Obama Exercises Executive Actions

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah because history has a long history of great countries who used government force to disallow political dissent. If only we could go the glory route of Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union. The loss of rights and quality of life for the citizens who are fortunate enough to survive the purge are a small price to pay for having an efficient decision making process.

And again, calling a political play that goes against what you want to happen "sabotage" is just anti-intellectual and pointless, since the other side can use the same label, and then you just degenerate into the same sort of closed-minded non-discussions that you are ostensibly criticizing.

I don't think that's what we're saying. We're saying the fact people just block apporval of someone of this...agency or w/e I suck at words. I'm not even remotely saying we should start silencing political dissent. No I am not and never will. People should have the right to speak their minds but people really need to stop being ignorant and immature and all that stuff that is not constructive.

Best I could come up with.

[mistuhbull]

Kinda hyperbolic don't you think? He's saying there should be more common ground between the sides, not that one side should shut up. Both sides know the ATF is worth keeping around. One side just doesn't want to allow it to have a leader, rather than working to find a leader both sides will be happy with.

Well actually...

But the National Association for Gun Rights in Fort Collins, Colo., called Traver an "anti-gun thug … an enemy of liberty and an enemy of gun owners," in the words of its executive director, Dudley Brown. He said the group would "like to repeal the ability of the ATF to even exist."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...-andrew-traver

[Magpai]

Kinda hyperbolic don't you think? He's saying there should be more common ground between the sides, not that one side should shut up. Both sides know the ATF is worth keeping around. One side just doesn't want to allow it to have a leader, rather than working to find a leader both sides will be happy with.

I don't think that's what we're saying. We're saying the fact people just block apporval of someone of this...agency or w/e I suck at words. I'm not even remotely saying we should start silencing political dissent. No I am not and never will. People should have the right to speak their minds but people really need to stop being ignorant and immature and all that stuff that is not constructive.

Best I could come up with.

To both of you: This line of talk had root in comments calling the refusal to confirm an act of illegal sabotage. I don't remember who all was saying it -- maybe neither of you -- nor can I be sure how serious they were, but at least one person (in the post I quoted in the post that you two both quoted) has continued to refer to it as sabotage. And it was compared early on to ILLEGAL sabotage, so it's not just a buzz word being used; they were making these Congresspersons out to be lawbreakers for exercising this power.

That's the first step. One party dictatorships don't come out and say "We will now shoot, through the forehead, anyone who disagrees with us politically, so long as this great nation stands upon our Mother Earth!" They lie and disguise their stifling of dissent as the prosecution of criminals, or the commitment/institutionalization of "mentally unsound" political detractors. I'm not saying this is what I think will happen in our country; but the mentality in the post that I quoted in the post that you quoted in turn - that is to say, the labeling of an unfavored political action as sabotage against the good of the country, and SPECIFICALLY calling it illegal, I didn't paraphrase that - WILL lead us there if it ever takes hold.

---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 01:15 AM ----------

What the fuck do Nazi Germany and the USSR have to do with this?
It's not about using government force to stop people from disagreeing with you.
It's about using the power of the people to stop parties from sabotaging the political process because they want it "all or nothing".

So once again: It's not about their opinion, but on how they are forcing their opinion without any political discussion or concessions at all.

If you can't see the parallel, even if exaggerated, between a) referring to a political action you don't like as "illegal sabotage" because it goes against what you believe is the good of the country and b) totalitarian dictatorships, then I'm certainly not going to be able to get through to you on this forum.

[Mormolyce]

*snip*

That in summary, is why I side with the man you call a joke. Because I believe in the wellfare of this country and coming to compromises more than I believe in adhering to some kind of ridiculous and rigid ideology. Ideology is the realm of small men with closed minds. Obama runs this country as a conservative twenty years ago would have. He pushes for laws proposed in the 1980s and 1990s by conservatives.

Haha, I like this guy ^

It should scare the absolute crap out of Republicans that a man like Colin Powell, who back in 1996 many Republicans got down on their knees and prayed would run for President, and who before Obama, everyone was ABSOLUTELY SURE, was the only black man of national stature who could win the Presidency in our country, has voted for Obama twice, very publically, and assailed the Republican Party as it exists now.

I always felt sorry for poor Colin Powell. He seemed like a good man in a bad government.

[mistuhbull]

To both of you: This line of talk had root in comments calling the refusal to confirm an act of illegal sabotage. I don't remember who all was saying it -- maybe neither of you -- nor can I be sure how serious they were, but at least one person (in the post I quoted in the post that you two both quoted) has continued to refer to it as sabotage. And it was compared early on to ILLEGAL sabotage, so it's not just a buzz word being used; they were making these Congresspersons out to be lawbreakers for exercising this power.

That's the first step. One party dictatorships don't come out and say "We will now shoot, through the forehead, anyone who disagrees with us politically, so long as this great nation stands upon our Mother Earth!" They lie and disguise their stifling of dissent as the prosecution of criminals, or the commitment/institutionalization of "mentally unsound" political detractors. I'm not saying this is what I think will happen in our country; but the mentality in the post that I quoted in the post that you quoted in turn - that is to say, the labeling of an unfavored political action as sabotage against the good of the country, and SPECIFICALLY calling it illegal, I didn't paraphrase that - WILL lead us there if it ever takes hold.

