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  1. #1001
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjau View Post
    When you force someone into a situation they desperately don't want to be in, you can't be surprised that they eventually snap and do something drastic.
    Obviously we will never know all facts of this case, but I will take the side of the girl. Losing control of your life at age 14 doesn't sound that great to me. If she was fine with arranged marriage and happy with the situation she wouldn't do this. If she had a chance at running a way, don't you think she would do that? If her husband was innocent and didn't want to be married to her either, don't you think he would have helped to resolve the situation in some way?
    To me it seems like she was desperate for a way out and also found a way out. For her whatever comes after this seemed like a better life than what she had. Doesn't that say something about the situation she was in?
    You are imparting your western and 1st world morals onto their 3rd world situations. She didn't kill him because she wanted to say fuck you to the system. She didn't kill him out of fear of being raped. She killed him because she didn't love him. As in, if she was forced into an arranged marriage with someone else, and she liked that person more, she would of not killed him.

    As i mentioned earlier in this thread, Arranged marriages are an embedded part of that regions entire culture. The act, in the light of western morality is awful. That is true, but it is not happening in western society with a western culture.

    You cannot hope to understand their culture if you continue to judge them on your standards. By Nigerian cultural standards, that girl is a murderer who murdered an innocent probably upstanding member of society.

    Again, its easy for us to shit on another cultures immoral acts (For those of you who need it spelt out for you, i think using woman as a currency in an exchange is extremely disgusting and nobody should be subjugated to an arrange marriage) but for them in that entire culture, that is the way things ARE.
    Last edited by Ralgarog; 2014-04-11 at 05:38 PM.

  2. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    ..you know..for all my sarcasm and wit..and bantering with Rich...im pretty accepting of opposing viewpoints and opinions. In this case however, I would like to petition a Mod to ban this fucking tard forever, if only for the sole purpose of winning "the stupidest fuck I've ever seen" award.
    Seems like you have no idea that there are other kind of societies in the world outside of the standard western one.

    And if we start talking about the human rights problems in those countries, child marriages aren't even top of that list.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfest View Post
    I prefer "enclosed creationist" but yeah, I'm a flat earther.

  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    No, her actions tell nothing about the situation she was in. They just tell what she did and was capable of doing. She is a murderer and we don't know about her mental status. She probably was psychotic and lunatic in the first place, being forced to marry just didn't make things any better for her.

    This is probably a very similar case to all these school shootings/stabbings.
    Since forced marriage is very often linked to violence towards the female(honor killings and so on), I think it is more likely that this girl was in a bad situation and did something desperate than that she was just crazy. Sure there's a small chance she was, but that would be a weird coincidence.

  4. #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjau View Post
    Since forced marriage is very often linked to violence towards the female(honor killings and so on), I think it is more likely that this girl was in a bad situation and did something desperate than that she was just crazy. Sure there's a small chance she was, but that would be a weird coincidence.
    I don't think so.

    You realize that these kinds of marriages are pretty much standard there. If the situation was that bad, there would be a whole lot of murdering.

    More likely is that she was just crazy and majority of the marriages work out alright.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfest View Post
    I prefer "enclosed creationist" but yeah, I'm a flat earther.

  5. #1005
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjau View Post
    Since forced marriage is very often linked to violence towards the female(honor killings and so on), I think it is more likely that this girl was in a bad situation and did something desperate than that she was just crazy. Sure there's a small chance she was, but that would be a weird coincidence.
    You are severely mixing up your cultures, buddy. In Ghana for example the vast majority of marriages are arranged marriages the difference there is a its usually between a group of people that know each other. A grandfather can outright reject someone's marriage if they do not agree to the terms of the items being received by the marriage. Stating a fact of how things are is not the same as agreeing with it.

  6. #1006
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    You are imparting your western and 1st world morals onto their 3rd world situations. She didn't kill him because she wanted to say fuck you to the system. She didn't kill him out of fear of being raped. She killed him because she didn't love him. As in, if she was forced into an arranged marriage with someone else, and she liked that person more, she would of not killed him.

    As i mentioned earlier in this thread, Arranged marriages are an embedded part of that regions entire culture. The act, in the light of western morality is awful. That is true, but it is not happening in western society with a western culture.

    You cannot hope to understand their culture if you continue to judge them on your standards. By Nigerian cultural standards, that girl is a murderer who murdered an innocent probably upstanding member of society.

    Again, its easy for us to shit on another cultures immoral acts (For those of you who need it spelt out for you, i think using woman as a currency in an exchange is extremely disgusting and nobody should be subjugated to an arrange marriage) but for them in that entire culture, that is the way things ARE.
    Sure that is the way things are, but that doesn't mean they are happy. Obviously this girl wasn't. I never said she did it to say fuck the system or whatever. I said she did it to get out of a situation she didn't want to be in. Even if it was only becasue she didn't love him, she was still forced into something she wanted no part of. A major lifechanging decision was made without her, she had no choice in it. If you think she should have just accepted it because that's the way it is for them, then that's just makes it even worse.

