[Megathread] Amazon's New World MMO

[Beastiel]

No...because the initial game had Native peoples as baddies in early versions and while some employees flagged this, management was ignorant for a while until folks started calling it out. They hired experts to advise to make sure they weren't falling into racist tropes unintentionally, that's a good thing.

That's a good thing? says who? when did society collectively morph into those early 2000's suburban housewives that believe evil things in video games encourage evil things in real life?

this game had a chance to depict something genuinely challenging and interesting

[Proskill]

Now it's just starting to look fabricated.

There's a guy just like you on the star citizen thread and nobody takes him seriously. If you like the game, step back a little and be a little more rational about it or face the same fate.

one of them is even here xddd

[rhorle]

this game had a chance to depict something genuinely challenging and interesting

Native people is challenging and interesting? Lol. How does challenge come from the model of the NPC? How is one model more interesting then another?

[xpsync]

...Because I enjoy the game. Because folks who pretend "their game" is the second coming of christ and that it's perfect and that anyone who dares not like it is clearly wrong and all other MMO's are awful and this will be the shining city on the hill blah blah blah do more harm to the games than even those who are aggressively hating on it. This has been a pattern since the first round of "Me too!" MMO's after WoW, and it continues today.

Sure, the MMO release calendar ain't exactly popping, but we're both still getting some decent ones (expansions for existing ones, PSO2NG earlier this year, Bless re-release earlier this year, Elyon later, plenty of games in development both crowdfunded and from AAA publishers/developers), but that doesn't mean that just because a big budget game released and is pretty solid that it's going to be the best thing since sliced bread. Take it as it goes and see how things continue to unfold. Right now it's doing great and that's rad, great job on Amazon, but a successful launch is just the first in a long list of hurdles for them to clear.

Yeah i get it, i mean every day i just fall more in love with it, which is surprising, normally i'm finding much i don't like by now, instead i'm finding more and more that i love.

Perfect???? HELL NO!!! But the pro's far outweigh the cons.

I mean i bugged out last night with the dead no respawn, and it hit me even more how hooked i am on this game, and thought about activating the second slot, but persisted on trying to get my main back in game also made me realize how attached i am to my character.

I mean go through my posts, the excitement level increases every day, i knew in my gut first hour this was all that, but from years of let downs i tried to not let happen or let myself get that way, but even last night combat is starting to click and am like omg this game is so f'ing good.

I kinda thought it was hack in slash, but nope skill required, or not, as due to no kindergarten level scaling you could out level and come back, or git gud, which i am, i was thrilled af last night when it all started to come together and kicking multiple higher level npc's ass, pvp not so much yet, i mean i won a couple duels but usually getting my ass handed to me there most of the time (for now), but pvp in team, oh hell yeah, omg so fun.

Well it's not much of stretch to understand why this forum is going to die, and no sub forum will ever be created, no reason bothering anymore, so, peace out all, pleasure to meet you all, been fun, and it's a shame so many don't know the meaning of that word anymore.

[rhorle]

Pretty sure they meant narratively speaking, not that the fights would somehow be more challenging.

But how does the narrative change because it is native people versus "corruption of everything"? Narratives are built on the story told. The presence of natives doesn't magically impart something to that story that can't exist with anything else.

[rhorle]

It's pretty much always best to avoid actual history altogether when creating something like this. If they had just said, "Oh no, you crashed on a new planet and there are ALIENS, look out!" no one would have bat an eye.

So it is better to do what they did, by avoiding history, but it is supposed to be a more interesting (and challenging) story if they kept it in? It is for all intents and purposes a new planet. Do you really think a lost continent with magical liquid that keeps people immortal is based on real life history?

[Edge-]

Pretty sure they meant narratively speaking, not that the fights would somehow be more challenging.

There was no "narrative" to really go along with it, they were just enemies. It wasn't going to be the MMO version of Papers, Please.

In unrelated news, apparently the NW Insta got taken over and folks were posting some nonsense, heh. It's private now and I guess they're trying to clean it up - https://twitter.com/playnewworld/sta...71346272976904

[rhorle]

If it really is "basically a new planet" and not based on real life at all, then why so much angst from people over "colonializing the Americas" and imagery of people that might be confused with natives?

So if it was a new planet but they kept the colonial era theme with indigenous people as the threat it wouldn't be the same imagery? And "colonizing america"? You are fooling yourself if you can't see the link. How is it condescending to say that it isn't the real world when you were implying that makes the difference? You are the one that claims if it was set on a different planet it would 100% be okay.

But it isn't unusual to deflect and insult when you have no argument.

[rhorle]

And yes, if you made a game about crash landing on another planet and aliens were there and you fight them to build a mars colony or something, of course no one would care. It's not the act of killing things, or building a colony that people objected to, we have a trillion games about killing things. It was the specific imagery of it being the Americas that made people upset.

Specific imagery. Duh. Specific imagery set on a different planet with different people would not be seen as a problem. Again duh. What are you even arguing here? Of course if they change the entire setting and story it wouldn't be a problem. That is the point. They picked imagery and setting that created problem because of the similarity to real world issues.

