Will ESO being sub based affect WoW?

[Lukazor]

I was really interested in Wildstar, before it was announced it was going to be sub based and I was really interested in ESO... until it was announced it will be sub based...

I will remain subscribed to WoW because lets face it, neither Wildstar or ESO will be as good as WoW or will warrant spending £8.99 a month to play.

Once they go free to play, and they will do, I might check them out.

[Archermit]

A lot of people look at star wars as the failer to sub based games. It didn't fail due to dub module, it failed cause the game after you hit max level

[mauserr]

Gw2 hitted very hard.

FF14/Teso/Wildstar/Next gen consoles all together will hit very very hard.

I bet on 2,5 M Active sub (no bots/not free trial) by the next summer.

I hope new XPAC ll bring players back.

This Xpax has to be perfect.

GW2 hit very hard? This must be a joke, right? I've seen all the retards anticipating GW2 being WoW's demise yet it wasn't even close to it... I'd say GW2 is mediocre, and the only thing I find interesting in there are voice-acted quest descriptions, and that's it. Another shitty game which hype was based on it's predecessor or the game's universe that turned out to be junk once released.

[Granyala]

I think both Wildstar and ESO will fall on their bums relatively quickly and go F2P, like all the other MMOs before it.

Personally I find the art direction of Wildstar to be plain simply unappealing and ugly.
As far as ESO goes: The trailer didn't impress me the least and I also know how weird skyrim and oblivions combat systems were. I think I'll pass.

In this day and age, there is just way to much to play out there to warrant a static sub fee.
WoW only gets away with it, due to the fact that many peeps love their characters and don't want to see them go. If it would start fresh today, it would struggle too.

The subscription model is simply outdated.

[theWocky]

You can quote me on this.

Game will start off sub-based and then the same pattern that other suspected "WoW killer" (not necessarily true, but often this title is inherited) games have faced will occur.

WoW will lose a few subs /or just have less people playing it for a bit. Some WoW players as well as Elder Scrolls on-line fans will try TESO, but will then miss their friends (who didn't move) and some will go back to WoW. Some will stay.

WoW's death will not be due to one game, but due to many F2P games chipping at it's subscriber base.

TESO Game will go F2P in 1~2 years. Game will be fine as it will probably retain die-hard Elder Scrolls fans as long as they go F2P.

This is just my opinion on how I see it going. Same applies to Wildstar. Games will go F2P sooner if both TESO and Wildstar are released in a similar time period.

WoW is more than just a computer game - it's a social network. New games don't necessarily have this.

Paying us$60 and then us$15 a month is just the way these companies try to maximize revenue. Personally, I'm waiting for TESO and Wildstar to go F2P before looking at them.

Just too many damn good F2P games out there at the moment to bother. Once the idea that a sub-based game is viable is removed from the market, mmo game quality and "fairness" of payment models will improve.

Quality of products and increased rate of content will improve as well as each company struggles to attract new and retain old players. The side effect will be that most mmo's will eventually only have a five year life. This is how I see it.

EDIT: from what I've seen of TESO, the animations look goddam awful. Graphics as "average". I prefer the look of Wildstar - it looks like how I imagine WoW would look with an updated engine.

[hrugner]

GW2 hit very hard? This must be a joke, right? I've seen all the retards anticipating GW2 being WoW's demise yet it wasn't even close to it... I'd say GW2 is mediocre, and the only thing I find interesting in there are voice-acted quest descriptions, and that's it. Another shitty game which hype was based on it's predecessor or the game's universe that turned out to be junk once released.

Regardless of your opinion of the game, GW2 is being taken seriously enough by Blizzard to attempt to emulate their open world content style in the only zone in the upcoming patch. Also, the game is packed to overflowing even on my low population server right up to the next patch comes up and it's even more full. People are playing the game enough for Blizzard to notice.

I don't think ESO has the same possibility of becoming a person's new go-to game though, as the sub encourages a "full investment or quit" attitude.

[Evil Inside]

Just to clarify this not nor do I want it to be a "WoW is dying" thread.

With ESO being confirmed as p2p with a $15 subscription fee how do we think this could affect WoW's players base, if at all? I know that I'm very interested to play ESO, but being unable to afford two monthly subscriptions it'll be unlikely that I'll be able to play both.

As I'm still enjoying wow I doubt I'll unsub for ESO but it made me wonder if maybe other people in a similar position would?

I dont think so, the effect will be minimal at most. Wow will still be the sub-mmo giant that it's been for the past 8 years.

[Deleted]

Oh, I'm not sure it's all that stupid although it could be if it backfires and people say 'fuck it' and don't sign up at all. To the extent that they advertise and talk about the benefits of a subscription game while probably having a plan in place about going to F2P it's a little bit dishonest. But if you want a lot of money in a hurry, hype the game all you can, get people to subscribe and you can make your costs back in a relatively short time. It's pretty cynical and smacks a little of bait-and-switch but I might be coming down on them too hard. Maybe being a console MMO will work like gangbusters for them.

Pretty much this. It's a bit hard as a consumer to trust on MMO model made just to gain fast cash and then ending up suffering on the endgame like all the past MMOs.

