Who else is worried about another 3.0 when 6.0 drops for ret?

[anaxie]

How about we DONT regress into being balanced around DP baseline. instead work on making exorcism and judgement not complete fucking shit.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I'd gladly take DP over the chance for Exorcism to reset, as it stands today just adding DP as baseline wouldn't break ret imo.

[nyc81991]

I'd gladly take DP over the chance for Exorcism to reset, as it stands today just adding DP as baseline wouldn't break ret imo.

I think Divine Purpose should have been baseline for Ret since the start honestly. It essentially was baseline until MoP and then Blizzard decided to take everything Ret had and give it to Holy and Prot.

I almost feel like they could literally make Divine Purpose baseline for Ret right now and it wouldn't even make us Op. It would probably put Ret exactly where it needs to be.

[Zabannith]

Correct me if im wrong , I just woke up , but didnt we have baseline dp in cata? I seem to remember 2 procs one for exo and one for dp instead of the 1 baseline proc we have now... like i said i may be wrong , i just woke up

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that being said I do not want to be balanced around rng thats how you can destroy everybody on the metres one fight then be dead bottom last the next one , it all depends on how luck you are on a given pull... i want more predictability and sustainability

[Smitus]

that being said I do not want to be balanced around rng thats how you can destroy everybody on the metres one fight then be dead bottom last the next one , it all depends on how luck you are on a given pull... i want more predictability and sustainability

There is some level of RNG in every rotation, so having "rng" in our rotation isn't necessarily a bad thing. As long as TV wasn't an overwhelming percentage of our damage in relativity to our HP builders we wouldn't be overreliant on DP procs and it could nicely spice up ret's dry rotation

[Lumineus]

Correct me if im wrong , I just woke up , but didnt we have baseline dp in cata? I seem to remember 2 procs one for exo and one for dp instead of the 1 baseline proc we have now... like i said i may be wrong , i just woke up

We did, and yet, we didn't. The design was totally different. It also procced from CS and Exorcism, which meant that a lot of the time you could waste procs or waste holy power because of it. It's nearly impossible to do that with the MoP version because not only do we have a higher hpwr max, it also only procs from finishers now.

[eScar95]

Final Verdict pared with Holy Avenger with a Mastery build would make Ret a completely face roll spec. I hope Blizzard fixes this.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

What would we replace the open spot if DP was Baseline(which I'm ok with btw). That's the bigger question.

[Lumineus]

Perhaps a sustained damage passive, since when you get down to it, that's what Divine Purpose is supposed to be. Something like, increases the damage of Crusader Strike by 25% and reduces the base cooldown to 3 seconds. Maybe for Holy it would affect Holy Shock instead.

[nyc81991]

What would we replace the open spot if DP was Baseline(which I'm ok with btw). That's the bigger question.

I think there are a few things they could add in place of Divine Purpose. I would like the idea of something like this for Ret,

Seal of Command.

Seal of Command would increase the damage of Judgment by 20% and reduce it's CD by 0.5 seconds when active and causes all melee attacks to have a 20% chance to deal an addition strike for 40% weapon damage as Holy to up to 3 targets within 8 yards.

This would bring back Seal of Command (which in my opinion is the iconic Retribution Seal) and increase sustained damage through Judgment while also having that extra attack proc that Seal of Command use to have.

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Perhaps a sustained damage passive, since when you get down to it, that's what Divine Purpose is supposed to be. Something like, increases the damage of Crusader Strike by 25% and reduces the base cooldown to 3 seconds. Maybe for Holy it would affect Holy Shock instead.

Something like this would also work well in place of Divine Purpose. Crusader Strike and Judgment could both use some love.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Seal of Blood
Your drain 5% of your own health every 5 seconds but your attack snow deal 1% (or whatever balanced option) of you max HP as damage.
Would make good use of eternal flame for us, play around with the mechanics of it but having a double Edge sword could be fun.

[anaxie]

Final Verdict pared with Holy Avenger with a Mastery build would make Ret a completely face roll spec. I hope Blizzard fixes this.

