What the hell is wrong with the alliance?

[Deleted]

Why are you reading this thread and then replying to it?

And the answer to your silly question (that wasn't even a question since you didn't use a question mark) is that people enjoy storytelling in games - and right now the Alliance story telling is substandard. So people get upset when the Horde storyline is blatantly getting a lot more attention.

Now kindly go away, considering you apperently have better things to concern yourself with.

Whoa! So offensive, did I hurt you by asking why people treat lore that seriously? I just wanted to see why people have to act like that about something imaginary the same way someone would act irl about something serious... The thread's title is "What's wrong with the alliance?" and then I enter the thread to see something constructive and then I see this "SHUT THE HELL UP AND STOP COMPLAINING, AND INSTEAD, APPRECIATE JUST HOW GOOD YOU HAVE IT YOU UNGRATEFUL WHELPS". I can't help but wonder... "What's wrong with people on the internet?" (Here is a question mark too).

Now I will take your advise and leave this thread before this turns into a flame war just because of different opinions...

[Destinas]

I have dedicated a lot of time too on this game, it's a really fun game yes but acting so passionate as if it's real life it starts to get scary and creepy. We all enjoy the story but it's not like I will go on forums and swear at the other faction just because the game decided to be favorable to the other's side this expansion...
Also to the OP - You say what's wrong with the alliance? I could say the same to Horde with "Green Jesus" as they call him in Cataclysm.

People need to wake up sometimes, it's fun supporting your faction but not like this... it's no different than being a dangerous fanatic for a sports team and beating up anyone that will say your team sucks. (Since you tried to use the "passionate about other hobbies" card).

I was actually going to use sports as part of my "card" but I felt I had made my point. And clearly I haven't, since you seem to still be in the dark about this. Being passionate is fine. That's not the way you operate, and that's fine too. Not everyone is attacking one another over lore and what they do or do not like. Those that do outright attack or insult each other are, obviously, extremely passionate. But, you sound like you're condemning people for enjoying the story one way or another. At this point, you're no better for calling people creepy and scary.

[thunderdragon2]

What movies?

i dono ask the guy i quoted as he seems to know a lot about the movie

[leaks]

Cause... you don't like or care for the lore..., is like a movie, every movie need a good story (well almost all good movies)

Yeah that must be it...

[Deleted]

You can't say that the alliance does not get lore. Within the alliance' story you have character development as well as a progression of the story itself. Both are represented well in the books and the other literature.
The problem lies therefore not within the lore development but in the presentation of it in the game.

Just a short example, in the 5.1 scenarios as a horde palyer you play with Vol'jin from beginning to end. You protect him, he protects you, you fight with him every trash mob and at the end you save his life. In a nutshell you interact directly with him the entire time.
In the equivalent alliance scenario Tyrande and Varian have a conversation while you stand next to them, not being really involved. At the end you get another dialogue between them. That's it. No fighting with them and no interaction during the whole scenario. Just talking.
There are a lot of other situation similar to this. (Silver pine vs Westfall, Ashenvale vs Stonetalon, etc.)

You have the lore but no connection with any important character in the game. Blizzard is capable of telling the story in an interactive way. So I really don't know why Blizzard does it scarcely on alliance side. Is there a reason for designing them differently? Is it more complicated placing a Tyrande-Model in Ashenvale than a Sylvanas-Model in the Silver Pine Forest?

[LTCrystallite]

You can't say that the alliance does not get lore. Within the alliance' story you have character development as well as a progression of the story itself. Both are represented well in the books and the other literature.
The problem lies therefore not within the lore development but in the presentation of it in the game.

Just a short example, in the 5.1 scenarios as a horde palyer you play with Vol'jin from beginning to end. You protect him, he protects you, you fight with him every trash mob and at the end you save his life. In a nutshell you interact directly with him the entire time.
In the equivalent alliance scenario Tyrande and Varian have a conversation while you stand next to them, not being really involved. At the end you get another dialogue between them. That's it. No fighting with them and no interaction during the whole scenario. Just talking.
There are a lot of other situation similar to this. (Silver pine vs Westfall, Ashenvale vs Stonetalon, etc.)

