Welfare Legendary

[MoanaLisa]

Yeah, the video guides are shitty.

Off-topic: I don't know that I would go quite that far but once you've been through the fights once or twice on LFR the videos make a lot more sense for people. Being there trumps reading about it or watching it by quite a ways, even for something like LFR which is missing a few pieces. People that raid all the time can pick most of it by watching a video I suppose but who wants to watch videos.

[DeadmanWalking]

I don't think there's anything shallow about saying there should be some sort of exclusive factor in achievements. I think the thing is, when everyone else can do the same achievement, the question is, is it still an achievement? How many people do you know that actually marked out and went crazy after they got the cloak? Seriously, on my server nobody really said anything, they just got their cloak and moved along - not really a legendary item from that perspective.

Let me put this in terms you will understand since you have consistently ignored it as it doesn't fit your world view on the matter. There was a post recently about Heroic Raid only server, lets say you wanted this and you got it. Everyone on that server are only Herioc Raiders. All of them got their Legendary quest done on Heroic mode only. 5,000 people got that cloak on day 1, does that mean that they didn't achieve anything just because you don't like other people to wear the same dress to prom as you do? Obviously it is not because they didn't work as hard as you did that is pissing you off, its that there is no one there in your mind going, "Ooooh! Thats an awesome cloak, Your my hero! I wish I was you!". There are no boot lickers, thats whats really pissing you off. So yeah, its shallow. Only shallow people get angry when they pass other people on the highway driving the same porche as them. Only Shallow people get pissed off that they see someone driving a pinto because only people in porches should have the right to drive cars, even if that car is a crappy car. Oh wait, that only happens in wow. My mistake.

Its very shallow, its a major sign of weakness of character if you can't feel good about yourself without someone elses acknowledgement.

[MoanaLisa]

Knock it off with the personal back and forth. The thread is pretty derailed as it is. Don't make it worse.

[nekobaka]

People who use the term welfare legendary might as well quit now because they are already hard baking the next legendary into the next expansion as we speak as an expansion long quest that anyone can complete if they dedicate their time to it.

I have not seen anything confirming this as it is still up in the air along with responses that a less open legendary like the rogue daggers might make a return.

It was legendary because you had to do a lot to get it, not because other people had it. If you place value upon it because most people are denied it then thats your problem. It feels legendary to me because I worked for a year and a half to get it and my accomplishments are not weighed on someone else wearing the same 'dress' to prom as me.

It comes with viewpoints of should an item be rare even if you would never obtain it regardless of dedication or should it be left to loyal customers making so that those who are not loyal are denied it? Someone is still getting denied so I do not see why you like to use such words with bias.

I have been playing from classic and have never obtained a legendary. I do not get butthurt from others having something I do not in a video game. It does not keep me from enjoying the game. If you are getting butthurt over others having something you dont then you are the one with an ego problem.

It is nice having something long terms to work on to keep players engaged in the long run while at the same time what does it hurt to give another legendary to those who put the effort into organized raiding that involves far higher levels of social communication and personal responsibility in an MMO.

Off-topic: I don't know that I would go quite that far but once you've been through the fights once or twice on LFR the videos make a lot more sense for people. Being there trumps reading about it or watching it by quite a ways, even for something like LFR which is missing a few pieces. People that raid all the time can pick most of it by watching a video I suppose but who wants to watch videos.

The quality of information from the videos has increased immensely over the years and personally are very helpful. Nothing replaces doing it live while the videos can still save hours worth of attempts which as someone with limited play time is a very important thing. It is comparatively counterproductive for me to not look up the fights and is a far bigger time waster. I dont have all day to play and learn the fights from scratch like some players seem to be intent on forcing upon us so that they dont have to feel pressured into spending a fraction of their game time looking up a fight.

[RickJamesLich]

Let me put this in terms you will understand since you have consistently ignored it as it doesn't fit your world view on the matter. There was a post recently about Heroic Raid only server, lets say you wanted this and you got it. Everyone on that server are only Herioc Raiders. All of them got their Legendary quest done on Heroic mode only. 5,000 people got that cloak on day 1, does that mean that they didn't achieve anything just because you don't like other people to wear the same dress to prom as you do? Obviously it is not because they didn't work as hard as you did that is pissing you off, its that there is no one there in your mind going, "Ooooh! Thats an awesome cloak, Your my hero! I wish I was you!". There are no boot lickers, thats whats really pissing you off. So yeah, its shallow. Only shallow people get angry when they pass other people on the highway driving the same porche as them. Only Shallow people get pissed off that they see someone driving a pinto because only people in porches should have the right to drive cars, even if that car is a crappy car. Oh wait, that only happens in wow. My mistake.

