Does fury need an overhaul?

[Juni]

I love warrior class, and I love dual-wielding. But I hate Fury.

The whole spec hinges on one stat: crit. You don't have at least 20-25% crit? Then the spec simply doesn't work. The whole rotation hinges on Bloodthirst, because everything procs from it. BT-WS-WS, repeat until you die of old age. On holidays you may have one Raging Blow. Oh and you have to use Berserker Rage as a part of rotation rather than a counter to CC. And our mastery is passive damage. AoE? You spam WW. And RB on big holidays. That's all. No mass Deep Wounds, because you have no way of applying them in AoE, no interesting stuff like using Sweeping Strikes and Slam synergy.

I love to be a dual-wielding warrior, but playing the spec feels like a torment. I'd rather be Arms, if Arms could DW.

Again, guess u're playing at ridiculously low crit levels then if you can claim "on holidays you may have one Raging Blow.", and there really isn't much use of Berserker Rage as a cc breaker in PVE so that's just a pointless statement. And if you just spam WW as aoe you're doing it wrong.

[Jakesterwars]

Only fight I can think of for Berserker Rage for a CC breaker would be the fear in Terrace during heroic Garrosh if you get hit by the swirls of death. Outside of that, it's just used to keep enraged when you either are bladestorming or if you go without critting with BT and/or CS in a rotation.

[Archimtiros]

Yes, exactly. That post clearly shows how my reasoning is flawed. Especially when it answers to things I haven't mentioned with such an ambudance of arguments..

Thing is, I actually could understand where you were coming from in your post, and it makes some sense; I can't say your viewpoint is wrong (although I still don't agree with your comparison of Warriors and Combat Rogues, by that logic you could throw Hunters and a few other classes in as well), but here's the thing:

It doesn't really matter whether or not we agree with how Blizzard defines the class, all that matters is that they can.

You could argue that a Frost DK is a "raging berserker" class; because it has a short 1s GCD, it hits everything around them (howling blast) and deals consistant damage. Obviously that's a bunch of bullshit but it's one of those situations, if you argue correctly, your never wrong! I offered the reasoning how I saw Blizzards intent, but really it doesn't matter because its simply a description and nothing else.
The same applies to core abilites/rotation; you don't have to like or agree with it; and honestly Blizzard won't care if you do, they aren't going to change an ability or rotation due to philosophical difference of what someone else thinks the classes definition should be, as long as it isn't broken.

[Haven]

Again, guess u're playing at ridiculously low crit levels then if you can claim "on holidays you may have one Raging Blow.", and there really isn't much use of Berserker Rage as a cc breaker in PVE so that's just a pointless statement. And if you just spam WW as aoe you're doing it wrong.

10-15% crit is normal during leveling. If a spec doesn't work for 89 levels out of 90, I'd say that something's wrong. What is the right way to AoE then? All guides say it's WW-WW-WW-RB (with Meat Cleaver), rinse and repeat, plus level60 talent from time to time.

[hakujinbakasama]

Fury is one of those specs (like Boomkin) that sucks pretty hard at low gear levels, and becomes much more rewarding at higher gear levels (towards the middle/end of an expansion).

This is the aspect of WoW which has me eagerly looking forward to "something else." I understand it is the nature of MMOs in general, but I don't enjoy getting punished by "low gear."

I'd say that Ret and Enhancement are similar with Fury except that they both respectively bring better "options" to the table due to the nature of Shaman and Paladins (self healing and more friendly ranged abilities). This puts Fury alongside Feral in my opinion. Both are extremely viable given gear or even situation-specific (boss fights) but are equally dismal solo before a specific ilvl.

[Brakthir]

10-15% crit is normal during leveling. If a spec doesn't work for 89 levels out of 90, I'd say that something's wrong. What is the right way to AoE then? All guides say it's WW-WW-WW-RB (with Meat Cleaver), rinse and repeat, plus level60 talent from time to time.

What? The real game doesn't begin till max level. 1-89 is you "learning" the spec. 90 is where the game actually starts.

[Deleted]

I love warrior class, and I love dual-wielding. But I hate Fury.