You have the lore but no connection with any important character in the game. Blizzard is capable of telling the story in an interactive way. So I really don't know why Blizzard does it scarcely on alliance side. Is there a reason for designing them differently? Is it more complicated placing a Tyrande-Model in Ashenvale than a Sylvanas-Model in the Silver Pine Forest?

god dammit, Nappa.

To be quite honest, Horde are just more lively than alliance are, and that's mainly just because of flavor. People like otherworldly aliens and huge cows and trolls and the undead over humans and gnomes and dwarves and elves. The problem is that the original 4 alliance races are the cliche fantasy races, and Night Elves are the only distinct variant of that cliche. Orcs and Trolls are unique due to how many archetypes they come in, Tauren aren't minotaurs and they're strong but spiritual, the Forsaken are a specific breed of undead with the lore tracing back to one of Kil'jaeden's creations (LK), etc.

If they found a better niche for the races somewhere in the story, things might be better. Draenei are hella cool with a lot of potential, seeing how they're space goats with crystal technology, but even they haven't had much done with them.

[Sukhoi]

So complain still when they have focus on the xpac, what the hell is wrong the horde?

[mmines]

Because we've been shat on ever since 4.0. Now we have a chance to get back what's been lost, and Blizz is going to muck it up because "We can't have Alliance questing in Lordaeron."

According to people over on the official forums way back during those horde favoritism threads it didn't matter how good the alliance had it in previous expansions what mattered was now. So why is it different when it's the other way around? Honestly a lot of this stuff doesn't actually matter unless it effects gameplay imo. The rest are subjective matters. The only thing that I feel matters are the krasarang wilds rares. I thought it seemed like the alliances rares had way to many mobs around them.

The biggest thing that I think sucks is that the alliance shouldn't be helping us. They should be seizing this opportunity to strike org while we're all fighting among ourselves. I would have loved to see different raids for alliance and horde this last patch dealing with the horde siege and alliance attack. Not sure how it would have been done but i'm sure they would have thought up something good. Reason being is because what happens after MoP between the Horde and Alliance? Are we expose to be friends now?

[Orkwuzhere]

once the kor'kron are dealt with in the undercity i would be more worried about sylvanas taking over the entire eastern kingdoms than worrying about not having an alliance quest hub in lordaeron :S

I'm much more worried about Sylvanas being very active in MoP because she's my least favorite character.

[Zenny]

Personally I think that the Horde has had a bit more of love thrown to it over the years, HOWEVER some people are blowing this entire thing out of proportion in this thread.

[Talen]

We all enjoy the story

I think thats the problem.

A lot of Alliance DON'T enjoy the story because of the lack of progression, story, development of their faction - combined with the negative endings of so many questlines and stories - means they are getting fed up and disconnected from the game. They like the game, they still are Alliance fans, they still want to see their factionss do well....but there isn't really anything there in the story for them to work with.

What they've got is involvement in a story that is driven by Horde actions and serves Horde goals. And that isn't the same.

Or to put it another way.....do you think soccer fans would be happy if, during the game, they were told by the ref they had to switch sides and start shooting at their open goal? They are still involved in the game, they are still shooting at a goal with an eye to scoring, but their efforts end up rewarding the opposing team.

Also to the OP - You say what's wrong with the alliance? I could say the same to Horde with "Green Jesus" as they call him in Cataclysm.

No - that'd be "What's wrong with Thrall". And we know - MASSIVE overexposure, lack of development as a neutral character, an extreme and undeserved powerup and the way he got his nose stuck into every storyline to the detriment of every other single NPC in the game.

People need to wake up sometimes, it's fun supporting your faction but not like this... it's no different than being a dangerous fanatic for a sports team and beating up anyone that will say your team sucks. (Since you tried to use the "passionate about other hobbies" card).

Its fun supporting your faction - by accepting the lack of story, progression and development? By being happy at the way they have to help their enemies? By cheering the sheer lack of relative quality in quests and story? By swooning in ecstasy at seeing every single "positive" step tainted by a negative outcome?

Alliance have a right to complain after three years of such treatment.

EJL

[Daswolfen]

Also to the OP - You say what's wrong with the alliance? I could say the same to Horde with "Green Jesus" as they call him in Cataclysm.

Careful what you say about Orc Jesus. If Tarssk sees that, he will declare a fatwa on you for impugning his lord and savoir.

