[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[PrimiOne]

Everything it's way simpler that you are making it : the MCU exist inside the comics universe ( E-199999) but the comic universe does NOT exist inside the MCU ( or at least there's no indication or hint of it).

Comics perspective

Earth Prime --> E616
MCU ---> E199999

Films perspective

Earth Prime --> E616
Comics universe --> N/A

If we are setting events the beggining of the heroic age ( at least the public part) is the FF getting hit by cosmic rays and fighting mole man in the comics and Tony Stark being kidnapped in the MCU.

If you are in the comics universe you can travel to E-199999 at 2008 and finding Stark f¡ghting Stane but if you are in the films universe you can not travel to any point in time/space where the FF sets the beggining of the heroic age.

And it's easy to see why the did this. For fans E616 is synonymous of main universe so if the MCU would have gone the E199999 path as main universe we could have asked: Wait...is this the Main universe then? Are we gonna find in "DrStrange 5 : Wrath of Wong" that the E616 exist and the FF started the heroic age there?

The answer is no: they have chosen E616 as MCU main universe to set marked in fire that this is the main universe and that there's never ever be a E616 comic universe inside it.

E616 es the Earth Prime of the MCU and will always be.

[Lady Atia]

I never disputed that the movie is right. It’s confusing to use the same designation for two different Earths. Even if one is MCU and the other is comics.

Why? We also have Earth-1 for the DC comics and Earth-1 for the DC movies, etc. Nothing confusing about it.

[Lady Atia]

The DC movies haven’t discussed the multiverse yet. The CW shows did, but the literal reason behind it was “I like how Earth Prime sounds, so we’re just using that.” And they didn’t release official materials stating a different number before deciding to make Mysterio the multiverse’s greatest guesser.

I’m not saying it was impenetrable, just a confusing choice to retcon it to 616 canonically.

It's not really a retcon, 616 was already used in one of the Thor movies a while before FFH. Mysterio can just have gotten that info from Selvig's theories.

616 was always the prime earth of marvel comics, so it makes sense that the MCU prime earth is also 616. Now we only need the mutants and F4 movie because right now, 838 looks more comic accurate to comics 616 than our current one. I'm guessing the F4 are somewhere trapped in the quantum realm while the mutants are currently hiding on Krakoa to go with Hickman's House of X arcs.

[Orby]

spoiler from dr strange 2:
iirc christie also said the mcu earth is 616

I thought the MCU was Earth-199999. How is that even possible that it is 616... unless the MCU start speaking in comic panels, which would be hilarious. lol.

To even cross the MCU with the 616 universe would be impossible as they are two different mediums

[Lady Atia]

Eh, it’s a poorly written 616 on a chalk board at best. More of an Easter Egg than any kind of confirmation. And it honestly looks more like Universe 66 than 616. And that would still be a retcon considering they officially designated it Earth-199999 when the MCU originally launched. I get the argument for the “prime” Earth being 616. It just seems weird that so many people are randomly getting that knowledge or just guessing it.

It was never officially designated as Earth-199999 outside of that weird guide book though, and that can be easily retconned without any issue. Besides that, 199999 sounds dumb as hell anyways. I'm glad they finally 100% confirmed that it's 616 with MoM.

[Endus]

It was never officially designated as Earth-199999 outside of that weird guide book though, and that can be easily retconned without any issue. Besides that, 199999 sounds dumb as hell anyways. I'm glad they finally 100% confirmed that it's 616 with MoM.

The problem is that even if its official designation is "616", it still can't be the same 616 as the comics universe.

Literally cannot be. There's too many wild differences.

Just by way of obvious examples, this is what Earth-616 Nick Fury looks like, in the comics;


And here's what he looks like in the MCU;



There's a pretty glaring difference, there, once you look past the eyepatch.

Meanwhile, here's the Nick Fury from Earth-1610;



Who does look exactly like the MCU Nick (since they designed him after Sam Jackson, with permission, and that's basically why we've got him in the MCU today, so it's not a coincidence).

The MCU is not the same continuity as the Earth-616 comics, and it's baffling that people try and make that argument.

[Lady Atia]

The problem is that even if its official designation is "616", it still can't be the same 616 as the comics universe.

Literally cannot be. There's too many wild differences.

