Why did it take them 10 years to see that PvP gear is unfair?

[Deleted]

I distinctly remember myself and others arguing since at least late TBC that giving PvP gear overgearing to some people ruins gameplay. The reasoning is that it's not PvE that a group of people progressed against A.I. mobs, but it's actually real live people in front of you in PvP. It comes to reason their skill should be King, it should the predominant factor of what's going on, not their gear, i.e. how long they've been grinding.

So why did it take them so long to make that change? Were they wrong before? Did they keep it as something to incite users for the hype of a new expansion?

I doubt that they were simply wrong. Then again it's hard to know the full reasoning. They might as well be wrong now too about this, we all do mistakes.

[Philomene]

Because 80% of the people doing PvP in this game are doing it to get gear, not for the pleasure of fighting for their faction or against each other.

[rda]

I am all for gear playing less of a role, it isn't clear whether it will be the case in Legion at all - right now it looks like PVP'ers will have to raid, that's much worse than what we have now.

[barial]

Because 80% of the people doing PvP in this game are doing it to get gear, not for the pleasure of fighting for their faction or against each other.

What's the point of the gear then

[Reinaerd]

What's the point of the gear then

Epeen, visual flash for afk'ing in a capital city. basic fucktard stuff.

[Deleted]

I'm all for PVP gear being removed, or rather making PVP about who plays better not about who has the bigger e-sword.

[unbound]

Why? Blizz thought it would be a great idea to have a sense of progression for PvP players. Since there isn't harder PvP content to get to, they decided gear was the best (i.e. easiest) route to go.

Why did it take them so long to understand that they were wrong? In case you haven't noticed, Blizz is very stubborn about their decisions and, like a little kid, almost never admit that they are wrong. Like a teenager, they think they know better than everyone else and blame everyone but themselves for the problems. And like the corporation they are, they look for easy (i.e. cheap) solutions. However, they are having to face some harsh realities at this point (fleshed out a bit more in the next paragraph).

What changed? Despite Blizz PR claiming this is just a normal cycle with the loss of subs, the reality is that the loss of subs is far higher than even their worst projections and is even lower than the trend prior to WoD release indicated (should have been over 6 million subs following the prior trend). Despite their public denials (e.g. Lore's hilarious tweet basically blaming customers for actually believing Blizz PR), the sub losses speak for themselves, and they have no choice but to start fixing things that have long been broken and covered up by rationalization.

The real question is how deep in crisis Blizz management thinks they are. If they continue their rationalizations (or worse, actually believe the BS Lore spewed out), then Legion will be another low effort expansion (perhaps just a bit more than the effort they put into WoD). If they understand that WoD represented a breaking point to far too many players, they may actually do right by their customers.

[Vastoorode]

I don't have a big problem with PvP gear even if it's annoying to face a geared player when I have no gear at all, it's so Quick to gear up nowdays anyway.
BUT I do like the new system they will have in Legion and thats because I Think with the templates Blizzard will have a very good way to tune classes without it effecting PvE at all and if they do that at a regular basis like once a week this system can be super good.

[Darometh]

I'm all for PVP gear being removed, or rather making PVP about who plays better not about who has the bigger e-sword.

More like, without PvP Gear, it's even more about which class you play. Always been the case that class>skill. But without gear, they can hopefully focus more on class balance. Disabling racials would be another great step, but i don't think that will ever happen

[Itisamuh]

Because 80% of the people doing PvP in this game are doing it to get gear, not for the pleasure of fighting for their faction or against each other.

This is nonsense. Blizzard may believe it, but I guarantee most PvPers are getting gear to PvP, not the other way around.

In response to the OP, I still have my doubts as to whether they have figured it out. This seems like PvE heroes will have the edge.

[ro9ue]

As soon as they added "PVP gear" with resilience in BC I knew it was a bad idea. Resilience really fucked up PVP.

In Vanilla it was actually really cool. You could either PVP or PVE, and nearly an equal investment into each would reward you with gear that was on par with each other. That's back when I could raid AQ, get a bow, and take it into PVP. I didn't have a 40hr wall to climb to get PVP gear just to participate. Same thing on the PVP spectrum. I was a High Warlord rogue I could walk into my guild's AQ run and jump right the hell in and do stuff.

It was that cross accessibility that made PVP and PVE more active across players. It wasn't like okay I need 2 sets of gear for 2 different things. I jsut had one set of gear, hell it could be a mix and match. I remember using a lot of the general's gear + AQ daggers when I was in Naxx 40.

It seemed like when they implemented resilience, they effectively put up a massive wall between both PVE and PVP. No longer could you just do both as you pleased and gear up equally through both, you had to invest into 2 sets of gear.