[Almatari]

I think in summation: More visible and persistent representations of the Alliance plot/victories in-game, not just in extended book lore.

I've felt this way for years now. The lore of Warcraft began with a video game, it should continue in a video game. People argue that the Alliance narrative and plot gets represented in the books but that's not enough and in some ways, it's almost an alternate universe of Warcraft. Persistent in-game evidence validates the books without having to read the damn things. I'm all for a good book but I have better things to read. It's like doing Warcraft homework. Screw that.

I find the books to be Metzen's lazy way of passing off the task of writing the boring lore and keeping all the "cool stuff" for himself to add in-game. I'm so tired of it.

[Deleted]

You people all suck, Who cares if what I get to play is for the greater good of the alliance or garrosh?

I, for one, simply enjoy what's handed to me instead of whining how it's not centered on me and my gang, hell, if varian gets killed and Garrosh lives, who gives a fuck, just play the story, it'll keep developing and people will keep whining non stop.

Because Blizzard isn't writing a story of how King Wrynn stomps Orgrimmar or anything of the sorts doesn't mean we don't get good story.

The alliance is much more brutal than you'd know, hell, they're even more brutal than the Horde.
Don't like the alliance? You'll get kicked out, don't care where you go, if you stand against us, you die.

Garrosh on the other hand is a paranoid orc who's afraid he doesn't get what he want, well, awesome.

Sure, he gets to be the bad guy, but he's pathetic, I'd rather stick with King Wrynn for now.

[The Stormbringer]

I think in summation: More visible and persistent representations of the Alliance plot/victories in-game, not just in extended book lore.

I've felt this way for years now. The lore of Warcraft began with a video game, it should continue in a video game. People argue that the Alliance narrative and plot gets represented in the books but that's not enough and in some ways, it's almost an alternate universe of Warcraft. Persistent in-game evidence validates the books without having to read the damn things. I'm all for a good book but I have better things to read. It's like doing Warcraft homework. Screw that.

I find the books to be Metzen's lazy way of passing off the task of writing the boring lore and keeping all the "cool stuff" for himself to add in-game. I'm so tired of it.

I, for one, was very, very disappointed with the Theramore Scenario. I'm not even sure how they could screw it up when, IN THE BOOK, there was section about how adventurers came in and helped out. Why didn't they just use that? It also strikes me as lazy at what they've been doing, and that's one of the bigger things that had upset me about their recent lore decisions.

[Aquamonkey]

I, for one, was very, very disappointed with the Theramore Scenario. I'm not even sure how they could screw it up when, IN THE BOOK, there was section about how adventurers came in and helped out. Why didn't they just use that? It also strikes me as lazy at what they've been doing, and that's one of the bigger things that had upset me about their recent lore decisions.

Wasn't the Alliance Theramore scenario game only and non-canon? Added only for gameplay balance so the Alliance would have something too?

[Daswolfen]

Wasn't the Alliance Theramore scenario game only and non-canon? Added only for gameplay balance so the Alliance would have something too?

That giant hole in the ground that is there after you do the scenario is proof it really happened.

[Darmalus]

Wasn't the Alliance Theramore scenario game only and non-canon? Added only for gameplay balance so the Alliance would have something too?

Yeah. As I remember after the Mana Bomb went off the only one around was Jaina. No humans, no orcs, nobody was going near the glowing crater.

A more sensible thing, to me, would have been to have both sides take place at the same time. Have the Alliance side fight off wave after wave of Horde soldiers. They "win" and the Horde forces go into full retreat. Then you do the cinematic of the bomb exploding. Nearby Alliance mage opens a portal to evacuate the survivors. The Horde one can just play out normally.

[Synros]

I'm Horde, and I agree 100% Alliance have gotten fucked for good lore and progress this Xpac.

[Aquamonkey]

That giant hole in the ground that is there after you do the scenario is proof it really happened.

Perhaps you are confused. The Horde scenario happens before the bombing and is referenced in the novel. The Alliance scenario (to which I was referring) happens after the bombing and contradicts the events of the novel. The book just has her alone, killing a small scouting party sent to confirm the bomb's success, then finding and taking the Focusing Iris. The Alliance scenario has you defend Jaina against marauding Horde troops. It was shoehorned in to give Alliance players something to do.