[theWocky]

Regardless of your opinion of the game, GW2 is being taken seriously enough by Blizzard to attempt to emulate their open world content style in the only zone in the upcoming patch. Also, the game is packed to overflowing even on my low population server right up to the next patch comes up and it's even more full. People are playing the game enough for Blizzard to notice.

I don't think ESO has the same possibility of becoming a person's new go-to game though, as the sub encourages a "full investment or quit" attitude.

I agree - I am in the process of doing a graphic comparison between about 10+ mmo's I jump between and was pleasantly surprised to log on and see so much new content in GW2 as well as seeing so many players in-game. Many of the F2P games are really bustling with activity!

[Deleted]

I don't think so.
Most of the quitters will prolly try it and maybe even enjoy it, but it won't affect WoW that much. Same goes for wildstar.

Come everquest next, well thats a mmo that Im gonna atleast be trying out. Will it kill WoW? Nope and I don't even see myself quiting WoW over it, but thats like the first MMO after WoW that Im gonna enjoy for sure.

[Goretex]

I'm gonna play both, willl it kill WoW hell no lol. But it does look pretty cool to play. I don't think SWTOR failed at some point because of the sub fee, it was other issues about the game most people didn't like.

[Tomana]

This i agree with. it's 10 years of wow now and we still don't have dodging, active blocking, combos etc. we finally got casting on the move and GC the numbskull thinks it was one of the things they have to cut back on (see one of his commentaries/interviews).

And as soon as casters can cast on the move, melee whines about it because it makes ranged so much better in both PVE and PVP.
It's not that simple. Sure, if you don't give a crap about balance, than it's fine.

These spells would have cds, and cost resources of course. But wouldn't that open up gameplay and combat mechanics and choices? wouldn't it be more interesting than dks not using an iconic ability and a spriest tab targetting 3 times to dot mobs up? suppose that functionality is added to all classes? wouldn't it be more interesting?

And then people would whine that they have to bring class X or Y on a mandatory basis (e.g. a DK for Horridon). We've already been in the mandatory-class-land (it's called BC), and frankly, I'd rather not go back there again.
Or, if enough classes get the said combos, it will simply bring the resulting damage up to a new level and fights will have to be tuned accordingly.

It only works in GW2 because it has no end-game PVE, except some 5-mans.

[Venziir]

Really daring to go sub. Everything else has fallen

Honestly, it seems like the current MMORPGS in development who are going to have a sub, seems to be more directed towards their already established fanbase/niché such as ESO and FF14, because they "know" that they have a relatively large fanbase willing to pay a sub because they've been waiting for x game.

[Airwaves]

Gw2 hitted very hard.

I love GW2 but sorry no. The subs that have left wow haven't gone to any other game. They have just left MMO's altogether. And FYI well over 25 MILLION people have left wow over the years.

[Tomana]

If SWTOR couldn't sink WoW, no MMO ever will. TOR had more hype than any MMO ever, Bioware as a developer, the Star Wars license and EA's cash but it still couldn't hold it's own. Why? because it suffered from the same problem all new MMOs do, lack of end game content.

IMHO, SWTOR suffered first and foremost from the lack of balls of Bioware (and prolly EA too). They could have made something like a revolutionary space MMO, but they chose simply to clone WoW.

- - - Updated - - -

or they figure they're all like wow. wow ruined the genre

And why are they all like wow? Because the editor's are all cowering in fear to try something different. Rather than looking for a new recipe for success, they try (and fail) to replicate the one for WoW. Which cannot end well.

[Granyala]

They could have made something like a revolutionary space MMO, but they chose simply to clone WoW.

That, combined with a laggy, hardware hungry engine. God those lags in Battlegrounds... ugh.

But the worst part of MMOs these days are the constant fanboy bitch-wars going on in the forums, to the point of the forums being unusable.

[Tomana]

Gw2 hitted very hard.

And you base that information on?

FF14/Teso/Wildstar/Next gen consoles all together will hit very very hard.

Console people and PC people do cross sometimes, but are really two distinct markets.
TESO is also aimed at console people (in majority), and they just made their life harder with a sub model.
Wildstar -> no comment, this game only shows that devs need big smacks on the head from Finance to work correctly.

I bet on 2,5 M Active sub (no bots/not free trial) by the next summer.

That's a bold prediction, but it's too pessimistic imo.

[Rapti]

ESO in what Ive seen it so far and a 15$ fee... will die a horrible death imho.
It will deffo sell well, thats for sure - there is a lot of people who buy a new mmo, lvl up (or rush) and then leave it 1-3months later tops.

[Tomana]

That, combined with a laggy, hardware hungry engine. God those lags in Battlegrounds... ugh.

Hardware programmers are alas a dying breed in VG development. They figure that 'puters are powerful, so no need to bother with such stuff.

But the worst part of MMOs these days are the constant fanboy bitch-wars going on in the forums, to the point of the forums being unusable.

Yeah, which is why forums need intense moderation, which means a lot of staff, and so on.

[Airwaves]

But the worst part of MMOs these days are the constant fanboy bitch-wars going on in the forums, to the point of the forums being unusable.

I realy hate it. I love playing multiple MMO's and i enjoy all of them. (as you can see in my sig) Looking for the good things in each game and ignoring the bad it the best way to do it.