Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Destruktion]

No, I need flying to:

Speed up my gathering of herbs and ore
Get from point A to B faster than 150% speed
Efficiently move from zone to zone for Archaeology digs
Efficiently move from zone to zone to collect Battle Pets

These are not necessities, these are merely desires that when fulfilled negatively affect open-world gameplay like god-mode or noclip.
(in the context of flying, of course)

If people are forced to do a bunch of crap (read: bowling for mobs ad nauseum) on the way to goals, they will stop playing. If you think forcing people to play something they don't want to is a good idea, I can only imagine you are already guilty of doing just that.

Maybe they should quit then. Bowling for mobs ad nauseum is kind of the point here.

[Callace]

If that were true the game wouldn't have made it out of Vanilla. A game that doesn't put obstacles or challenges in your way isn't really a game at all.

The game has done nothing but ameliorate obstacles since vanilla. Dual-spec, LFD, LFR, Scenarios replaced group Q's, easier talent decisions, death of theory-crafting, cheaper/faster mounts...etc,etc,forever. People have always paid more for pixels than challenges. Look at the cash shops spreading like wildfire. Any other theories?

[Sjoa]

Honestly, what I imagine from a game is taking elements of the existing and accepted structure and expanding on them to create a more dynamic, fun and involved game. I don;t imagine them removing things that have been in place for an extended period of time to achieve the same goals. To me, it just reeks of a lack of creativity, and a lack of desire to strive to provide something new and original within the structures they have built.
It's true I have no idea what no flying in WoD will be like, but imo them cutting it out (potentially) restricts them adding anything new or substantial to what they have had going for several years now. Why not embrace this thing that's been in your game for years, consolidate all the ideas and gameplay mechanics they have used through out the years and deliver a kick ass ground/leveling experience, as well as an amazing and fantastic max level/flying content?
Why are they throwing out the baby to save the bath water (an old analogy I know).
Also, I agree that WoD has few of the things implemented in Cata/MoP, and that reverting some of those changes is wise. But HOW does flying fit into this catagory? Why not shared raid lock outs? Why not daily and weekly dungeon and raid quests? Why not go back to tons of dungeons and puggable raids? Why is the only thing getting singled out, flying (which was in the game years before the sub losses started) being cut?

I think they are choosing a different path of direction opposed to the one they went when they made Cataclysm mainly because of the bad reviews and loss of subscribers. One of the big things they started doing with Cataclysm was trying to implement new and creative content. And honestly, it didn't work out well, sadly.

They tried to bring in cool things like Earthquake to shamans (aynone remember what that looked like at the start?) Today it's gotten to a point where it is nearly impossible to enjoy combat due to the clusterfuck that is ground effects as we know it today. And as a result they are toning it down, because they acknowledge it's gotten over hand.

Flying in particular I think will be excluded due to the change of direction. A lot of the stuff you lists are fine the way they are today. No need for it to change. Technically, no need to not allow flying either. But as I have said many times, I think in Blizzards eyes, this is just something trivial. It will not affect us as much as people think.

We will just have to wait and see how it turns out. I am just super happy I have a positive view on the coming expansion. And I think that some people are over exaggerating when they threaten to delete their characters and never ever play again, only because of something that WILL be trivial.

Outland without flying, would not be something trivial. It would be a fucking mess without any borders. People would burn down Blizzard HQs if they had to play that on a daily basis for years. And that is what I feel like people are thinking it will be like with no flying on Draenor.

[Callace]

Maybe they should quit then. Bowling for mobs ad nauseum is kind of the point here.

That's the crux of the argument. They're the ones paying the bulk of Blizz's subs, people looking for extra challenges and more grinding permanently quit the game. Those that stayed will play no matter what, like Sjoa.

[Ordinator]

The game has done nothing but ameliorate obstacles since vanilla. Dual-spec, LFD, LFR, Scenarios replaced group Q's, easier talent decisions, death of theory-crafting, cheaper/faster mounts...etc,etc,forever. People have always paid more for pixels than challenges. Look at the cash shops spreading like wildfire. Any other theories?

And this coincides with subscription count bleeding.. So why wouldn't blizzard try to add more difficulty into the game? Oh and by the way, everything in this topic is either an opinion or theory.

[Callace]

Your followers will be doing the dirty work pal, kick back, relax. drink a beer on your bear and watch those labour class followers dig the dirt for you.

If they want to develop less world content, they're going to have to find a better excuse, or bite the bullet and replace the world with a stage-select menu. Who wants to pay for a game that's either completely-instanced or OCD tedious when it already exists for free?

[Destruktion]

That's the crux of the argument. They're the ones paying the bulk of Blizz's subs, people looking for extra challenges and more grinding permanently quit the game. Those that stayed will play no matter what, like Sjoa.

You don't know that for a fact. Everyone likes to say that the majority casual playerbase sides with THEIR point of view. The only evidence in existence to support your claim is that they quit when there's no progression to be had, the implications of which obviously have some significant room for interpretation.

[Sjoa]

That's the crux of the argument. They're the ones paying the bulk of Blizz's subs, people looking for extra challenges and more grinding permanently quit the game. Those that stayed will play no matter what, like Sjoa.

What the fuck dude. I posted earlier I recently got back to the game. I've been inactive since the launch of Cataclysm. Learn to fucking read you prick.

Infracted

[Callace]

Oh and by the way, everything in this topic is either an opinion or theory.

You're right, but I wouldn't bother discussing abstract principles when you can discuss what's really happening.

And this coincides with subscription count bleeding..

The sub counts will bleed no matter what, because no one wants to play a 10 year old game no matter how good it is. Retaining X subs after Y years the way WoW has isn't something that's happened before. That doesn't mean it's impervious to age though. It's freakish, not magical.