---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 01:15 AM ----------



If you can't see the parallel, even if exaggerated, between a) referring to a political action you don't like as "illegal sabotage" because it goes against what you believe is the good of the country and b) totalitarian dictatorships, then I'm certainly not going to be able to get through to you on this forum.

And that you don't see the difference between a political action and refusing to appoint a head of the ATF for six years is ridiculous

[mistuhbull]

You know what the appropriate thing to do if you don't like who the president is appointing? You let it come to a vote, you vote against it and voice why. If you win that vote congratulations, you drove your point and then you just keep rejecting till they pick someone you like.

But to not even allow the vote because you think you won't win is childish and destructive.

[Wells]

Its worth noting that since the NRA successfully lobbied for requiring senate approval for an ATF Director there hasn't been an ATF Director.

I mean seriously, the NRA is almost comically evil.

[Xisa]

My one concern is medical professionals not in the mental health field inquiring about gun ownership in the home. Not their business, and they have no need or reason to ask or be allowed to know.

Outside of that, this is largely enforcement of existing law and making sure background checks actually mean something.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Its worth noting that since the NRA successfully lobbied for requiring senate approval for an ATF Director there hasn't been an ATF Director.

I mean seriously, the NRA is almost comically evil.

They seem to like their guns.

[Baelic]

In this thread: Obama actually does Presidential stuff, a large portion of the populace complains.

Obama is doing what he feels should be done to streamline/improve things, nothing from that list should be worrisome... mostly looks like bureaucratic red tape that he's cutting.

[Wells]

My one concern is medical professionals not in the mental health field inquiring about gun ownership in the home. Not their business, and they have no need or reason to ask or be allowed to know.

Outside of that, this is largely enforcement of existing law and making sure background checks actually mean something.

So when they ask just don't tell them. You don't have to.

I mean when you take a kid to the pediatrician for a check up its not uncommon for the doctor to check with the parents on basic safety stuff like where they're storing medicine and the like. Talking with patients and patients' guardians about some basic house hold safety is perfectly reasonable.

[Xisa]

So when they ask just don't tell them. You don't have to.

I mean when you take a kid to the pediatrician for a check up its not uncommon for the doctor to check with the parents on basic safety stuff like where they're storing medicine and the like. Talking with patients and patients' guardians about some basic house hold safety is perfectly reasonable.

I disagree with that. The best way to erode any kind of freedom is to immerse the children of a generation in an environment where that Freedom is removed voluntarily by unthinking masses, and they will grow up not knowing what they've lost.

The Political parties playing this game know you can't win all at once. They are doing it, one step at a time, letting it roll in.

[Magpai]

And that you don't see the difference between a political action and refusing to appoint a head of the ATF for six years is ridiculous

I explicitly said, in reply to an earlier post of yours, that I don't agree with their decision.

[mistuhbull]

I explicitly said, in reply to an earlier post of yours, that I don't agree with their decision.

And yet you keep trying to assert that it's just a difference in political opinion. Just a small political play.

[Wells]

I disagree with that. The best way to erode any kind of freedom is to immerse the children of a generation in an environment where that Freedom is removed voluntarily by unthinking masses, and they will grow up not knowing what they've lost.

The Political parties playing this game know you can't win all at once. They are doing it, one step at a time, letting it roll in.

Wait so you think freedom is being eroded when your doctor checks with you about how you're storing your guns?

[mistuhbull]

Wait so you think freedom is being eroded when your doctor checks with you about how you're storing your guns?

didn't you hear, The Party wants to destroy America and enslave us all

[Wells]

I mean I really can't emphasize how fucking awful the NRA is.

They're constantly going on about how we just need to enforce the laws on the books while getting laws passed that make it nearly impossible for the ATF to enforce the laws on the books.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I mean I really can't emphasize how fucking awful the NRA is.

They're constantly going on about how we just need to enforce the laws on the books while getting laws passed that make it nearly impossible for the ATF to enforce the laws on the books.

Second Amendment Second Amendment right to bear arms right to bear arms! Obama coming for our guns, executive order! Guns aren't dangerous people are dangerous! Beware government that forces you not to think and just obey! (That last line is hilariously ironic coming from the extreme right)

[Sky High]

LocationBoston, MA

odds you're an actual "converted" republican .01%

oh, a rebuttal for the ages(and when i say that i mean one of the most half assed and nonsensical iv seen and probably will ever see). lemme guess. YOU think everyone here in Cali is a tree hugging democrat too right? am i right? and i should ONLY assume everyone in YOUR state is a member of the GOP?

---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 07:42 PM ----------

I mean I really can't emphasize how fucking awful the NRA is.

They're constantly going on about how we just need to enforce the laws on the books while getting laws passed that make it nearly impossible for the ATF to enforce the laws on the books.

the whole fiasco that was brought up with F&F was that the feds/ATF couldn't do their job at getting the guns when they had the chance, ya know why?
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...furious-truth/

[oblivionx]

In this thread: Obama actually does Presidential stuff, a large portion of the populace complains.

Obama is doing what he feels should be done to streamline/improve things, nothing from that list should be worrisome... mostly looks like bureaucratic red tape that he's cutting.

In this thread: Obama does more of what the dems spent 8 years crying and moaning that Bush did but now it's a chorus of cheers and worship.