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  1. #1

    Rogues & Shamans... are you satisfied?

    I made a poll prior to all the Legion info. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...this-expansion

    A little over half of the participants said either Rogue or Shaman need the most love this next expansion. So... what do you all think?

    Considering those were my main choices as well, I have to say Rogue looks REALLY impressive. I'm surprised they actually are making drastic changes, but I'm also happy they left the good things about the Rogue alone (Assassination).

    Shaman seems good. But I was expecting a bit more. Enhancement seems like it might be really interesting with Thralls' HotS ult, but I'm not sure if I can judge how this will play without actually getting my hands into it.

    How are you Rogues and Shamans out there feeling about your classes in Legion? Me personally, pretty damn good.
    Last edited by ro9ue; 2015-11-14 at 03:51 PM.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    I'm a rogue. I'm honestly not too impressed. The changes are not as drastic as they first appear.

    Before I complain I'm waiting for the full picture, not just the preview + questions.

    My current concerns (bear in mind these will change as we're given access to all the information, not just the preview):
    - Assassination gets a 'new' bleed (we already had garrote), but is otherwise relatively unchanged. Mutilate does not seem to proc blindside anymore. Dispatch being removed possibly?
    - Combat loses revealing strike and gains a pistol builder + finisher. In terms of your single-target dps rotation, I highly doubt the pistol abilities are actually worth it. Undoubtedly the pistol shot's only use in PvE will be on a proc - speaking of which, combat now gets blindside instead of assassination. Everything else is repainted. Saber slash is sinister strike. Run through is eviscerate. Mastery + offhand strikes unchanged.
    - Subtlety has lost almost all of its depth. No more cooldown management, no more find weakness management, haemorrhage and rupture are gone, multistrike is gone so sinister calling will be removed / changed. Now, what is it? Because atm it kind of looks like you just keep the new shadow dot up, then spam backstab + eviscerate all day. Where is the fun in that? It's even simpler than combat.

    I hope my concerns are unfounded and they reveal more plans in future. For now? I am disappointed.

    Edit: For context, this is what I was hoping for / expecting from the changes:

    Assassination: More poison-based, not bleed-based. Thrown poison vials, gas bombs, heavily dot-focused. Gameplay revolving around stacking dots on your target and buffing your dots with your 'filler' rotations (envenom for example).

    Combat/Outlaw: I was hoping for more dirty fighting techniques. Smashing bottles over people's heads, the pistol shot is welcome and I guess I don't mind saber slash / run through. I don't like it that we keep Slice and Dice and was hoping that would be made baseline. I felt like this spec should have been focused around fast, cheap strikes and bar-room brawl / pirate / stealing type attacks.

    Subtlety: Shadow-magic based ninja type. I like the change to shadow dance to this effect, however I feel more cooldowns should be added and this should be the spec that needs organisation and proper planning. I was hoping for a focus on thrown weapons, shadowstepping and quick strikes with shadow-infused weapons. As it stands, it just seems to be a simplified version of assassination.
    Last edited by mmoc64a56cce3c; 2015-11-13 at 09:11 PM.

  3. #3
    As a rogue, not impressed. Only changes was shadow dance and pistol shot.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Murderdoll's Avatar
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    Enhance here.

    Im really on the fence. Im quite frightened that this might lead to us losing our unique playstyle.

    Excited that finally something is being done, for better or worse.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    Enhance here.

    Im really on the fence. Im quite frightened that this might lead to us losing our unique playstyle.
    What exactly is that "unique playstyle", though? The bulk of the spec is just a handful of abilities you use on cooldown. Is that really a playstyle worth preserving?

  6. #6
    So far I'm very concerned for enhancement. While I understand talents augment our gameplay, legion seems to have mechanically made so many specs the same that the "flavour" is only in the colour of your spells.

    @Anoregon maelstrom management was unique due to it's volatile nature and how fast you had to react for optimal dps. This had slowly been diminishing, but at its base this is what enhancement play was about since wrath.

    They've removed that in favour of a rage/focus bar that practically plays itself (before talents)
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  7. #7
    Elemental is back where it was in MoP.
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    Elemental is back where it was in MoP.
    I don't think we will have the mobility nor the insane healing cds of healing tide and ancestral guidance that we had in mop.

  9. #9
    The Insane General Zanjin's Avatar
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    shaman: hell no

    rogues: yes
    #tracerisawesomelycute
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ght=shada%27in
    Mods are bias

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Murderdoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anoregon View Post
    What exactly is that "unique playstyle", though? The bulk of the spec is just a handful of abilities you use on cooldown. Is that really a playstyle worth preserving?
    The GCD capped fast paced style of the spec is something that a lot of people fell in love with many years ago and it was something that a lot of classes didnt have. Even today its unique in that it has so many abilities and is such a quick spec to play, its exciting because youre always doing something and youre always forced to think many gcds ahead.