I hope you understand that Holy verdict will be NOWHERE near as powerful with weapon damage inflation going down to where we will see minimal gains between tiers not thousands. Which cuts into our 2h spec scaling. Which also with inqu removal cuts into our holy damage tv/ mastery scaling.


You think we are going to be OP? you are so... sooo... very wrong

[Vash The Stampede]

No point to wonder how our specs damage will turn out, until they release an open beta. Our damage has and will always be mediocre or just low. Only Light within and Divine Conviction are our only damage increasing talents. The problem is Seal of Faith, which is so bad for so many good reasons. The whole problem with Ret this expansion is that our healing took a huge nose dive. This was a result of all the pure classes complaining about hybrids out healing their damage. Specifically Ret, if anyone remembers MOP beta complaints.

Like clockwork, the developers did a knee jerk reaction and nerfed Rets healing into uselessness. Which is terrible when you consider that most of our talents, defenses, and utility are based around healing. Cause hey, that Rets damage may suck and his plate seems to be made out of paper or cardboard, but at least it can heal pretty good. Oh wait...

Seal of Faith is like Glyph of the Battle Healer. That Glyph, according to developers, was meant for Ret. Instead it was really used by Prot Paladins and totally ignored by Ret, and still is today. Except they nerfed it and not even Prot Paladins even use it. If Ret Paladins didn't want to sacrifice damage for healing with a glyph, then why do it again with a talent?

What this means is that developers aren't over the idea that Ret Paladin should heal, even though it's failed miserably. We get the idea that Paladins heal, but they can't make it work proper for Ret. Because all it takes is some 12 year old to make an angry post on the forums about Ret, and there goes my pony. It also doesn't help that when nerfs to healing like PvP Power and battle fatigue also effect Ret, then we're kinda getting nerfs that are intended for healers. Zero f*$ks were given when those nerfs effected hybrids, even though Shadow Priest healing was totally out of control and went unnoticed for a while. Took them until ToT to get things corrected, and even then just slightly.

I say leave the healing to Holy Paladins. Give Rets something like Argent Defender and other defenses that aren't based around healing. Seal of Faith is bad and the developers should feel bad for creating it.

[nyc81991]

No point to wonder how our specs damage will turn out, until they release an open beta. Our damage has and will always be mediocre or just low. Only Light within and Divine Conviction are our only damage increasing talents. The problem is Seal of Faith, which is so bad for so many good reasons. The whole problem with Ret this expansion is that our healing took a huge nose dive. This was a result of all the pure classes complaining about hybrids out healing their damage. Specifically Ret, if anyone remembers MOP beta complaints.

Like clockwork, the developers did a knee jerk reaction and nerfed Rets healing into uselessness. Which is terrible when you consider that most of our talents, defenses, and utility are based around healing. Cause hey, that Rets damage may suck and his plate seems to be made out of paper or cardboard, but at least it can heal pretty good. Oh wait...

Seal of Faith is like Glyph of the Battle Healer. That Glyph, according to developers, was meant for Ret. Instead it was really used by Prot Paladins and totally ignored by Ret, and still is today. Except they nerfed it and not even Prot Paladins even use it. If Ret Paladins didn't want to sacrifice damage for healing with a glyph, then why do it again with a talent?

What this means is that developers aren't over the idea that Ret Paladin should heal, even though it's failed miserably. We get the idea that Paladins heal, but they can't make it work proper for Ret. Because all it takes is some 12 year old to make an angry post on the forums about Ret, and there goes my pony. It also doesn't help that when nerfs to healing like PvP Power and battle fatigue also effect Ret, then we're kinda getting nerfs that are intended for healers. Zero f*$ks were given when those nerfs effected hybrids, even though Shadow Priest healing was totally out of control and went unnoticed for a while. Took them until ToT to get things corrected, and even then just slightly.

I say leave the healing to Holy Paladins. Give Rets something like Argent Defender and other defenses that aren't based around healing. Seal of Faith is bad and the developers should feel bad for creating it.