Just by way of obvious examples, this is what Earth-616 Nick Fury looks like, in the comics;


And here's what he looks like in the MCU;



There's a pretty glaring difference, there, once you look past the eyepatch.

Meanwhile, here's the Nick Fury from Earth-1610;



Who does look exactly like the MCU Nick (since they designed him after Sam Jackson, with permission, and that's basically why we've got him in the MCU today, so it's not a coincidence).

The MCU is not the same continuity as the Earth-616 comics, and it's baffling that people try and make that argument.

I never said it's the same? Actually, I said the opposite. The MCU is not connected to the comics multiverse. Instead you have a multiverse that's consisting of all the animated and live action stuff.

[Endus]

I never said it's the same? Actually, I said the opposite. The MCU is not connected to the comics multiverse. Instead you have a multiverse that's consisting of all the animated and live action stuff.

Well, that's the problem.

Earth-616 is that prime comics universe (not multiverse; ALL of these are part of the same united multiverse, even the MCU).

If you're saying the MCU is Earth-616, you're arguing they're the same universe. Or you've got to admit that the labelling in MCU films is just an easter egg and doesn't constitute its actual entry in Marvel canon universal labelling.

[Lady Atia]

Well, that's the problem.

Earth-616 is that prime comics universe.

If you're saying the MCU is Earth-616, you're arguing they're the same universe. Or you've got to admit that the labelling in MCU films is just an easter egg and doesn't constitute its actual entry in Marvel canon universal labelling.

No? THEY ARE SEPERATE MULTIVERSES. And not connected.

Each Multiverse can have it's own 616, they are only connected through the megaverse/omniverse.

[Endus]

No? THEY ARE SEPERATE MULTIVERSES. And not connected.

I have no idea why you'd even think this. And I seriously doubt you've got anything like a source for it.

Each Multiverse can have it's own 616, they are only connected through the megaverse/omniverse.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Omniverse

The Omniverse includes "literally everything". It includes DC comics. It includes Star Wars. It includes Lord of the Rings. It includes Dragon Ball Z. It includes My Little Pony. And so on. It's explicitly to connect to stuff outside of Marvel.

The Megaverse is for Marvel properties only distantly related to the core superhero stuff.

I don't see how the MCU is different enough to qualify for relegation to either, rather than just the core Marvel multiverse. Nor have I seen any official description that states that to be true. If universes like Earth-8311, where everyone's a anthropomorphic animal toon version like Spider-Ham, qualifies as being part of the core Multiverse, why would the MCU not qualify?

[Lady Atia]

I have no idea why you'd even think this. And I seriously doubt you've got anything like a source for it.



https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Omniverse

The Omniverse includes "literally everything". It includes DC comics. It includes Star Wars. It includes Lord of the Rings. It includes Dragon Ball Z. It includes My Little Pony. And so on. It's explicitly to connect to stuff outside of Marvel.

The Megaverse is for Marvel properties only distantly related to the core superhero stuff.

I don't see how the MCU is different enough to qualify for relegation to either, rather than just the core Marvel multiverse. Nor have I seen any official description that states that to be true. If universes like Earth-8311, where everyone's a anthropomorphic animal toon version like Spider-Ham, qualifies as being part of the core Multiverse, why would the MCU not qualify?

Because they are different mediums? The MCU is an adaption of the comics 616, it's not a side story to them. It's like thinking that books LotR or ASoIAF = their movies/series counterparts.

[Endus]

Because they are different mediums? The MCU is an adaption of the comics 616, it's not a side story to them. It's like thinking that books LotR or ASoIAF = their movies/series counterparts.

And yet, the animated TV shows are part of the same Multiverse; https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-92131

The Maguire film universe is part of the same Multiverse; https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Peter..._(Earth-96283)

The Garfield film universe, too; https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Peter...(Earth-120703)

And we know both of the latter crossed over into the MCU.

Here's the Blade film universe; https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-26320

Fox' X-men film universe; https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-10005

Even the Daredevil and Elektra films have a universe designation; https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-701306

You don't have any basis for the distinction you're trying to draw. No citation, no source, you're just making it up as you go.

[PrimiOne]

Nor have I seen any official description that states that to be true

Do you need the Capt. Britain corps to show up in the MCU to explicitly tell you it is E616? Is this official?

Because...What is exactly your theory? Christine Palmer is not a part of the Capt. Britain corps and therefore has no official say in the universe denomination so she is either trolling main MCU universe or it's just her perspective but once the official corps show up the MCU will be E199999 so Christine words are not "official"?