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratra View Post
    Because of the culture he was raised in, he might indeed have not felt like he was a rapist. That doesn't mean the girl isn't raped. Just because their culture condones women being forced to have sex against their will, doesn't mean it isn't rape.

    Telling a MAN OR WOMAN who has been forced to have sex that they weren't raped doesn't make them feel any less raped. Does a man who is mocked, called gay, for claiming to have been raped by a woman feel less raped? No, he does not. Unless you, sir, are a misandrist.

    Same logic. Just because our culture doesn't treat men who have been raped seriously does not diminish what has happened to them. It just allows their rapists to escape culpability.
    You didn't understand anything from my post.

    The girl wasn't raped.

    Whether she would've been in the future is irrelevant. The guy you claim to be a rapist wasn't one.

  8. #1008
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjau View Post
    Sure that is the way things are, but that doesn't mean they are happy. Obviously this girl wasn't. I never said she did it to say fuck the system or whatever. I said she did it to get out of a situation she didn't want to be in. Even if it was only becasue she didn't love him, she was still forced into something she wanted no part of. A major lifechanging decision was made without her, she had no choice in it. If you think she should have just accepted it because that's the way it is for them, then that's just makes it even worse.
    Look. I can see that you are a nice guy and you are approaching this from a sincere place in your heart.

    However your morals do not apply here. Nor do top layer objective morals such as "killing is bad" or "Rape is bad".

    The society that you are looking in on has a different set of morals and a different set of expectations. You really don't seem to be understanding that. In her society, that is the way 50% of marriages are made. In her town, that is the way 100% of the marriages are made. It is, within her society, a social expectation as a female, to look forward to who she's going to be paired with and maybe hope that its someone that she would love.

    I do not agree with her society. I do not agree with her societal expectations. However it does not matter what i think about the situation. My opinion does not change reality.

    She, within the context of her society, acted out of line and committed murder.

    Let me try to put this into a similar situation using western situations and morals.

    A girl and a boy fell in love. At this point in their life they are living together. At a point the boy proposes to the girl. She agrees. Later that same night she murders him. Her reason was, "He forced me into a situation where the only possible answer was yes because if i said no he would of kicked me out. I don't have a job and i have no family to go to."

    She is absolutely 100% correct with what she said. However the guy did absolutely nothing wrong and he fully conformed to societal grounds. Maybe there is some future alien society they have a morality where you should not force a woman into a situation like that, however who are they to say that the woman was right in this case?

    My hypothetical example is more than likely just as stupid to you, as the concept of the real case to a lot of Nigerians.

  9. #1009
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralikon View Post
    Haha all you people are cheering this mass murderer on? She killed the perpetrators friends, you can cheer her on maybe if she killed just the dude but no she killed a bunch of extra people "quite simply" because she's a crazy bitch who takes other people's lives just cuz she was treated wrong.
    there is no innocents if they aprove marriage like that

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHast View Post
    You didn't understand anything from my post.

    The girl wasn't raped.

    Whether she would've been in the future is irrelevant. The guy you claim to be a rapist wasn't one.
    And you don't understand anything I posted. Just because their culture doesn't acknowledge a woman being forced to have sex as being rape, doesn't mean she isn't being raped. Just because our culture doesn't always acknowledge a man being forced to have sex with a woman as being rape, doesn't mean he wasn't raped.

    If you take the exact same logic though-- handwaving it away as part of the culture, that if their society doesn't consider it to be rape then it isn't rape, then you are a misandrist because you don't believe men can be raped by women. Our culture doesn't seem to think so, so that's just how things are right? Must not be rape then, right? Wrong.

    I believe that if a man, woman, or child is forced to have sex against their will, they have been raped. Now, not everyone agrees with that, apparently including you.

  11. #1011
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    I getting Tired of this. the girl was in bad situation and arguing that she's pyscho, evil, a murderer and shit is tiring me out. Seriously, because she committed murder because of terrible conditions One 49.99.... for people are saying she or implying she's evil and the other 49.99..... are saying she should have do some else instead of murder. while a small group which include myself respect who TRULY sympathise with her and the trouble she's going through. and like said once. It's like bullying. she being forced into marriage but she fight's back and now she's in a worse situation then before. People, Get rid of that fucking annoy "all life is sacred" shit. because antagonising the girl for murder is the most morally righteous thing to do? Fuck no Morals are the standard and actions that people that are good and those who are bad based on both altruism and pragmatism. no some holier then thou crap that tells you to refrain form "immoral" acts like sex or swearing, and preaching about taking the moral high ground and using that to justify being an ass, because you "did" some or you are some "good" you did this is a game where you earn point for being "good" and you then us them to do what the hell you like to do without repercussions until you need to do good when the charade is near over?

