid of that. Double jeopardy is really sort of pointless when the people are full of hate. It's also well established that christians and jews and muslims have a lot of hate for each other, so the government needs to ban religion.

I'm 46 years old. If you want to raise the age to buy a gun to 25 because people age 18 to 24 aren't really adults, it wouldn't affect me. Raise the age to vote in the same way though, since they're certainly not adult enough to shape the government. Certainly the right of a free press has been abused to spread hate, best to crack down on that.

I know 18-year-olds that are more mature than 50-year-olds Age is just a number, maturity comes at how someone is raised combined with personal responsibility. My son is 23, has his own house and new car, pays his bills goes to work on time, I would trust him with a gun over most people.

- - - Updated - - -

I call BULLSHITE on this. The Republican party is so piss in their pants scared of any action the NRA might do if they even bring up the words gun control measures it's not even funny at this point. And any semblence of willingness to discuss said measures is often just words and NEVER results in any ACTION. And the offending congressmen is usually primaried out of office by the money the NRA throws at their opponent. The day the NRA tosses out that rediculous rating system they have in regards to serving their own (the NRA's) interest is the day that they might be willing to bend towards reasonable gun control.

The NRA has become as big of a joke for the Right as PETA has been for the Left.

This is typical bullshit liberal finger pointing at the NRA. Blame someone/something else for the problem and then label them as evil because you refuse to blame the real person. It's like blaming Ford when someone jumps in their car and purposely goes out and kills someone with their car, asinine.

[Stormdash]

Iowa grants gun permits to the blind

Trump quietly used regulations to expand gun access

Trump made it easier for the mentally ill to get guns when he rolled back Obama regulation

Mass Shootings Don't Lead to Inaction—They Lead to Loosening Gun Restrictions

Here's how easy it is to legally buy a semiautomatic gun in the US

I love how Obama could enact a rule that was a drastic, overbroad overreach - he is replaced and it gets rolled back without ever having been litigated against to have a court flat out clarify it was a drastic, overbroad overreach - and it gets covered like this rule was in the bedrock of our nation's legal system since the founding. What a fucking joke. The rule was trash, the country is better off without it, and there is no evidence it either prevented nor could have prevented since being rescinded, a single crime. It was just there as a new way to frustrate the right to keep and bear arms.

And "expanding" gun access and "ease" of purchase aren't flaws, they are features of a free society. The default? The ground state? Should be "full auto for sale at a lemonade stand". EVERY restriction is something that must be justified on its own merits, because ONLY restrictions must be justified. Citizens don't have to justify wanting or needing access to any kind of firearm at any time, because it is their right. All burdens of all proof are on the government, which gets no benefit of any doubt. Every restriction must serve a compelling interest and must be the least restrictive means of satisfying that interest. That's where the burden falls on the government when it wants to impede a fundamental right such as 2A.

[Draco-Onis]

snip.

Long winded way of saying I was right that it has gotten easier not harder to get a gun.

[Redwyrm]

This is typical bullshit liberal finger pointing at the NRA. Blame someone/something else for the problem and then label them as evil because you refuse to blame the real person. It's like blaming Ford when someone jumps in their car and purposely goes out and kills someone with their car, asinine.

You mean like blaming video games for gun violence? Between video games and the NRA I'll blame the NRA 10 out of 10 times. Because they have been actively blocking any discussion/debate/action/law/progress that might actually do something. And as long as they do we might as well keep our flags and half staff permanently because that's about as often as we have mass murders in this country. And I speak from experience because my grandmother was a victim of a mass murdering psycho who killed a total of eight people almost 40 years ago.

So FUCK the NRA for protecting the mentally ill murderer's rights to own firearms

[zenkai]

You mean like blaming video games for gun violence? Between video games and the NRA I'll blame the NRA 10 out of 10 times. Because they have been actively blocking any discussion/debate/action/law/progress that might actually do something. And as long as they do we might as well keep our flags and half staff permanently because that's about as often as we have mass murders in this country. And I speak from experience because my grandmother was a victim of a mass murdering psycho who killed a total of eight people almost 40 years ago.