    While it still retains that fast paced style today, it is a bit of a jumbled mess at times and could do with some work, im concerned that (depending on numbers and how quickly its generated) this resource system may slow the spec down.

    Personally, I feel the overbloated cooldown list for Shaman as a whole is something that really needs to be addressed much sooner than its priority que.
    Last edited by Murderdoll; 2015-11-13 at 09:48 PM.

  11. #11
    As a Shaman player I'm satisfied.

    Totem system has been revamped.

    The outdated Shock system has been revamped.

    Elemental and Enhance have long needed overhauls.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    The GCD capped fast paced style of the spec is something that a lot of people fell in love with many years ago and it was something that a lot of classes didnt have. Even today its unique in that it has so many abilities and is such a quick spec to play, its exciting because youre always doing something and youre always forced to think many gcds ahead.
    Its been like this since... ever but most accentuated during wotlk when we got Maelstrom.

    edit: on same boat as Murderdoll.

  13. #13
    As a shaman, I'm satisfied with some of the changes. Love that they got rid of Searing Totem. The Maelstrom resource is something I will have to wait and see. The comparisons to Warrior worry me, because I am not a fan of their play style at all.

  14. #14
    As an Elemental Shaman I'm underwhelmed but still waiting on talent previews to render a full decision.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Nyoken's Avatar
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    Shamans didn't get any changes... Elemental and Resto are still gonna be the same as they've always been...same rotation...same spells... there is literally nothing new for Ele shamans. Some of these changes they are doing now, other classes would have received 3 expansions ago, we are getting them.... NEXT expansion. One thing I always liked about my Ele shaman is the burst I use to have on it, that unreliable, you don't know when it's gonna come kind-of-burst. But we don't have that anymore. Don't have mobility anymore...dont have good cooldowns anymore to survive... was nerfed to hell in Mop...worst target switching class there is...self healing? nerfed in mop, non existent anymore compared to other classes. But we do on the other hand have the best fucking cleave/aoe dmg there is, if mobs are clumped up we're gonna top the meters by far.

    Maelstrom = Lightning Shield atm, works exactly the same way... cast spells... charge it up... and use it on a spell. They added this because... why? They literally renamed lightning shield here.....

    Totems Like really?! We get this next expansion?? Totems now have the same health as our character? NEXT EXPANSION?! Isn't this kinda obvious? Totems atm have 5 hp, meaning you can auto-attack them in PVP and they die. And our totems are very crucial abilities to us and our allies....it's like...imagine if Dispersion for Shadow priests was dispellable....THATS what this is for us, and have been since vanilla. Any pvper with a brain is gonna turn around and kill that totem in a sec, rendering us completely useless, if I just used a Spirit Link Totem, which is like one of the strongest raid cooldowns in the game to try to save like 5-6 people in a BG who are about to die...the sec I put it down someone auto-attacks it and it wipes the whole group....yea add it in so dispersion is dispellable ...and see what the priests are gonna say about that... or any other MAJOR ability for any other class.

    Totems of the same nature type can now be summoned together, allowing you to have Healing Stream Totem and Healing Tide Totem up at the same time. We already have a talent for this, and im pretty damn sure as the talent states ingame that it does NOT work for fire totems.

    Elementals are no longer tied to totems, but are guardians that follow and assist you. This isn't changing anything. Elementals already follow you around and guard you. And as they have a 1 min duration they aren't gonna follow you around the world, so when you use this, you use it cleverly. So if you for some reason have to move around you have totemic projection which is a nice talent for this. So again... why do this? If Elementals lasted for 10 mins or something... sure this would've been great!

    In addition, totems that need to be placed at a specific location will be directly placed using a targeting reticle. = Totemic Projection. We have a talent for this.....that every decent Shaman is using already......

    Additionally, to provide a glimpse at how some talents may build upon this, here’s one example of an Elemental-specific talent:
    Maelstrom Totem
    40 yd range, Instant, 30 sec cooldown
    Summons a Maelstrom Totem near the target for 15 sec that repeatedly attacks an enemy within 30 yards for moderate Nature damage. Every time the Maelstrom Totem attacks, it will generate 5 Maelstrom for you.
    SO we are removing searing totem..... and we are adding searing totem again?... But this time we are renaming it, and it's now useful! Awesome thanks for the change, really refreshing.

    Mastery: Elemental Overload
    Grants a 40% (with Mastery from typical gear) chance for Elemental Overload to occur. Elemental Overload causes a Lightning Bolt, Chain lightning, or Lava Burst spell you cast to trigger a second, similar spell on the same target that causes 75% of normal damage and Maelstrom generation, and no threat.
    This is our old mastery, that we had before... this is almost like Multistrike right now that every other class copied from us...so yea feels great having something old back again...so awesome. I was really happy when they added our current mastery for Elemental, those earth spikes that comes up out of the ground... sure it sucks.... but it was something new and exciting! But no...remove that please, instead of increasing its dmg or doing something else with it....