    Bitch please. While I have seen a lot of good point made by people like I said before in an earlier post was this: If anyone remember watching A Time to Kill with Matthew McConaughey and Samuel L. Jackson. Hope you remember that the court could only empathise with the Father and his raped daughter after hearing the story with the twist of " now imagine she's white". Think about that. Would you persecute a girl in Europe or America for murdering someone who raped or forced you into a marriage? Would you hate Jaycee Lee Dugard if she fought back and killed Phillip Nancy Garrido during or even before she got abducted? would you call that murder or self-defence?

    what I see in this thread is mostly just talks about "is she really evil, is she really crazy" This is where I have to put my foot down regardless of religion, culture and ethnics and say. Stop indulging your self-righteous, afraid to get your hands dirty mentality and start realising that nearly all of you's are simply not worrying or caring about the fact she just a young girl forced into stressful and and miserable situation. this whole thread just stinks of ignorance, apathy, sexism and racism because I highly doubt that would anyone here see this as controversial. just another topic to waste 6+ hour ranting and debating about something that is crystal clear those to see thing outside that box.

    So if people here just to read the thing's that they type here instead of figuring out what is the right attitude to see this as. then I just give up
    Nihilism is not the end but the beginning of what is real. Making something out of nothing.
    Yeah I'm an Asshole but I'd rather be critical as fuck than to sugarcoat everything in fear of offending people. Get tough and endure.

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by Goranus View Post
    I getting Tired of this. the girl was in bad situation and arguing that she's pyscho, evil, a murderer and shit is tiring me out. Seriously, because she committed murder because of terrible conditions One 49.99.... for people are saying she or implying she's evil and the other 49.99..... are saying she should have do some else instead of murder. while a small group which include myself respect who TRULY sympathise with her and the trouble she's going through. and like said once. It's like bullying. she being forced into marriage but she fight's back and now she's in a worse situation then before. People, Get rid of that fucking annoy "all life is sacred" shit. because antagonising the girl for murder is the most morally righteous thing to do? Fuck no Morals are the standard and actions that people that are good and those who are bad based on both altruism and pragmatism. no some holier then thou crap that tells you to refrain form "immoral" acts like sex or swearing, and preaching about taking the moral high ground and using that to justify being an ass, because you "did" some or you are some "good" you did this is a game where you earn point for being "good" and you then us them to do what the hell you like to do without repercussions until you need to do good when the charade is near over?

    Bitch please. While I have seen a lot of good point made by people like I said before in an earlier post was this: If anyone remember watching A Time to Kill with Matthew McConaughey and Samuel L. Jackson. Hope you remember that the court could only empathise with the Father and his raped daughter after hearing the story with the twist of " now imagine she's white". Think about that. Would you persecute a girl in Europe or America for murdering someone who raped or forced you into a marriage? Would you hate Jaycee Lee Dugard if she fought back and killed Phillip Nancy Garrido during or even before she got abducted? would you call that murder or self-defence?

    what I see in this thread is mostly just talks about "is she really evil, is she really crazy" This is where I have to put my foot down regardless of religion, culture and ethnics and say. Stop indulging your self-righteous, afraid to get your hands dirty mentality and start realising that nearly all of you's are simply not worrying or caring about the fact she just a young girl forced into stressful and and miserable situation. this whole thread just stinks of ignorance, apathy, sexism and racism because I highly doubt that would anyone here see this as controversial. just another topic to waste 6+ hour ranting and debating about something that is crystal clear those to see thing outside that box.

    So if people here just to read the thing's that they type here instead of figuring out what is the right attitude to see this as. then I just give up
    Your opinion is irrelevant in a situation like this.

    Its good to argue with how you think things should be.

    Some people think that it is immoral for corporations to be completely screwing people over. Should people take up arms and stab a CEO in the face because of their dream of how things should be?

    In response to the bold point: Again, that is irrelevant because your hypothetical situation is not the situation at hand, nor is the morality of that country based on western or your hypothetical morals.
    Last edited by Ralgarog; 2014-04-11 at 06:14 PM.

  13. #1013
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    To put things in perspective - arranged marriages are worldwide the standard compared to the "free marriage" we nowadays have in western countries.
    At least the Chinese, Japanese, Indians, whole Africa have arranged marriages. That's more than half of the world population already.

    Even in Finland you don't need to look far back in time when arranged marriages were the standard. That was the thing not longer than about 100 years ago. Marriages were arranged, we still have a remnant of that tradition where the bride's father pays for the costs of weddings.

    And when we look at the age of the brides - in Finland (evangelic lutheran church) kids get Confirmation (I hope you know the meaning) at the age of 14 to 15. When you are "Confirmed" you are legally ready for being wedded. 100 years ago it was a standard that marriages were arranged and men married 14-16 year old girls.