So FUCK the NRA for protecting the mentally ill murderer's rights to own firearms

I agree blaming video games is bullshit as well, glad you are agreeing with me.

*Sorry for your loss, and we both know the only one to blame is the guy who carried out those actions

[Ghostpanther]

You mean like blaming video games for gun violence? Between video games and the NRA I'll blame the NRA 10 out of 10 times. Because they have been actively blocking any discussion/debate/action/law/progress that might actually do something. And as long as they do we might as well keep our flags and half staff permanently because that's about as often as we have mass murders in this country. And I speak from experience because my grandmother was a victim of a mass murdering psycho who killed a total of eight people almost 40 years ago.

So FUCK the NRA for protecting the mentally ill murderer's rights to own firearms

I also agree the blame should not be put on video games. And sorry for your lost.

But the NRA does not endorse people like the mass murderer in this case having firearms. He was a scum and only he is to blame for the tragic event which took the lives of 8 people.

[Svifnymr]

I know 18-year-olds that are more mature than 50-year-olds Age is just a number, maturity comes at how someone is raised combined with personal responsibility. My son is 23, has his own house and new car, pays his bills goes to work on time, I would trust him with a gun over most people.

Yeah, I work with a wide age range and we've got a couple 21 types that are serious and responsible, but also some 30 year olds that can't be counted on for anything other than playing on their phones. Just saying that age-as-maturity is a completely arbitrary process anyway, and letting 16 year olds drive a car is more dangerous than letting 21 year olds buy a handgun.

This is typical bullshit liberal finger pointing at the NRA. Blame someone/something else for the problem and then label them as evil because you refuse to blame the real person. It's like blaming Ford when someone jumps in their car and purposely goes out and kills someone with their car, asinine.

It has always been one of the central campaigns against the NRA to paint them as an organization that takes money from gun manufacturers and uses it to bribe officials. The fact that the NRAs power comes mostly from mobilizing a legion of voters is known to a few, but even among Republicans they're starting to forget. The idea that a pro-gun organization grades politicians for their pro-gun stance is amusing. Ah well.

- - - Updated - - -

You mean like blaming video games for gun violence?

I doubt you'll find many on this forum blaming video games, though you'll find plenty ignoring how many times it's been democrats doing the blaming. I also rarely see folks bring up Australia's video game ban/censorship laws.

Between video games and the NRA I'll blame the NRA 10 out of 10 times. Because they have been actively blocking any discussion/debate/action/law/progress that might actually do something.

The NRA has floated various background check laws to improve the system's record access, perhaps selfishly to get the system working faster, but they couldn't clear democrat blockades. So they stopped. They've worked with people on various bills throughout their political career, each one being promised as the last-great-common sense gun reform until it was followed by the next one.

And as long as they do we might as well keep our flags and half staff permanently because that's about as often as we have mass murders in this country. And I speak from experience because my grandmother was a victim of a mass murdering psycho who killed a total of eight people almost 40 years ago.

And you think the NRA had something to do with the laws in question at that time?

So FUCK the NRA for protecting the mentally ill murderer's rights to own firearms

When someone goes free because of a typo on a warrant, do you protest the Fourth Amendment for letting criminals go free? Or, more specifically, do you protest the ACLU?

[Fincayra]

I love how Obama could enact a rule that was a drastic, overbroad overreach - he is replaced and it gets rolled back without ever having been litigated against to have a court flat out clarify it was a drastic, overbroad overreach - and it gets covered like this rule was in the bedrock of our nation's legal system since the founding. What a fucking joke. The rule was trash, the country is better off without it, and there is no evidence it either prevented nor could have prevented since being rescinded, a single crime. It was just there as a new way to frustrate the right to keep and bear arms.