Is this? No, I know it isn't.... You have expressed before that Christine words are just an easter egg so we shouldn't take seriously and that makes me wonder....Do you really think that once we go ahead in the multiversal content MCU Earth Prime will be other than E616? Really?

I wouldn't put a single egg in that basket....

Look...it is what it is. You hate it because it brokes apart the omniversal canon....but it obviously is. The next references to the main MCU universe will still be 616 and will still be different from the comics E616...so it's better if we just accept it ,move on and have an ME-616 and a CE-616.

[Endus]

Do you need the Capt. Britain corps to show up in the MCU to explicitly tell you it is E616? Is this official?

If you're asking me to believe it's Earth-616, you're asking me to deny my own eyes, because it clearly is not and cannot be.

Could it be labelled 616 within its own context, incorrectly, because the people inside the MCU don't have any way to know the "official" universe designations? Sure. But those don't make the MCU the same setting as the Earth-616 prime comics universe. And it never can, because they're obviously not the same.

Because...What is exactly your theory? Christine Palmer is not a part of the Capt. Britain corps and therefore has no official say in the universe denomination so she is either trolling main MCU universe or it's just her perspective but once the official corps show up the MCU will be E199999 so Christine words are not "official"?

"Christine was wrong/talking about a different numbering system entirely". I haven't seen Multiverse of Madness yet, I can't speak to the specifics and really don't want spoilers, but she can't be "correct", here. Because the MCU is blatantly not the same continuity as the Earth-616 comics universe. They are distinct and separate.

Is this? No, I know it isn't.... You have expressed before that Christine words are just an easter egg so we shouldn't take seriously and that makes me wonder....Do you really think that once we go ahead in the multiversal content MCU Earth Prime will be other than E616? Really?

Yeah. It cannot be Earth-616, in the canonical designations. That's the prime comics universe, which the MCU isn't. Maybe they'll do something silly and make the MCU "Earth-616B" or something, but that seems pointless and confusing.

I didn't make any statements about Christine's comments being an "easter egg", since I haven't seen the film and can't say; my comments there were about Mysterio's use of "Earth-616", because that dude didn't know about the Multiverse and was making everything he said up out of nothing.

Also, every universe is its own "prime", from its own perspective. Earth-616 isn't Earth-1 for a reason.

Look...it is what it is. You hate it because it brokes apart the omniversal canon....but it obviously is. The next references to the main MCU universe will still be 616 and will still be different from the comics E616...so it's better if we just accept it ,move on and have an ME-616 and a CE-616.

It doesn't "break" anything, and it doesn't involve the Omniverse at all. Again; Omniverse = non-Marvel content. And "Megaverse" isn't helpful, since that's still included in the canonical universe numbering system.

All the live-action films, including the MCU, have canonical universal designations already. A character in-universe giving the wrong designation doesn't mean the canon's changed retroactively, it just means that character's wrong or talking about something else. And it certainly doesn't mean the MCU is the same universe as the comics prime universe.

[Lady Atia]

If you're asking me to believe it's Earth-616, you're asking me to deny my own eyes, because it clearly is not and cannot be.

Could it be labelled 616 within its own context, incorrectly, because the people inside the MCU don't have any way to know the "official" universe designations? Sure. But those don't make the MCU the same setting as the Earth-616 prime comics universe. And it never can, because they're obviously not the same.



"Christine was wrong/talking about a different numbering system entirely". I haven't seen Multiverse of Madness yet, I can't speak to the specifics and really don't want spoilers, but she can't be "correct", here. Because the MCU is blatantly not the same continuity as the Earth-616 comics universe. They are distinct and separate.



Yeah. It cannot be Earth-616, in the canonical designations. That's the prime comics universe, which the MCU isn't. Maybe they'll do something silly and make the MCU "Earth-616B" or something, but that seems pointless and confusing.

I didn't make any statements about Christine's comments being an "easter egg", since I haven't seen the film and can't say; my comments there were about Mysterio's use of "Earth-616", because that dude didn't know about the Multiverse and was making everything he said up out of nothing.

Also, every universe is its own "prime", from its own perspective. Earth-616 isn't Earth-1 for a reason.