How are you confused on that? Why is it even a question that if you change stuff it becomes acceptable. You know like how they changed the story of their game and it is now acceptable. They did what you said they should do but somehow are upset that they did that? Lol.

[Proskill]

tfw 2 servers i have characters on are both still under maintenance. JUST

[rhorle]

Again, I don't even understand what you're arguing at this point. It feels like you're just arguing with me for the sake of it, or moving your position just to be argumentative. Especially how you're questioning things and then coming back with these condescending, "Duh." comments when I discuss or elaborate on what you asked.

You started this discussion. You argued just for the sake of it. I questioned how a story of "colonizers attacking natives" is challenging and interesting. You are the one that went off on the tangent of no one would have a problem if they changed the story.

Duh is a perfect answer to that and not condescending. It is common sense that if they change the story and remove the problem parts it would be acceptable. You didn't discuss or elaborate on what I asked. You didn't say how it would be challenging or interesting to have it be the original story. Weird right?

[Fkiolaris]

I haven't tried the game because it does not seem interesting to me (no issue with anyone enjoying it, don't start flaming), but from what I have seen so far about this game from various sources, it seems to me that it could have been a sort-of Secret World MMO prequel. There's a million and one urban legends from that period of history, they have the 3 factions that from my understanding resemble the Templars/Illuminati/Dragons, the corrupting power that seems very similar to what's in TSW, they even have the 2 weapon/no class system that is not a million miles away from you get in Secret World Legends. If they actually decide to drastically improve on the PvE aspects to make it resemble TSW then I am diving right in, but for now it's a pass.

[Trbn]

so the game crashed 3 times in 15 minutes today

not sure about the reason but I guess that's enough for me

[rhorle]

The topic was initially about it being a way to tell a tough story (I didn't agree with the initial sentiment) but you come back with, "But it's not the real world, duh!" as if that somehow removed all the relation to the narrative elements.

Because you said if it was set on a different planet it wouldn't have been an issue. You made the argument that it being connected to "the real world" it was an issue that it was "colonizers vs natives". You keep crying that I countered your argument. Lol.

Of course if it was set on a different planet with aliens, a different story and narrative, it wouldn't be an issue. Duh. How many times do you need to repeat "If they changed the story it wouldn't be an issue"? I have never disagreed with that. Which is you know why they changed the story and it is no longer an issue.

[rhorle]

...what? What argument? Countered how?

"Do you really think a lost continent with magical liquid that keeps people immortal is based on real life history?" It is a new planet for the purposes of the story. It isn't "the real world" based narrative. People are taking issue with it even though it is on a different world. Some, like the person that spawned this tangent, think it would have been better to include Native vs Colonizers. You claim some are attacking because it removed those elements.

Which shows that people will complain even if it is a different.

[Edge-]

"Do you really think a lost continent with magical liquid that keeps people immortal is based on real life history?" It is a new planet for the purposes of the story. It isn't "the real world" based narrative. People are taking issue with it even though it is on a different world. Some, like the person that spawned this tangent, think it would have been better to include Native vs Colonizers. You claim some are attacking because it removed those elements.

Which shows that people will complain even if it is a different planet with aliens because that is what these are.

You ever see that Nutcracker movie where the rats were actually Nazi's in all but name and the Holocaust, also in all but name, was them destroying toys that they confirmed were all sentient beings and the whole thing was gross and awful and horrid and everyone hated it despite the "fantasy" setting? Yeah, just taking things directly from real life and saying, "It's just slightly different" isn't a winning strategy if you're not going to do anything other than use the setting as gross window dressing.

It's not that people complain "even it it's a different planet", but that there's simply not reason to use what is a dark, horrid time in history as a setting and saying it's all fine because the Natives your massacring are "fantasy" despite direct real-world parallels.

[Tyris Flare]

...what? What argument? Countered how?

Like I said, I'm just moving on. I'm going to assume that you've just misunderstood me in some way. Have a nice day.

The guy literally argues with people every single day on the forums in ways that make no sense to anyone else so it's best to just ignore and quarantine the nonsense

[rhorle]

It's not that people complain "even it it's a different planet", but that there's simply not reason to use what is a dark, horrid time in history as a setting and saying it's all fine because the Natives your massacring are "fantasy" despite direct real-world parallels.

Avatar was generally regarded as fine even though it is the same basic message of colonizers versus natives. Is that only because the alien natives turned out to be the "good side"? The New World wasn't just slightly different like the movie you talk about. It was a whole lot of different. Is it likely good that it changed? Sure. The 17th century was a dark horrid time even with out colonialism.

[Daedius]

Urgh... queue position 1000+ :|

[Edge-]

Avatar was generally regarded as fine even though it is the same basic message of colonizers versus natives. Is that only because the alien natives turned out to be the "good side"? The New World wasn't just slightly different like the movie you talk about. It was a whole lot of different. Is it likely good that it changed? Sure. The 17th century was a dark horrid time even with out colonialism.

I see this is going to get off topic, but needless to say that Avatar was well regarded for the spectacle and technology on display, not so much for basically being the big-budget version of Pocahontas thinking it was really clever.