Its very shallow, its a major sign of weakness of character if you can't feel good about yourself without someone elses acknowledgement.

If 5,000 other heroic raiders got the cloak, then I'd say it's still probably not an achievement. Think about it this way, people link and discuss thunderfury more than this cloak lol, and it just came out a week ago.
I'm not quite sure everyone who gets a legendary wants people to say "whoa, you are so epic for having that", but rather, they'd have an item that takes a lot of work and challenges to get through that makes a noticeable impact on their character - the current legendary lacks the challenge part, and since it's pretty much expected you will have it, it's not quite noticeable either. Strictly my opinion here.

You could argue that people at that point are shallow for *not* thinking it's a welfare legendary lol.

[DeadmanWalking]

Any time I've seen anyone try to add any reasonable discussion, everyone (including you) just bypasses it entirely and goes back to arguing.

I'm sorry, who are you? I don't remember holding a conversation with you specifically. Let me look in the log to see if I bypassed someone who bypasses what other people say and goes back to arguing. You do the same damn thing, we all do, so don't act like you are the only lighthouse in the fog.

[Voolawl]

Let me put this in terms you will understand since you have consistently ignored it as it doesn't fit your world view on the matter. There was a post recently about Heroic Raid only server, lets say you wanted this and you got it. Everyone on that server are only Herioc Raiders. All of them got their Legendary quest done on Heroic mode only. 5,000 people got that cloak on day 1, does that mean that they didn't achieve anything just because you don't like other people to wear the same dress to prom as you do? Obviously it is not because they didn't work as hard as you did that is pissing you off, its that there is no one there in your mind going, "Ooooh! Thats an awesome cloak, Your my hero! I wish I was you!". There are no boot lickers, thats whats really pissing you off. So yeah, its shallow. Only shallow people get angry when they pass other people on the highway driving the same porche as them. Only Shallow people get pissed off that they see someone driving a pinto because only people in porches should have the right to drive cars, even if that car is a crappy car. Oh wait, that only happens in wow. My mistake.

Its very shallow, its a major sign of weakness of character if you can't feel good about yourself without someone elses acknowledgement.

At least those 5000 people did more than queue up in a town for arguably the easiest way to get the pieces needed.

[DeadmanWalking]

If 5,000 other heroic raiders got the cloak, then I'd say it's still probably not an achievement. Think about it this way, people link and discuss thunderfury more than this cloak lol, and it just came out a week ago.
I'm not quite sure everyone who gets a legendary wants people to say "whoa, you are so epic for having that", but rather, they'd have an item that takes a lot of work and challenges to get through that makes a noticeable impact on their character - the current legendary lacks the challenge part, and since it's pretty much expected you will have it, it's not quite noticeable either. Strictly my opinion here.

You could argue that people at that point are shallow for *not* thinking it's a welfare legendary lol.

Nope, its definately being shallow. But you are welcome to justify it any way you want to go to sleep at night.

[Charo]

Because the cloak is brain dead simple to get

and everyone could also get it first day to 5.4

in short you don't have to be good to get it

I wont be getting mine for a while because I can't be bothered to do the pvp part of the quest

Which orange wasn't? was getting random drops off Rag, Illidan, and random bosses in ICC, Ulduar, or Firelands "hard" What about Dragon Soul? I suppose you had to stealth... The bow and staff from Sunwell and Naxx40 might have been hard, only because the content was hard, there was no extra effort in getting them if you were already clearing these places.

[Monteverdi]

I'm sorry, who are you? I don't remember holding a conversation with you specifically. Let me look in the log to see if I bypassed someone who bypasses what other people say and goes back to arguing. You do the same damn thing, we all do, so don't act like you are the only lighthouse in the fog.

I'm just saying, I've tried to inject some fairly reasonable opinions here and they've been completely bypassed - then you jump on someone for refusing to inject reasonable opinions. This is a public forum - if you want to have a private argument with one person then by all means take it to PMs.

