Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill

[Kokolums]

The real lesson I got from the history was: don't get conquered.

The Mongols conquered and partitioned Rus in the 1200s, and they are still fighting along those lines to this day like the Hatfields vs McCoys.

It would be like China conquering the US today, partitioning the US into 3 western, northeast, and southern states, and then Americans effectively fighting a civil war between those 3 factions for a thousand years until the year 3000.

[Bakis]

A mod should change the thread title, because it is entirely wrong.

Yup OP is acting childish.

[Mithfin]

Ivan the Terrible, Catherine the Great, Peter the Great were all Ukrainians. Muscovy eventually expanded vastly into what we call today Russia.

Really now. She was 100% german.

P.S. also, your whole interpretation of east slavs history is... questionable.

[Thunderball]

There wont be any additional Russian troops in Ukraine. There is already the Black Sea fleet main base and headquaters in Sevastopol. It's basically the most pro-Russian place Ukraine can get ever. If this place is attacked the situation might get tence, though. The fact that US supports the new government was obvious from the start: they would support any thing anti-Russian no matter how those people get their power. Basically the situation right now boils down to how much will the new government can piss off the pro-Russian people in the east. If they dont do much or get stopped by someone less radical political situation can be salvaged. Economically it's basically a big fat ass. The country is almost bankrupt, needs money fast, but noone will give them on favorable terms.

[Deleted]

Aslong as they leave the crimean Tatars out of this i dont really care be it Russia or Ukraine

[Stir]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rulers_...ia_family_tree

A nice Family Tree

The Russian Royal Family begins with Yuri I who was Grand Prince of Kiev. Ivan the Terrible shows up near the botton of the Rurik Dynasty. Michael I is in both the Rurik and Romanov lines. Then you run thru the Romanov line all the way down to Nicholas II. All of them trace back to Yuri I, Grand Prince of Kiev.

None of this proves your 'Ukraine is the original Rus.'

[alkyd]

Nato supports the new Ukrainian government* ...what you guys think? Is there potential for a new war incoming since western europe and the states stepped right into the russian territory ? Would putin be relly that stupid to mess with the Nato / US?

Or we could also say "would Nato/US be really stupid to mess with Putin?"

I would say yes, because if situation will go out of control, Ukraine will end up breaking apart, because there is a large pro-Russian population in the eastern and southern parts of Ukraine.

[Ravenblade]

Russia itself was originally a Ukrainian construct. Ukrainians invaded Russia, conquered the Finnish tribes living there, and established what would become the Kingdom of Muscovy. The entire Rurik Dynasty and later Romanov dynasty that would found Moscow and the Kremlin, build it up and eventually become the Tsars, were all Ukrainians. Ivan the Terrible, Catherine the Great, Peter the Great were all Ukrainians. Muscovy eventually expanded vastly into what we call today Russia.

Ukraine's status as region had a similar status like Austria and Tirol had within the HRE. Being Tsar of All Russia also included the title of being Grand Prince(ss) of Kiev. However going as far as you did would be like me saying the British monarchy are all Thuringians which their house by lineage and origin were but the crown they took was British and it was the title and crown primarily which defined what we perceive as nationality today and its associated titles and grants which defined the controlled domains. For that matter since Catherine the Great the House of Romanov got succeeded as Romanov-Holstein-Gottorp.

[Deleted]

None of this proves your 'Ukraine is the original Rus.'

Also if we really want to go back in time Ukraine is the home of Scythians,Sarmatians (basically people related to Iranians)

[alkyd]

None of this proves your 'Ukraine is the original Rus.'

Kiev was the capital of Russian Empire and then it was moved to Moscow. Even though you deny these facts, you can't deny Ukraine's historical and cultural connection with Russia.

Put yourself in the shoes of Russia. It's like Scotland would suddenly declare independence from London, and Russians will send their troops to support it. I am sure English government wouldn't be happy about it.

[Mithfin]

None of this proves your 'Ukraine is the original Rus.'

At some point Kiev was the capital of the first real united country of east slavic and finno-ugric tribes. That's it. Rome's rule over England at some point doesn't make all englishmen italians.

[alkyd]

At some point Kiev was the capital of the first real united country of east slavic and finno-ugric tribes. That's it. Rome's rule over England at some point doesn't make all englishman italians.

Yes, but Ukranians and Russians share common traditions, culture and language.

[Vyxn]

Would putin be relly that stupid to mess with the Nato / US?

what is Nato going to do draw a red line and then do nothing when that line is crossed like they have done countless other times they have drawn a line

[Deleted]

Yes, but Ukranians and Russians share common traditions, culture and language.

And are totally non natives of that region which were infact (Greeks,Scythians,Sarmatians,Finno-Ugrics and one Turkic tribe

[Bakis]

The history is totally irrelevant other than to acknowledge it is the reason why the country is split in how they view themselves, their ties to Europe and their tiers to Russia.

[Tastyfish]

Source for this? I think it would be all over the news if Russia was invading.

Troop deployment for drills near the border...
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe...046510360.html

[alkyd]

Scotland is very free to become independent, and are considering it. The English would be fine with that bit, though sending troops would be a bit redundant.

So is Ukraine, it's free and independent now. However, the government used to be pro-Russian, and now West are trying to get their own pro-Western puppet government into Ukraine. So if Scotland went independent and then set a pro-Russian government, that would not be very convenient for UK, would it?

[Mithfin]

Yes, but Ukranians and Russians share common traditions, culture and language.

Nope. It is close, as to be expected with ethnically close nations, but not the same. Languages are close-ish, but far from the same. Educated Russian can read ukrainian and understand about 70% of the text, but russians don't understand spoken ukrainian language without actually studying it.

[Ravenblade]

Yes, but Ukranians and Russians share common traditions, culture and language.

Same as Swiss, Austrians and Germans to a point. All these regions were once part of the same empire. Austria ended even up as de facto seat of the HRE through the capital Vienna. Shared history however does not have much of a say these days. It's nice for historical reasons but it doesn't give you any leverage when it comes to territorial claims today especially once a region is a recognized country by international law.

[alkyd]

Same as Swiss, Austrians and Germans to a point. All these regions were once part of the same empire. Austria ended even up as de facto capital of the HRE. Shared history however does not have much of a say these days. It's nice for historical reasons but it doesn't give you any leverage when it comes to territorial claims today especially once a region is a recognized country by international law.

Nevertheless, Swiss, Austrians and Germans share same ideology and political views. Russia and Ukraine shared their own political views until recently and that made Russia unhappy. If Switzerland suddenly went pro-Russian, I don't think EU would idle.