    That's completely normal.

    PS. I vouch for arranged marriages, those marriages statistically work a lot better than these modern "free marriages". A lot less divorcing and happier couples. Your family has a lot better judgment in choosing a partner for you than what you have in 3 promille drunk state at some random bar at 4am in Saturday night. That's where most of relationships start, and it's not a good start for a relationship.
    Last edited by Puupi; 2014-04-11 at 06:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfest View Post
    I prefer "enclosed creationist" but yeah, I'm a flat earther.

  14. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goranus View Post
    I getting Tired of this. the girl was in bad situation and arguing that she's pyscho, evil, a murderer and shit is tiring me out. Seriously, because she committed murder because of terrible conditions One 49.99.... for people are saying she or implying she's evil and the other 49.99..... are saying she should have do some else instead of murder. while a small group which include myself respect who TRULY sympathise with her and the trouble she's going through. and like said once. It's like bullying. she being forced into marriage but she fight's back and now she's in a worse situation then before. People, Get rid of that fucking annoy "all life is sacred" shit. because antagonising the girl for murder is the most morally righteous thing to do? Fuck no Morals are the standard and actions that people that are good and those who are bad based on both altruism and pragmatism. no some holier then thou crap that tells you to refrain form "immoral" acts like sex or swearing, and preaching about taking the moral high ground and using that to justify being an ass, because you "did" some or you are some "good" you did this is a game where you earn point for being "good" and you then us them to do what the hell you like to do without repercussions until you need to do good when the charade is near over?

    Bitch please. While I have seen a lot of good point made by people like I said before in an earlier post was this: If anyone remember watching A Time to Kill with Matthew McConaughey and Samuel L. Jackson. Hope you remember that the court could only empathise with the Father and his raped daughter after hearing the story with the twist of " now imagine she's white". Think about that. Would you persecute a girl in Europe or America for murdering someone who raped or forced you into a marriage? Would you hate Jaycee Lee Dugard if she fought back and killed Phillip Nancy Garrido during or even before she got abducted? would you call that murder or self-defence?

    what I see in this thread is mostly just talks about "is she really evil, is she really crazy" This is where I have to put my foot down regardless of religion, culture and ethnics and say. Stop indulging your self-righteous, afraid to get your hands dirty mentality and start realising that nearly all of you's are simply not worrying or caring about the fact she just a young girl forced into stressful and and miserable situation. this whole thread just stinks of ignorance, apathy, sexism and racism because I highly doubt that would anyone here see this as controversial. just another topic to waste 6+ hour ranting and debating about something that is crystal clear those to see thing outside that box.

    So if people here just to read the thing's that they type here instead of figuring out what is the right attitude to see this as. then I just give up

    If it would have been just him I wouldn't. I would if she killed 3-4 more people in the act of trying to kill him.

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by aratra View Post
    and you don't understand anything i posted. Just because their culture doesn't acknowledge a woman being forced to have sex as being rape, doesn't mean she isn't being raped.
    but she wasnt forced to have sex for god's sake.

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    You are severely mixing up your cultures, buddy. In Ghana for example the vast majority of marriages are arranged marriages the difference there is a its usually between a group of people that know each other. A grandfather can outright reject someone's marriage if they do not agree to the terms of the items being received by the marriage. Stating a fact of how things are is not the same as agreeing with it.
    Arranged marriage =/= Forced marriage.

  17. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Arranged marriage =/= Forced marriage.

    How are they different? In both cases it's the family deciding not the child.

  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    To put things in perspective - arranged marriages are worldwide the standard compared to the "free marriage" we nowadays have in western countries.
    At least the Chinese, Japanese, Indians, whole Africa have arranged marriages. That's more than half of the world population already.
    Ok but this was not an arranged marriage. She was bought recently, not promised 14 years ago.
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by vipers View Post
    there is no innocents if they aprove marriage like that
    Off with their heads!

    God forbid they don't respect tradition as old as the pyramids, kill them all!

  20. #1020
    Whether it's right or wrong will differ between each individual person; but I personally don't feel like murder is ever justified. The situation for the young girl was grim and there were few alternatives available if she wanted to free herself from the marriage, she would have no doubt suffered a great deal regardless of whatever path she took with this problem, it's just sad that stuff like this has to happen. There really was no way out of this without someone being at the very least, mentally scarred for life.

    I'm not sure what my thoughts are on it, I'm happy that she freed herself and that she may have a greatly different future from this point (who knows if it will be better or worse though? As stated before in the thread, in her country she may not really have any ground for her actions), but a number of people still died so... Yeah. Idk. I'm not someone who is able to give a worthy opinion on this topic tbh.
    Last edited by Zypherz; 2014-04-11 at 06:18 PM.

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