And "expanding" gun access and "ease" of purchase aren't flaws, they are features of a free society. The default? The ground state? Should be "full auto for sale at a lemonade stand". EVERY restriction is something that must be justified on its own merits, because ONLY restrictions must be justified. Citizens don't have to justify wanting or needing access to any kind of firearm at any time, because it is their right. All burdens of all proof are on the government, which gets no benefit of any doubt. Every restriction must serve a compelling interest and must be the least restrictive means of satisfying that interest. That's where the burden falls on the government when it wants to impede a fundamental right such as 2A.

dude, I'm pretty pro second amendment, but even I realize there are restrictions needed. Not everyone needs access to military style machine guns. The gun used in the vast amount of shootings in this country is miraculously ignored by most people when it comes to legislation: the semi automatic handgun. Everything else is a blip in statistics.

[Draco-Onis]

I doubt you'll find many on this forum blaming video games, though you'll find plenty ignoring how many times it's been democrats doing the blaming. I also rarely see folks bring up Australia's video game ban/censorship laws.

Donald Trump, Kevin McCarthy and Fox News are democrats? even if you were just talking about general censorship unrelated to guns no one is more gun ho about that especially when it comes to sex in games than republicans.

[PhaelixWW]

Iowa grants gun permits to the blind

If you'd bothered to read your own articles, you'd realize that despite your failed attempt to understand the headline, what it's really saying is that Iowa, like other states, is continuing to grant gun permits to the blind, as doing otherwise would be illegal discrimination. This is not a change, it's the same as it's always been.

Trump quietly used regulations to expand gun access

This article starts off by talking about firearm transportation and shipping firearms overseas. It only gets into an applicable territory when it talks about him rolling back the provision which converted many SSI recipients into a prohibited class. That rule, mind you, lasted exactly forty days. So no, it wasn't really made easier, it was simply put back the way it was a few weeks earlier.

Trump made it easier for the mentally ill to get guns when he rolled back Obama regulation

Oh, look, another article about the exact same thing. I'm sooo glad you bother to read your own articles. I might add, also, that the ACLU as well as many other civil liberty and disability advocates strongly disagreed with the original ruling and cheered when it was was repealed.

Mass Shootings Don't Lead to Inaction—They Lead to Loosening Gun Restrictions

Most of this article does the same as previous ones; it talks about transportation and location restrictions, not about obtaining a firearm. The only part of this article that touches on that is stating that Wisconsin did away with a 48-hour waiting period for handguns. How about I counter that with Illinois extending their 3-day waiting period to cover all firearms,Washington extending their 10-day waiting period to cover semi-automatic rifles, and New York extending their 3-day waiting period for delayed transactions to 30 days.

Here's how easy it is to legally buy a semiautomatic gun in the US

And this article has nothing to do with anything becoming faster or easier. It just arbitrarily states that it's "easy" based on nothing more than opinion. But these are the same or even more rigorous background checks being performed than were done before. It may be a bit of a faster process due to advances in the system via electronic input and response, but that's about it.

So yeah, try again, champ.

- - - Updated - - -

dude, I'm pretty pro second amendment, but even I realize there are restrictions needed. Not everyone needs access to military style machine guns. The gun used in the vast amount of shootings in this country is miraculously ignored by most people when it comes to legislation: the semi automatic handgun. Everything else is a blip in statistics.

His point wasn't that everyone should be able to have full-auto firearms made available at lemonade stands. His point was that any step to limit both option and availability should have to be eminently justifiable, and not just on a "we shouldn't have these" basis.

I think most of us feel that there's enough basis to warrant restricting access to full-auto firearms and for firearms to not be made available at lemonade stands.

[Svifnymr]

Donald Trump, Kevin McCarthy and Fox News are democrats? even if you were just talking about general censorship unrelated to guns no one is more gun ho about that especially when it comes to sex in games than republicans.

The world didn't start 2 years ago. This has been a thing for decades.

[Draco-Onis]

The world didn't start 2 years ago. This has been a thing for decades.

Wrong, blaming violent video games, movies, evils of rap music and "gang glorification" is such an right wing line it's a cliche. It's part of the plan to talk about anything but guns which democrats are always talking about, sure there have been some blue dog democrats who towed the line but this is a right wing talking point. I am not sure where you have been living this is the second time people here want to stick everything they don't like on democrats ignoring reality.