[Voolawl]

Which orange wasn't? was getting random drops off Rag, Illidan, and random bosses in ICC, Ulduar, or Firelands "hard" What about Dragon Soul? I suppose you had to stealth... The bow and staff from Sunwell and Naxx40 might have been hard, only because the content was hard, there was no extra effort in getting them if you were already clearing these places.

Well, for starters, you actually had to have made a raid group to even get in to see the content. There was no, "I'm bored and I wanna work on this legendary, let me queue up for LFR and AFK through this while I watch some My Little Pony."

[Otimus]

Well, for starters, you actually had to have made a raid group to even get in to see the content. There was no, "I'm bored and I wanna work on this legendary, let me queue up for LFR and AFK through this while I watch some My Little Pony."

Having to make make raid groups shouldn't be a pre-requisite for having nice things in WoW :x

That's a major fundamental design problem the game has enough with as is :x

[Voolawl]

Having to make make raid groups shouldn't be a pre-requisite for having nice things in WoW :x

That's a major fundamental design problem the game has enough with as is :x

Wait. WAIT. So you shouldn't have to make a raid group to get nice raid gear that you're going to use in raids?

[Otimus]

Just no.
Those people where you talk about are those who make guides... They have a better understanding of how mechanics/bosses/classes/spells work then the average Joe in LFR. THEY are the ones who make it easier for the LFR runner by explaining the mechanics AS EASY AS POSSIBLE in a guide on the internet. All you have to do is use Google for 5 minutes and you can run LFR without wipes/deaths. Fact is that the LFR runners are to lazy to even Google, so why even bother to make guides anymore or help them out? Let's see how far they get without the help of them. Gear has nothing to do with it, because the raids were made intentionally for those gearlevels. Remember 1st LFR week of MoP ? When people barely had heroic dungeon gear to get into LFR ? At least they tried to push and improve to kill the boss. Now they expect things to die instantly because they got some epics.

Why is this whole "You have to know the fight before you know the fight" attitude only in existence in MMOs, and no other multiplayer genre on earth (That I know of, anyways.) It's practically treated as law, and is probably why virtually no important amount of people do organized activities in them :x

[RickJamesLich]

Nope, its definately being shallow. But you are welcome to justify it any way you want to go to sleep at night.

So you now agree that it's shallow not to think the cloak is a welfare legendary?

[nekobaka]

Having to make make raid groups shouldn't be a pre-requisite for having nice things in WoW :x

That's a major fundamental design problem the game has enough with as is :x

Having to be sociable and engage in group based content that involves teamwork instead only doing solo activity is the problem with WoW? Gee to think all these years that I have befriended other players in multiplayer games and have benifited from the experience was only hurting these multiplayer games.

[Otimus]

Wait. WAIT. So you shouldn't have to make a raid group to get nice raid gear that you're going to use in raids?

No, what I mean is, is everything shouldn't be about manual grouping. Why should it be? That's so limiting :x

Hell, if anything, a legendary shouldn't require any group activity at all, and soley challenging personal content.

- - - Updated - - -

Having to be sociable and engage in group based content that involves teamwork instead only doing solo activity is the problem with WoW?

No. The game being so raid-focused when very few people actually want to raid is.

[Monteverdi]

Why is this whole "You have to know the fight before you know the fight" attitude only in existence in MMOs, and no other multiplayer genre on earth (That I know of, anyways.) It's practically treated as law, and is probably why virtually no important amount of people do organized activities in them :x

To be fair though, a lot of players (including myself) enjoy this kinda of gameplay. I love having to learn the specifics of a fight to succesfully complete it as opposed to going in and simply being able to react on the fly without ever having seen it and, if you're skilled enough, be able to down the boss on try 1. to each their own I guess.

[Barky]

in short you don't have to be good to get it

Pretty much this. Because 'everyone' can get it by doing a slog in LFR once a week since mop's come out, it's a real trivial thing to get, it's not even fun to get.

[Otimus]

To be fair though, a lot of players (including myself) enjoy this kinda of gameplay. I love having to learn the specifics of a fight to succesfully complete it as opposed to going in and simply being able to react on the fly without ever having seen it and, if you're skilled enough, be able to down the boss on try 1. to each their own I guess.

Oh, no, I certainly get that. I'm like that too. But only in THIS genre is it practically seen, by and large, in ALL aspects, practically as some sort of "law" and requirement.