The whole spec hinges on one stat: crit. You don't have at least 20-25% crit? Then the spec simply doesn't work. The whole rotation hinges on Bloodthirst, because everything procs from it. BT-WS-WS, repeat until you die of old age. On holidays you may have one Raging Blow. Oh and you have to use Berserker Rage as a part of rotation rather than a counter to CC. And our mastery is passive damage. AoE? You spam WW. And RB on big holidays. That's all. No mass Deep Wounds, because you have no way of applying them in AoE, no interesting stuff like using Sweeping Strikes and Slam synergy.

I love to be a dual-wielding warrior, but playing the spec feels like a torment. I'd rather be Arms, if Arms could DW.

When would you ACTUALLY use Berserker Rage to counter CC in current PvE Content? It's actually no longer just that, it's a free Enrage when you need it. To maximize Enrage Uptime during CS, or if not needed then outside for another RB

- - - Updated - - -

This is chalked up totally to my opinion, so take it for what it is.

Personally Fury has needed an overhaul since the launch of Cata, I believe "Raging Blow" lives up to it's names sake... in that it blows. If you name a spec Fury is should feel furious, not part time furious, not sometimes, always. To me Fury felt it was at it's peak during Wrath, it just felt more furious. Now you build up rage for that one moment then expel as much as you can in a short window. It feels like a combat rogue to me.

I wish to this day that I could find the Blue post that said it, but I remember someone saying "Arms is the polished warrior. Calm, collected, and usually somewhat planned out. Fury is THAT GUY that shows up drunk, with half his gear, and flailing about aiming to maim something." or something along those lines. It's just not furious anymore imho.

Dunno what your Oppinion tells you about the word Furious. But building up all your Rage to devastate your enemy in a flurry of Attacks during said short time Window is actually furious. So I guess that Argument isn't really working.

[CollisionTD]

This is chalked up totally to my opinion, so take it for what it is.

Personally Fury has needed an overhaul since the launch of Cata, I believe "Raging Blow" lives up to it's names sake... in that it blows. If you name a spec Fury is should feel furious, not part time furious, not sometimes, always. To me Fury felt it was at it's peak during Wrath, it just felt more furious. Now you build up rage for that one moment then expel as much as you can in a short window. It feels like a combat rogue to me.

I wish to this day that I could find the Blue post that said it, but I remember someone saying "Arms is the polished warrior. Calm, collected, and usually somewhat planned out. Fury is THAT GUY that shows up drunk, with half his gear, and flailing about aiming to maim something." or something along those lines. It's just not furious anymore imho.

You are looking at Wrath Fury with VERY rosy glasses.

Apologies in advance for the huge image.

http://gyazo.com/a4c7efcdcf8e2168a56a8db01a2b5279.png


If you mean "Fury was furious because it spammed the absolute shit out of heroic strike and nothing else", sure... but if you look at absolute APM, I used about 31~ damaging abilities in 28~ seconds in my log.

I had to try hard to find a parse of Saurfang pre-ARP removal (This was logged 6 days prior), but Doomyy from Temerity ended up working out. In that parse, he used 38~ abilities in 36 seconds.

So fury spams just as many keys as it did back then, with a wider variety of keys to press.

[Deleted]

I enjoy the Fury play style at the moment but i agree with the assertions that the descriptions of the Arms/Fury class and their play style do not really match up. I guess how they manage the haste problem in 6.0 could have an impact on this. I assume they don't want Arms and Fury to spec exactly the same and from an ideological stand point i can see why Crit/Haste should favor the furious berserker and Crit/Mastery should favor the controlled blade master style of Arms.

[Archimtiros]

You are looking at Wrath Fury with VERY rosy glasses.

People loved Wrath Fury, myself included, because:

1) It was spammy, not a lot of classes were nearly that wild and constant. Some people like that; although I think every class has become much more engaging since then. We still have some of that feel too, except it is only every 20 seconds when CS goes up.

2) And more importantly: It was powerful. Wrath Fury Warriors were over tuned. Everyone who was there knows it, and everyone enjoys DPSing more when they are on top. And because of that, most Warriors were on top of the meters because it was very easy to go in and do great DPS because it took pressing very few buttons with no real regard towards order or timing as long as they were constantly hit.

Now, Fury Warriors are in a pretty damn good place. However it is much more complex; meaning more average or (being honest) bad players are not as easily able to put out those numbers and take advantage of the specs potential. This makes them think the spec is at fault, which is not entirely true.