It doesn't "break" anything, and it doesn't involve the Omniverse at all. Again; Omniverse = non-Marvel content. And "Megaverse" isn't helpful, since that's still included in the canonical universe numbering system.

All the live-action films, including the MCU, have canonical universal designations already. A character in-universe giving the wrong designation doesn't mean the canon's changed retroactively, it just means that character's wrong or talking about something else. And it certainly doesn't mean the MCU is the same universe as the comics prime universe.

Again, you are wrong. The comics universe listenings is a one way ticket and HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MCU besides inspring it. Because again, the MCU is an adaption of the comics, not a spin-off or continuation or whatever you want it to be. Kevin Feige himself refered to the prime MCU earth as "616" in recent Interviews during the MoM premiere, and he also said the multiverse for the MCU is there thanks to the Loki series. These events never happened to the comics btw. Because again, they are not really connected. Yes, the comics have listenings for worlds that may be similiar to the ones from the movies as easter eggs but that's only a one-way canon.

The prime earth depicted in the MCU is 616, will always be 616, and is not the same as the comics world BECAUSE again, they are NOT connected from the MCU's point of view.

Another example for this will be Kang the Conquerer - he will be the Kang Prime from the MCU Multiverse and not be the same Kang Prime as the one depicted in the comics, because again, it is an ADAPTION.

[PrimiOne]

All the live-action films, including the MCU, have canonical universal designations already. A character in-universe giving the wrong designation doesn't mean the canon's changed retroactively, it just means that character's wrong or talking about something else. And it certainly doesn't mean the MCU is the same universe as the comics prime universe.

If you haven't film the movie it's difficult to argue without spoiling things beyond the already spoiled ( wich I suspect you already knew before I mentioned it mostly because you were discusssing about it) so let's simplify: Christine is wrong or is just her perspective and the MCU won't be E616 ( at most E616B you say).

Time , the ultimate arbiter , will tell ,not gonna die on this hill but I should mention that after seeing the movie: no single person I have talked beyond you consider Christine is wrong ( don't think in Christine as you last saw it..well I stop here,already said more that I should) and the only way to reconcile the obvious contradiction of the ME-616 not being the same as the CE-616 is that the MCU is contained in the comics multiverse but the comics universe is not contained in the MCU.

So time will tell: if Christine is wrong you are right...if they go for E616B you are right....if the denomination of the MCU Earth Prime keeps being E616 you are gonna have to accept the contradiction and simply deal with Marvel Studios prefering a name ( 616) that in our minds equals "Main" over multiversal coherence.

[Lady Atia]

If you haven't film the movie it's difficult to argue without spoiling things beyond the already spoiled ( wich I suspect you already knew before I mentioned it mostly because you were discusssing about it) so let's simplify: Christine is wrong or is just her perspective and the MCU won't be E616 ( at most E616B you say).

Time , the ultimate arbiter , will tell ,not gonna die on this hill but I should mention that after seeing the movie: no single person I have talked beyond you consider Christine is wrong ( don't think in Christine as you last saw it..well I stop here,already said more that I should) and the only way to reconcile the obvious contradiction of the ME-616 not being the same as the CE-616 is that the MCU is contained in the comics multiverse but the comics universe is not contained in the MCU.

So time will tell: if Christine is wrong you are right...if they go for E616B you are right....if the denomination of the MCU Earth Prime keeps being E616 you are gonna have to accept the contradiction and simply deal with Marvel Studios prefering a name ( 616) that in our minds equals "Main" over multiversal coherence.

Honestly, it makes sense that you don't want the baggage of the comics if you are dealing with something as huge as marvel (both the MCU and the comics themselves). It's basically similiar to what they did with Star Wars and the old EU - they would rather have a clean state to build something good than have to deal with a huge amount of lore that's quite frankly, 50/50 split on stuff that's great (for example hickmans recent runs for f4 or his x-men reboot) and stuff that's just bad (hello fu manchu or the original all male eternals lineup).

Besides that, it makes sense to have the MCU as it's prime earth for story telling purposes - why should I even care for it if the comics earth would be the "true" prime earth? While "it's really all connected" would be cute on paper, that's not how adaptions work.

[qwerty123456]

Because your only reason to want a different actress is that she's taller, not that she can better portray the character.



Tom Cruise does that, like, a lot.

But regardless, we can see the height of the character. Maybe we're off by an inch or two without a tape to go by. But it's not that complicated.



