Yes, Let’s Rethink Free Speech

[chooi]

Limiting free speech and promoting censorship of any kind is pure fuckin' madness. That's how you build totalitarian dictatorships. Orwell's turning in his grave right now...

[OrcsRLame]

Actually trigger warnings are to help people avoid things that may trigger PTSD or some other form of mental illness, although there has been for.many years content warnings on television ("the following program contains scenes some viewers may find disturbing.")

What's always puzzles me is why some people seem to get so offended or outraged by these sorts of warnings, I figure part of having greater freedoms in what can be broadcast/published should include some sort of responsibility towards people who maynfind the content objectionable for whatever reason. Besides that, if you're not affected by the warnings then why do you care?

This is just what I've observed so take this with a grain of salt.

It's a matter of framing. It's not what is being said but how it's said. As you said, trigger warnings have existed forever in the form of content warnings. The kind of people that made trigger warnings a well known term within the current culture are usually, (or at least, this is the perception) the same sorts of people that say that the wage gap is a problem, and Republicans are racist, misogyny and racism are rampant on college campuses, etc, etc.

More or less, it's a tribalistic urge to deny the ideology of "the enemy" so strongly that even if the enemy isn't wrong about everything you still need to denounce them in totality. Pretty much everyone is vulnerable to this kind of epistemological fallacy. The "anti-SJWs" do it with trigger warnings. The left has been doing it a fair bit with Trump lately. Just think about Trump's statements about Charlottesville. Specifically, think about them in a vacuum, devoid of context. He condemned, in the strongest possible terms, (his words, not mine) violence and bigotry on many sides. He also said that both sides had good and bad people but that everyone needs to learn to at least tolerate each other but preferably learn to love each other. Trump was lambasted for this speech, for not being radical enough.

It was a positively Gandhi-esque sentiment. It's not the sentiment that matters to most people though, educated or uneducated. It's all about the framing and the context.

I fall victim to this reasoning error as well. I try to catch myself when I do though and I try not to make the same mistake twice.

[hellhamster]

The Orwelian totalitarian dystopia is coming closer and closer. Once we abolish free speech and implement censorship, let's create class strata based on privilege level and send everyone to the gulag if they score higher than a 60%. All of course who disagree receive a - 100% penalty. Stalin would be proud, comrades.

[Aeula]

Would you prefer it if we allowed hate-preaching Imams to recruit for Isis whilst publishing videos of people being murdered?

They already do that so... sure? It'd help weed out those who are easily radicalised.

[rogueMatthias]

Great idea.

Who gets to decide what is or isn't "hateful"?

Any criticism of BLM or Islam will get you labelled a racist/islamophobic by a lot of people these days. What if I said that the whole premise of BLM - that there's an epidemic of racially driven police shootings - is PROVENLY FALSE and bullshit. IS that ok? It's true, sure, but only in the "factual" way, not the "truth" way. A lot of people consider it racist to even imply this.

Shall we just stick to whatever people might feel offended by? Also, does this mean that if things aren't banned then they're ok to say? Also, what if people are neo-nazis but they aren't saying anything specifically racist. Can we still arrest them for their general neo-naziness?

[Deleted]

Because shouting fire in a movie theater isn't a political issue. What the writer wants is political ideologies to be able to be able to be censored, which is great and all when they are censoring ideas you are against, but horrible when they start censoring your ideas.

Being pro-genocide is a political issue?

[Dhrizzle]

This is just what I've observed so take this with a grain of salt.

It's a matter of framing. It's not what is being said but how it's said. As you said, trigger warnings have existed forever in the form of content warnings. The kind of people that made trigger warnings a well known term within the current culture are usually, (or at least, this is the perception) the same sorts of people that say that the wage gap is a problem, and Republicans are racist, misogyny and racism are rampant on college campuses, etc, etc.

More or less, it's a tribalistic urge to deny the ideology of "the enemy" so strongly that even if the enemy isn't wrong about everything you still need to denounce them in totality. Pretty much everyone is vulnerable to this kind of epistemological fallacy. The "anti-SJWs" do it with trigger warnings. The left has been doing it a fair bit with Trump lately. Just think about Trump's statements about Charlottesville. Specifically, think about them in a vacuum, devoid of context. He condemned, in the strongest possible terms, (his words, not mine) violence and bigotry on many sides. He also said that both sides had good and bad people but that everyone needs to learn to at least tolerate each other but preferably learn to love each other. Trump was lambasted for this speech, for not being radical enough.

It was a positively Gandhi-esque sentiment. It's not the sentiment that matters to most people though, educated or uneducated. It's all about the framing and the context.

I fall victim to this reasoning error as well. I try to catch myself when I do though and I try not to make the same mistake twice.

Personally I'd never heard of trigger warnings until I started poking around in the corners of the internet where "anti-SJWs" and "alt-rightists" gather. At that time they mostly seemed to be mocking the parts of the web that cared about people's mental health, particularly feminist sites concerned about rape victims. Since then the word has been robbed of most meaning (sadly, as for some people PTSD is not a laughing matter) and people on any side of social justice issues throw it around as an insult to imply their ideological opponent is over sensitive or emotionally weak about a certain topic.

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The Orwelian totalitarian dystopia is coming closer and closer. Once we abolish free speech and implement censorship, let's create class strata based on privilege level and send everyone to the gulag if they score higher than a 60%. All of course who disagree receive a - 100% penalty. Stalin would be proud, comrades.