- - - Updated - - -

What the fuck dude. I posted earlier I recently got back to the game. I've been inactive since the launch of Cataclysm. Learn to fucking read you prick.

The game hasn't exactly pulled a 180. It's your loss, I wouldn't even admit something like that... I guess the really hooked people can relapse tho'

[Sjoa]

The game hasn't exactly pulled a 180. It's your loss, I wouldn't even admit something like that... I guess the really hooked people can relapse tho'

Relapse? You're talking as this game is a drug or something (?). I am happy to play whatever I feel is exiting. Cata and Mop: not so exiting. WoD: seems fucking awesome in my eyes. And in fact, Blizzard is reversing quite a few things. Which is why I am back. And who knows, maybe some of the five(5) million people that quit in the same period as me will feel the same! Still feel like blizzard will be 15-25% less subscribers after WoD? hehe

[Callace]

You don't know that for a fact. Everyone likes to say that the majority casual playerbase sides with THEIR point of view. The only evidence in existence to support your claim is that they quit when there's no progression to be had, the implications of which obviously have some significant room for interpretation.

Blizzard has said themselves that when they make the game harder, more people quit rather than try harder. Take it up with them! It isn't my observation, it's theirs!

- - - Updated - - -

Relapse? You're talking as this game is a drug or something (?). I am happy to play whatever I feel is exiting. Cata and Mop: not so exiting. WoD: seems fucking awesome in my eyes. And in fact, Blizzard is reversing quite a few things. Which is why I am back. And who knows, maybe some of the five(5) million people that quit in the same period as me will feel the same! Still feel like blizzard will be 15-25% less subscribers after WoD? hehe

I think if anything, they've dumbed down the game even more, recently. Especially with class designs. Those are just the trends I see. It's not like I have a lot invested in it at this point. You sound like you might, though. Coming back after an entire expack...seems pretty rare to me...but I guess it happens.

[Sjoa]

And making the game easier over the years has gotten them where? You think WoW is a better state today than it was say mid WotLK? The numbers speak for themselves. Even though I have to repeat them over and over again.

[Destruktion]

Blizzard has said themselves that when they make the game harder, more people quit than try harder. Take it up with them! It isn't my observation, it's theirs!

That's one INTERPRETATION of the evidence I was just talking about. Lots of people quit in Cata because they couldn't progress in heroics or raids. That doesn't mean the game can't be hard at parts, it just means that casuals need to have avenues for progression.
Besides, what's hard about steamrolling mobs, exactly? Needing to kill more mobs in the open world isn't exactly pre-nerf Cata launch heroics lol.

[Perkunas]

That's one INTERPRETATION of the evidence I was just talking about. Lots of people quit in Cata because they couldn't progress in heroics or raids. That doesn't mean the game can't be hard at parts, it just means that casuals need to have avenues for progression.
Besides, what's hard about steamrolling mobs, exactly? Needing to kill more mobs in the open world isn't exactly pre-nerf Cata launch heroics lol.

I still contend that having to actually think and using CC in heroics likely didn't lead to half of the people that quit when Cata hit and since then.

[Callace]

I still contend that having to actually think and using CC in heroics likely didn't lead to half of the people that quit when Cata hit and since then.

I really liked the Cata Hs. I think it had more to do with the lack of endgame and story.

[Destruktion]

I still contend that having to actually think and using CC in heroics likely didn't lead to half of the people that quit when Cata hit and since then.

I'm inclined to think so too, but I'm just going off of what Blizzard said at the time.

[Callace]

That's one INTERPRETATION of the evidence I was just talking about. Lots of people quit in Cata because they couldn't progress in heroics or raids. That doesn't mean the game can't be hard at parts, it just means that casuals need to have avenues for progression.
Besides, what's hard about steamrolling mobs, exactly? Needing to kill more mobs in the open world isn't exactly pre-nerf Cata launch heroics lol.

Right or wrong, whose interpretation is *Blizzard* going to use, yours or their own?

That doesn't mean they won't "buck the system" in WoD, I just don't see them breaking their own trajectory that much.

[Sjoa]

I think if anything, they've dumbed down the game even more, recently. Especially with class designs. Those are just the trends I see. It's not like I have a lot invested in it at this point. You sound like you might, though. Coming back after an entire expack...seems pretty rare to me...but I guess it happens.

Your 4.70 posts a day on average since december 2010 on an mmosite begs to differ, friend. Anways, gonna leave it with that..

I don't know if you're not able to see it or what is wrong with you but, Blizzard aims to trigger me and the 5 million they lost since the peak. Not the "15-25% of player base that loses thier flying abilities.

[Callace]

Your 4.70 posts a day on average since december 2010 on an mmosite begs to differ, friend. Anways, gonna leave it with that..
.

With all due respect, MMOC has the right amount of traffic and moderation and is pretty fun and lively. Many of those are Off-topic.

I don't know if you're not able to see it or what is wrong with you but, Blizzard aims to trigger me and the 5 million they lost since the peak. Not the "15-25% of player base that loses thier flying abilities.

They've been playing it safe for a long time. Call me a pessimist, but I think you overestimate them.

[Destruktion]

Right or wrong, whose interpretation is *Blizzard* going to use, yours or their own?

That doesn't mean they won't "buck the system" in WoD, I just don't see them breaking their own trajectory that much.

I would hope they go with the one that makes the most sense, regardless of who came up with it.

They already did break that trajectory though. Look at ToT isle and TI, where there is no flying and mobs everywhere. I have yet to see a bluepost that says those isles lost subs. And it is implied that this is the direction they are taking with WoD, so all this doomsaying about losing 15-25% of the player base in the first couple of months solely because of flying just doesn't make rational sense.