    When they said Shamans are getting some love, and that they were gonna change stuff and it's gonna be different, fun and unique... I wasn't expecting no changes at all...looking at other classes I thought ... this is it! Things are gonna change ... but nope...... You know that MoP was the first expansion we actually received our first defensive cooldown............?


    The day I die I want the shaman class developers to lower me into my grave so they can let me down one last time.......

  16. #16
    I am, for now, cautiously optimistic about rogues. Once beta builds start coming out and we start to see the whole picture, see what our full ability list is and what talents we have etc, then I'll form a more solid opinion.

  17. #17
    Epic! Masqerader's Avatar
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    From what I got from Blizzcon/Preview was I will be playing Sub for the first time since Cata

  18. #18
    Some improvements, but the proof will be in the execution.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  19. #19
    I don't know yet, guess i'll have to wait and see.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyoken View Post
    Shamans didn't get any changes... Elemental and Resto are still gonna be the same as they've always been...same rotation...same spells... there is literally nothing new for Ele shamans. Some of these changes they are doing now, other classes would have received 3 expansions ago, we are getting them.... NEXT expansion. One thing I always liked about my Ele shaman is the burst I use to have on it, that unreliable, you don't know when it's gonna come kind-of-burst. But we don't have that anymore. Don't have mobility anymore...dont have good cooldowns anymore to survive... was nerfed to hell in Mop...worst target switching class there is...self healing? nerfed in mop, non existent anymore compared to other classes. But we do on the other hand have the best fucking cleave/aoe dmg there is, if mobs are clumped up we're gonna top the meters by far.

    Maelstrom = Lightning Shield atm, works exactly the same way... cast spells... charge it up... and use it on a spell. They added this because... why? They literally renamed lightning shield here.....

    Totems Like really?! We get this next expansion?? Totems now have the same health as our character? NEXT EXPANSION?! Isn't this kinda obvious? Totems atm have 5 hp, meaning you can auto-attack them in PVP and they die. And our totems are very crucial abilities to us and our allies....it's like...imagine if Dispersion for Shadow priests was dispellable....THATS what this is for us, and have been since vanilla. Any pvper with a brain is gonna turn around and kill that totem in a sec, rendering us completely useless, if I just used a Spirit Link Totem, which is like one of the strongest raid cooldowns in the game to try to save like 5-6 people in a BG who are about to die...the sec I put it down someone auto-attacks it and it wipes the whole group....yea add it in so dispersion is dispellable ...and see what the priests are gonna say about that... or any other MAJOR ability for any other class.

    Totems of the same nature type can now be summoned together, allowing you to have Healing Stream Totem and Healing Tide Totem up at the same time. We already have a talent for this, and im pretty damn sure as the talent states ingame that it does NOT work for fire totems.

    Elementals are no longer tied to totems, but are guardians that follow and assist you. This isn't changing anything. Elementals already follow you around and guard you. And as they have a 1 min duration they aren't gonna follow you around the world, so when you use this, you use it cleverly. So if you for some reason have to move around you have totemic projection which is a nice talent for this. So again... why do this? If Elementals lasted for 10 mins or something... sure this would've been great!

    In addition, totems that need to be placed at a specific location will be directly placed using a targeting reticle. = Totemic Projection. We have a talent for this.....that every decent Shaman is using already......

    Additionally, to provide a glimpse at how some talents may build upon this, here’s one example of an Elemental-specific talent:
    Maelstrom Totem
    40 yd range, Instant, 30 sec cooldown
    Summons a Maelstrom Totem near the target for 15 sec that repeatedly attacks an enemy within 30 yards for moderate Nature damage. Every time the Maelstrom Totem attacks, it will generate 5 Maelstrom for you.
    SO we are removing searing totem..... and we are adding searing totem again?... But this time we are renaming it, and it's now useful! Awesome thanks for the change, really refreshing.

    Mastery: Elemental Overload
    Grants a 40% (with Mastery from typical gear) chance for Elemental Overload to occur. Elemental Overload causes a Lightning Bolt, Chain lightning, or Lava Burst spell you cast to trigger a second, similar spell on the same target that causes 75% of normal damage and Maelstrom generation, and no threat.
    This is our old mastery, that we had before... this is almost like Multistrike right now that every other class copied from us...so yea feels great having something old back again...so awesome. I was really happy when they added our current mastery for Elemental, those earth spikes that comes up out of the ground... sure it sucks.... but it was something new and exciting! But no...remove that please, instead of increasing its dmg or doing something else with it....

    When they said Shamans are getting some love, and that they were gonna change stuff and it's gonna be different, fun and unique... I wasn't expecting no changes at all...looking at other classes I thought ... this is it! Things are gonna change ... but nope...... You know that MoP was the first expansion we actually received our first defensive cooldown............?


    The day I die I want the shaman class developers to lower me into my grave so they can let me down one last time.......
    Maybe you should just roll a Demon Hunter and get it over with?

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