Was Stalin that big a fan of ridiculous hyperbole and slippery-slope fallacies?

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They already do that so... sure? It'd help weed out those who are easily radicalised.

Small comfort to the victims of an attack that in the aftermath we're able to identify the (probably deceased) perpetrators.

[ItachiZaku]

This sounds a lot like them hating the haters, making themselves haters in the process, meaning they themselves should be sensored.

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It's not what is being said but how it's said.

Yep, like there's no problem with me saying "yo, y'all niggas want to do the draft at my house?" but if I said "my house? no, i don't want niggas in my house", well now I'm an asshole.

[hellhamster]

Was Stalin that big a fan of ridiculous hyperbole and slippery-slope fallacies?

I have no idea. You think I'm overreacting, but take a good hard look at this latest "abolish free speech" meme lately. It shouldn't even be a discussion, yet here we are.

[JohnBrown1917]

The Orwelian totalitarian dystopia is coming closer and closer. Once we abolish free speech and implement censorship, let's create class strata based on privilege level and send everyone to the gulag if they score higher than a 60%. All of course who disagree receive a - 100% penalty. Stalin would be proud, comrades.

Kinda funny you say its Orwelian, Because i'm 100% sure that Orwell would probably see the current US regime as moving towards totalitarian/facism.

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I have no idea. You think I'm overreacting, but take a good hard look at this latest "abolish free speech" meme lately. It shouldn't even be a discussion, yet here we are.

meme? You know memes are just jokes right? Did you use the right word?
But yes, we are seeing more calls to ban incitement, which is good, its banned in most western countries anyway, I see no problem with those who want it in the US. But its not my problem.

[Livnthedream]

Actually trigger warnings are to help people avoid things that may trigger PTSD or some other form of mental illness, although there has been for.many years content warnings on television ("the following program contains scenes some viewers may find disturbing.")

What's always puzzles me is why some people seem to get so offended or outraged by these sorts of warnings, I figure part of having greater freedoms in what can be broadcast/published should include some sort of responsibility towards people who maynfind the content objectionable for whatever reason. Besides that, if you're not affected by the warnings then why do you care?

May have something to do with so many of those demanding such things don't have PTSD. They self diagnose and then throw a raging shitfit until they get what they want. Case in point, the people that wanted rape censored from Rape Law at Harvard.

[Realitytrembles]

Free speech is not unlimited in the US. Hate speech laws are in place in many countries with free speech, this is a question of degree not principle.

The First Amendment does not need to be overturned. The courts could simply be less liberal in its interpretation.

And that shows intellectual cowardice. Being afraid of words is pathetic. Restrictions on speech (other than libel/slander or direct, credible death threats) is dangerous and morally disgusting.

[JohnBrown1917]

And that shows intellectual cowardice. Being afraid of words is pathetic. Restrictions on speech (other than libel/slander or direct, credible death threats) is dangerous and morally disgusting.

Ye, those silly jews, being afraid of nazi marches chanting 'death to jews!/gas the jews!' and them advocating for genocide.


Silly buggers!

[chewie49]

when the left gets free speech banned, then a guy like trump gets in and starts banning liberals speech; they will realize too late the mistake they made.

[JohnBrown1917]

when the left gets free speech banned, then a guy like trump gets in and starts banning liberals speech; they will realize too late the mistake they made.

I dont think the left is most worried about liberal speech....

But why do you guys all seem to think free speech is a 100% or 0% thing?

[Realitytrembles]

Ye, those silly jews, being afraid of nazi marches chanting 'death to jews!/gas the jews!' and them advocating for genocide.


Silly buggers!

Yes very silly.

Someone saying sht like that is despicable. Someone actually doing the kind of crap they talk about should be shot dead in the street.

Words.

Actions.


There's a difference. But it's probably a lost cause trying to tell that to people on the far Left.

[Ghostpanther]

And that shows intellectual cowardice. Being afraid of words is pathetic. Restrictions on speech (other than libel/slander or direct, credible death threats) is dangerous and morally disgusting.

Why I agree in spirit with your point, there are limits to free speech beyond just libel/slander or direct, credible death threats. Let a Commander in the Armed Forces make a disputing remark about the President in public. Or yourself making one about your boss. See what happens.

[Realitytrembles]

Why I agree in spirit with your point, there are limits to free speech beyond just libel/slander or direct, credible death threats. Let a Commander in the Armed Forces make a disputing remark about the President in public. Or yourself making one about your boss. See what happens.

That's more of a misconduct at work kind of thing.

[The Penguin]

Yes, Let’s Rethink Free Speech

I will not surrender it to men like you.

1:00 onward sums it up.



This is what people like me think when we hear liberals or conservatives talk about bullshit like "Lets rethink free speech". No, I don't give a fuck if I am banned for speaking my mind. This site's mods are AntiFa sympathizers save for 1-2 rarities. Thus my posts are simple point driven summations now, responding only to the most revolting threads that this shit-site allows.

[JohnBrown1917]

There's a difference. But it's probably a lost cause trying to tell that to people on the far Left.

>P-people who disagree with me are far left!!!!


lol, free speech is not even a left vs right Issue.
But if you don't mind, i'll keep my opinion that incitement to violence should not be allowed. Imagine both nazis and Islamic extremist trying to recruit members out in the open? horrible.