Except the height difference is not "less than a foot". As we can see, on-screen. This is where you start making stuff up that has no basis in the MCU, and holding it to your personal made-up non-standard.



It literally can't be. To the point that any such indication in an MCU film, like the one in Far From Home, has to be presumed to be an error or an issue of perspective.

The characters in the MCU have wildly divergent origin stories and what story elements are borrowed are changed heavily. It's clearly not the same universe. Or Peter would've known some version of the villains that showed up in No Way Home, and he clearly didn't. Just as one super obvious example. Hell, for another; where's Uncle Ben? He's always been there in Peter's story from the start, in the Earth-616 continuity. And he's not here, in the MCU; not only just not present, but literally has never existed.

You can't seriously claim the MCU is actually Earth-616 in the Marvel continuity.

How do you know someone couldn't play she hulk better? Are you assuming all taller actresses are worse skill wise than her voicing a cgi character? Also acting is more than just vocal performance.

Tom Cruise shows his drivers license in all his films to establish his characters with an official height? What are you going on about? And where does She Hulk say their canonical heights? You are assuming because the actress is 5 foot 4 that the character is.


It literally can't be? Have you forgot about all the time travel and pruning and shit done by Nathaniel Richards and others? You are choosing to ignore in universe lore for your own fanfictions. Sure it could be an error but it also could be the actual 616 earth after the massive fuckery that happened. Or they could say that there are separate multiverses and the "main" universe in each media is a 616 universe.

The problem is that even if its official designation is "616", it still can't be the same 616 as the comics universe.

Literally cannot be. There's too many wild differences.

Just by way of obvious examples, this is what Earth-616 Nick Fury looks like, in the comics;


And here's what he looks like in the MCU;



There's a pretty glaring difference, there, once you look past the eyepatch.

Meanwhile, here's the Nick Fury from Earth-1610;



Who does look exactly like the MCU Nick (since they designed him after Sam Jackson, with permission, and that's basically why we've got him in the MCU today, so it's not a coincidence).

The MCU is not the same continuity as the Earth-616 comics, and it's baffling that people try and make that argument.

Aren't you one of the people that call others racist when they want a character to look like they are in the comics? If looks don't matter then why would you assume Samuel L Jackson isn't playing the original Nick Fury? Or does looks/race only matter when you are trying to win an argument?

[Endus]

How do you know someone couldn't play she hulk better? Are you assuming all taller actresses are worse skill wise than her voicing a cgi character? Also acting is more than just vocal performance.

I'm not entertaining bad-faith garbage like this.

Aren't you one of the people that call others racist when they want a character to look like they are in the comics?

Nope. You're makin' shit up.

If looks don't matter then why would you assume Samuel L Jackson isn't playing the original Nick Fury? Or does looks/race only matter when you are trying to win an argument?

Are you telling me you seriously can't see the difference between the two versions? There's that bad faith again.

Casting someone that mixes things up is part of what distinguishes one universe from another. This is literally why Marvel has its canonical universe designations, to track and separate all those distinct takes on various characters into their own unique canons. Every new take is a peek into a new universe. That's how it works.

[qwerty123456]

I'm not entertaining bad-faith garbage like this.



Nope. You're makin' shit up.



Are you telling me you seriously can't see the difference between the two versions? There's that bad faith again.

Casting someone that mixes things up is part of what distinguishes one universe from another. This is literally why Marvel has its canonical universe designations, to track and separate all those distinct takes on various characters into their own unique canons. Every new take is a peek into a new universe. That's how it works.

Something isn't bad faith just because they point out your ignorance. You were the one to claim the only reason I wanted them to use a second actor was because she would be taller when the whole point was the cgi wasn't good looking.

There certainly is a difference between brown and grey haired white nick fury and Sam Jackson. I have always said I like when they make the actors look like the characters they portray. Someone that doesn't think that shouldn't use the difference as an argument why they can't be the same character especially when we already know Marvel has used actors of different race/gender/haircolor/whatever then the comic versions. Maybe I was wrong about you calling someone who wanted a X ______ or what ever racist for wanting them to look like they do in the comics. Sorry if you didn't but given how hostile you have been lately and using "do you disagree with X and Y then your blank" I think I'll search all the movie threads and check to see if did or didn't care if a character looked the part before I just trust you.