If you find yourself in that situation, you have two options:
1) Get better, improve, ask for help and sometimes simply gear up/get more Crit. If you are a very casual player who doesn't raid much, Fury is very likely not the spec for you. This isn't the developers fault, or a massive flaw they must fix. It's simply a byproduct of the way the spec is put together and it isn't likely to change, even with whatever improvements come in WoD you can garuntee Warriors in general will still be heavily reliant on gear (and likely a certain few stats above others).

2) Pick a new class. The game is very diverse, you have 23 different DPS specs to choose from. Even if you are a person who enjoys dual wield melee that still leaves you 5 different options, 6 if you include Windwalker Monks.

Not trying to start a debate (for once) or be mean; it's simply a reality check. The developers didn't screw up the spec and it isn't their job to fix something that frankly isn't broken. If you aren't good at something you either work to improve or you do something else!

Edit: This was not aimed at anyone in particular, just in general.

[cFortyfive]

6 if you include Windwalker Monks.

WW monk actually plays quite nice with appropriate gear and is also very powerful on single targets with high uptime. Just as a suggestion to anyone looking for something to do while farming soo for the 928347928349234th time.
Anyways I don't really see why people are as convinced that everyone must be in on the circle jerk going on around the current iteration but I guess they have their reasoning.

[Haven]

What? The real game doesn't begin till max level. 1-89 is you "learning" the spec. 90 is where the game actually starts.

This far, the one thing I learned is that Fury is a spec of one stat; your crit is a direct measure of your effectiveness.

[Archimtiros]

This far, the one thing I learned is that Fury is a spec of one stat; your crit is a direct measure of your effectiveness.

And people seem to think this is a massive problem? It's only a problem when you are severely undergeared. At anything close to proper gear levels for content; it really isn't the issue people like to make it out to be.

Most classes tend to favor one or two stats above all others; granted the disparity isn't quite as large as for Fury, but it is there. In actuality, Fury starts to favor Mastery pretty heavily as well as you get better geared. The only real difference between Fury and other classes is that their primary stat (Str) is often lower than their secondaries.

But honestly, would you rather play a Feral druid who has to juggle their stats due to RoRo, or an Ele Shaman who changes stat allocation each week, sometimes per fight? I'd trade a static "crit is always better" spec for one that I have to micromanage every time I change a piece of gear any day.

[Bizerk]

Its like rets complaining about how they need 40-50% haste to do their rotation properly. Won't ever hear the end of it.

[Darkfriend]

Its like rets complaining about how they need 40-50% haste to do their rotation properly. Won't ever hear the end of it.

Ye "Technically you need like 42% haste with no latency but because of latency and lag and stuff you want closer to 50%" lalalala no one plays ret anyway.

[sjsctt]

no one plays ret anyway.

we have a good one, and he doesn't want to play it.

[Recke]

People loved Wrath Fury, myself included, because:
2) And more importantly: It was powerful.

Quoted for agreement. It was simple, it hit hard, it "felt right."

[Assumi]

And people seem to think this is a massive problem?

Yes, it is. Because there are more stats than Crit in this game. Just because you can stack enough to make it work doesn't mean it's poor design to have 1 stat be everything and the rest be garbage, and the people who make the damn game clearly agree with that fact since they keep talking about fixing other stats value for warriors.

[Darkfriend]

Yes, it is. Because there are more stats than Crit in this game. Just because you can stack enough to make it work doesn't mean it's poor design to have 1 stat be everything and the rest be garbage, and the people who make the damn game clearly agree with that fact since they keep talking about fixing other stats value for warriors.

The only other stat that is bad is haste.

Classes tend to have a stat that is bad for them. This isn't a problem.

The problem is when one stat is THAT bad.

So not every stat is garbage. Only haste.

[Kindahuge]

Fury is awesome, feels fresher and more active to me than most of the other dps specs out there - casters feel clunky. Fury rewards me for being able to make tons of on-the-fly decisions as to whether to pool for the next second or unload, whether it's worth it to actually use that non-bloodsurge WS as a rage dump, etc. I've seen most of my guild's other top dps players (hunter, lock, ele sham, and so on) all decide they wanna give fury a try and after a couple weeks call it quits because they just can't muster the dps that the spec is capable of, because frankly they're used to playing specs with a much more forgiving "understood --> mastered" curve.

I'm not trying to hate here, but based on what you bolded in your post - you probably fall in line with them.