I read a post from Celestalon that they are shelving Seal of Faith. It will interesting to see what they add in its place. Hopefully it will be something more useful for Retribution.

[Zabannith]

I read a post from Celestalon that they are shelving Seal of Faith. It will interesting to see what they add in its place. Hopefully it will be something more useful for Retribution.

this is true , it's on the front page of the 6.0 thread

[Lyese]

I hope you understand that Holy verdict will be NOWHERE near as powerful with weapon damage inflation going down to where we will see minimal gains between tiers not thousands. Which cuts into our 2h spec scaling. Which also with inqu removal cuts into our holy damage tv/ mastery scaling.


You think we are going to be OP? you are so... sooo... very wrong

Wouldn't everyone be scaled down anyway? With Inq being removed, wouldn't we have something that replaces it?

[anaxie]

The only way to remove inqu and not just roll it into SoL is to entirely gut the spec and every single ability and rebuild the class from the ground up.

This is something I find highly unlikely to happen.

[Lumineus]

Well they're editing every ability anyway to remove base damage, so why not. Wouldn't be much different from MoP Beta anyway, except they'd have to buff a bunch of abilities and our Mastery by 30% instead of nerfing some of them by a similar amount in every... little... micro-patch.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

You know what happened in MoP beta? They went along with raid testing 10man and then later 25man and everything was as expected, ret was somewhere in the middle with no major concerns about anything compared to past expansion releases. Then 1 week (roughly) before the beta servers shut down and MoP actually released they decided to shoot us in the face without explanation, nerfed the shit out of our 2h damage scaling and then they figured out 4 months later that we needed a buff to SoL TWICE. We even pointed out to Blizzard devs when they did those changes that ret would need a buff every tier to keep up with other melee (in particular) and the way they scale with gear, the way they replied? "We're aware of that, when it becomes a problem we'll have a look at it." Not only did they KNOW what they were doing they did it on purpose for some unknown reason and that's not the first time they've cocked up classes at expansion releases, remember Rets in 3.0 or 3.1 whatever when we had Seal of Blood and we basically went around 3 shotting people in pvp the second week of WotLK? Then came a hotfix that made us pretty much useless until ICC where 100% crit on Exorcism, Tiny Abomination in a Jar and a bloody Legendary made us not fall to the bottom, on top of that the legendary and trinket in ICC basically double dipped from our passive so we could get 2 stacks per attack. This "bug" stayed all the way up to Dragon Soul when we started seeing rets with the famous Tentacle Sword, I remember when I had 8 of those things up at the same time and we were destroying everyone... for a week. Then they decided after 5 years (roughly) that something that's been in the game suddenly was deemed a "bug" and they hotfixed it and ret got shot down to bottom, again.

So when people talk about "it's fine if Inq goes, they can rebalance / rebuild ret again. They're already doing so many number changing things." it infuriates me. Yes, they CAN do it. So forgive me if I don't have faith in blizzard to properly make ret as good as it is today, their job is extremely hard and I won't blame them for a lot of the mishaps that's happened. That said when ret is SO good today why on earth would you want to risk it being changed from the ground up again? More to the point, why would blizzard risk that?

This isn't about pointing blame to blizzard or ghostcrawler or people on mmo-champion or wherever making suggestions and so on... This is about trying to preserve the way ret plays right now, change Inquisition or don't but let it stay. If ret is so sensationally boring for you to play then removing Inq as a button you have to use and manage isn't going to make it more fun, instead maybe ADD a new button for us to hit every 10-20 seconds that WOULD make a impact on how we play for the next idk 10 seconds or something.

/rant over.

[Zabannith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u0fZEYsnSc ???

I wish there was a single thread to discuss retribution about reading 3 different threads with the same arguments/topics is a headache.

Agreed, even tho I started this thread as well, I think we should take this all to the 6.0 thread , this was more asking people if they were worried blizz was going to nerf us into the ground when patch drops... not if inq should or should not stay that it seems to have evolved into.

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