LOTS of people complained about resilience. LOTS. I probably sent feedback about it every time I cancelled my sub when they started asking for feedback at the cancellation screen.

And guess what, year after year, they just slowly took a brick down from the wall and decreased the power difference to finally now we are at a point where we are back to having no resilience.

- - - Updated - - -

This is nonsense. Blizzard may believe it, but I guarantee most PvPers are getting gear to PvP, not the other way around.

In response to the OP, I still have my doubts as to whether they have figured it out. This seems like PvE heroes will have the edge.

100000% true. People only want the gear because its the only way they can have an enjoyable PVP experience and be on an equal power level.

[apepi]

Honestly? I don't think it is unfair. I did not go into raids thinking I should be able to dps as good as normal raiders who worked their ass off to get their gear. They honestly should just give the same gear to everyone no matter pvp or pve. Though I think that nay piss off the raiders. But that is balance, an equally geared pver would be equally geared at pvping, same as a pvper going to pve.

[mickybrighteyes]

the original problem was how gear was exclusively earned from raiding and dungeons....

so to fix that they put in pvp gear that was blatantly made to counter gear found in non-pvp sources. personally I find gear with straight up take less dmg and deal more damage as a feature to be pretty damn lame and made later entry into teh medium straight up silly with how long it would take to get the crap set (who really wants to play crappy for a few days just to get the crap loot so you can then play poorly, cause gear still sucks... but have a slightly better chance of not sucking?)

They coulnd't just make the pve and pvp gear rival one another cause... pvp would basically be teh primary way to gear up cause it's better than RNG loot pinatas. So they kept running with resilience/pvp power/etc


I personally wished they'd have found a way to simply restrict raid loot from instanced pvp instead of spending so much effort on pvp stats =/

[Philomene]

This is nonsense. Blizzard may believe it, but I guarantee most PvPers are getting gear to PvP, not the other way around.

In response to the OP, I still have my doubts as to whether they have figured it out. This seems like PvE heroes will have the edge.

This is because they are real PvPers that care about arena/RBGs or PvP in itself.

They already stated that they wanted to create some kind of endless gearing process through RNG and BiS not being buyable to give an incentive for people to play again and again through the season, because many players (not necessarily PvPers) just stop doing PvP when they are fully geared.

If they decided to put a cap on conquest incoming per week it's also to make the process of gearing take longer and longer, and not to avoid people to rush it in a couple of hours - because they already do this when they have the catch-up system ; it's only to make people queue each week to get gear.

[Littleraven]

Because 80% of the people doing PvP in this game are doing it to get gear, not for the pleasure of fighting for their faction or against each other.

I think the point is they should have never even let gear be a thing for PvP. It would have saved a ton of headaches in the long run. I PvP for fun. Not the gear. I could give fuck all about how geared I am. It is just a barrier to get to the point where I don't get totally demolished.

That said it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Removing PvP gear after this long is going to for damn sure have consequences. It will take time to get used to. Hopefully the system works out because I like the idea of it but we have to see how it is executed.

[Sinyc]

Not everyone (read: A very small percentage) PvPs to try to get Glad or any Arena title for that matter.

Most do it to gear up. Again not many are that concerned with Ally vs Horde either.

[Philomene]

I think the point is they should have never even let gear be a thing for PvP. It would have saved a ton of headaches in the long run. I PvP for fun. Not the gear. I could give fuck all about how geared I am. It is just a barrier to get to the point where I don't get totally demolished.

That said it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Removing PvP gear after this long is going to for damn sure have consequences. It will take time to get used to. Hopefully the system works out because I like the idea of it but we have to see how it is executed.

I'm quite happy with gear going away too and that talent system sounds interesting. I eager to see how it works. I really look forward the prestige ranks that look like Vanilla ranks.

[Deleted]

Not everyone (read: A very small percentage) PvPs to try to get Glad or any Arena title for that matter.

Most do it to gear up. Again not many are that concerned with Ally vs Horde either.

They should really try work on getting the ally vs horde spirit back.

[Livevil]

Not everyone (read: A very small percentage) PvPs to try to get Glad or any Arena title for that matter.

Most do it to gear up. Again not many are that concerned with Ally vs Horde either.

That's completely false. Most of pvp playerbase would prefer jumping instantly into the action without having to endure all the gearing process. Why? Because they get gear in order to pvp and not the other way around.

I get gear so i can pvp without being at a horrible disadvantage. If i just wanted to just gear up i'd farm apexis and empowered baleful.

[Mazaxist]

I think PVP gear is great idea. I like to see how my character is getting stronger. Even though it may be unfair for some time, but at least there is a reason to log in and play some random BGs. - for ARENA or RBG i guess it could be unfair, but then again people who do arena / RBG at high level gear up so fast.... also with WOD pvp gearing has never been so easy.