Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Themius]

1. Putting America first in manufactured goods and foreign policies.
2. Stronger military.
3. Respect for our flag, anthem.
4. And yes, on the economy.
5. Enforcement of our immigration laws.
6. Commitment to our Second Amendment rights.
7. Pro life.
8. Appointment for conservative Justices to the Supreme Court.

... just to name a few important ones. Of course many will disagree or have issues with any of those. That's fine too. But you asked.

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That's not what I said. You should not try to put words in people's mouth.

1. Why should America be a manufacturing country? Manufacturing work is often relatively low paid we should want our people to be in fields that used finished goods much like we generally work now.

2. America has a strong military, why does it need to be stronger? Exactly what is America waiting for?

3. The flag is a piece of cloth, the anthem is a repurposed song bar song about drinking and sex, come the fuck on.

4. His economic policies haven't helped Americans they've damaged them. The price of goods going up means the average person is now paying more for something, it is bad enough wages barely keep up (or fall behind) with inflation, add on that taxes to goods and well people are in effect having a decrease in wages.

5. What enforcement? It seems you and your kind only care about the brown people coming over the border. Do you give a flying fuck about the tens of thousands of illegal Canadians taking high paying jobs and overstaying their visas? Do you give a fuck about the 700% larger problem that are overstays?

6. I swear if Americans could marry guns as their life partner, they would.

7. "I don't care if you're raped you're going to have that baby, you poor shit, and take care of it with no help from us because I don't believe in helping babies, I only care about the fetus being born because gotta get them +1 souls for God!"

8. So holding the Supreme Court hostage, and appointment judges who do not align with the majority of the country is "good"?

Of course for your kind... tyranny by the minority who gives a fuck if it is not popular with the country, for something that is a life time appointment.

Country makes me sick... I reckon I'll be out in about three years, I get enough offers from Canadian companies.

[Draco-Onis]

He can be impeached.

No since impeachment is not about guilt if it was Clinton would have been kicked out of office.

[Themius]

He can be impeached.

Your side does not care to impeach someone who is a republican. Gone are the days of Nixon Republicans who kind of half heartedly give a shit.

Now we have the days of weak ass pathetic republican legislators who act like slaves.

"He is a race baiting xenophobic person!"

But now he kowtows, pathetic.

[Ghostpanther]

No since impeachment is not about guilt if it was Clinton would have been kicked out of office.

Clinton was guilty of getting a blow job while in office. But a lot of people did not care he did. And the Senate did not feel his actions warranted a removal. Committing a crime while President was why Nixon resigned, rather then be removed. Because the evidence was clear he did. And he knew it. You want Trump to resign or removed from office? Get some irrefutable evidence he committed a crime, which is so clear even the Republican Senate members can not deny it.

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Your side does not care to impeach someone who is a republican. Gone are the days of Nixon Republicans who kind of half heartedly give a shit.

Now we have the days of weak ass pathetic republican legislators who act like slaves.

"He is a race baiting xenophobic person!"

But now he kowtows, pathetic.

Accusations, perceived crimes being committed, is not enough on their own to remove a President.

[Themius]

Clinton was guilty of getting a blow job while in office. But a lot of people did not care he did. And the Senate did not feel his actions warranted a removal. Committing a crime while President was why Nixon resigned, rather then be removed. Because the evidence was clear he did. And he knew it. You want Trump to resign or removed from office? Get some irrefutable evidence he committed a crime, which is so clear even the Republican Senate members can not deny it.

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Accusations, perceived crimes being committed, is not enough on their own to remove a President.

Lying about having sex was enough for republicans to vote too impeach..

When Trump has been proven to have lied about things, and his people, and how close he gets to full on collusions you would think that enough.

what about the fact that he instructed his underlings to do things that would be obstruction but the only reason he never became obstruction is because his underlings disobeyed him he was sitting around demanding people obstruct justice and the only reason the report didn't find that he had done it, was that his own workers refused to listen to him.

[Shalcker]

Do you think relaxing regulations in an industry that kills a lot of people due to black lung is a smart idea? Dead people cost America, if they're dead they're not working, if they're not working they're not paying taxes.

People out of job do not pay much in taxes either.

And no it does not speed I tup faster than black lung are you serious?

"The overall number of coal workers dying of black lung disease, known medically as coal-workers' pneumoconiosis (CWP), decreased steadily from 1999 to 2016 -- a high of 409 workers in 1999 to a low of 112 in 2016."

Something is definitely improving there - even if those that do get it now have more aggressive variant which article partially attributes to higher silica content in low-grade coal (with silica being more toxic to lungs then coal).

Jobs are barely changed for coal, coal is doing more work now yes, but they're doing more work with fewer people thanks to mechanization.

They were dropping off the cliff during Obama's era though - and large part of it was policy-driven, not market- or technology-driven.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Can you prove it?

Grammatically?

[Ghostpanther]

Lying about having sex was enough for republicans to vote too impeach..

When Trump has been proven to have lied about things, and his people, and how close he gets to full on collusions you would think that enough.

what about the fact that he instructed his underlings to do things that would be obstruction but the only reason he never became obstruction is because his underlings disobeyed him he was sitting around demanding people obstruct justice and the only reason the report didn't find that he had done it, was that his own workers refused to listen to him.

It wasn't just about having sex.

[Draco-Onis]

Clinton was guilty of getting a blow job while in office. But a lot of people did not care he did. And the Senate did not feel his actions warranted a removal. Committing a crime while President was why Nixon resigned, rather then be removed. Because the evidence was clear he did. And he knew it. You want Trump to resign or removed from office? Get some irrefutable evidence he committed a crime, which is so clear even the Republican Senate members can not deny it.

Clinton lied under oath that is the crime and it is indisputable, republicans will not impeach Trump no matter what as long as he hold such strong support with the base politicians don't have morals.

[Endus]

1. Why should America be a manufacturing country? Manufacturing work is often relatively low paid we should want our people to be in fields that used finished goods much like we generally work now.

National economies change as technology improves. Those economies start out as agrarian - based on agriculture as their primary industry, providing more than 50% of the economy's revenues. Historically, that lasted pretty much right up to the start of the Industrial Revolution, when manufacturing-based economies became a thing; people left the farms to work in factories, at the same time as factory-produced machinery made farming less labor-intensive so fewer farmers were necessary to begin with.

Over time, that manufacturing-based economy shifted again towards a service-based economy, where the primary market was service provision; working as wait staff, telemarketers, store clerks, you name it. This shift occurred, in the USA, back in the '40s or '50s; it is not a recent shift.

And currently, that service-based economy is shifting towards a knowledge-based economy, where the primary industry is based on those with professional skills of some sort (whether that's academic knowledge like a professor or doctor or lawyer, or a specialized mechanic or a licensed plumber or whatever). That distinction is not yet clear, because we're still in that transition era.

The idea that we should move back to pursuing manufacturing jobs is . . . asinine. They don't pay well. There's no reason to try and purge what remains, but the shift in manufacturing has been towards automation because the jobs pay so poorly and require no mental capacity; robots are more cost-effective and do a more reliable job.

Retraining for service- and knowledge-based jobs is the only option that makes any sense at all.

[mojojojo202]

1. Putting America first in manufactured goods and foreign policies.
2. Stronger military.
3. Respect for our flag, anthem.
4. And yes, on the economy.
5. Enforcement of our immigration laws.
6. Commitment to our Second Amendment rights.
7. Pro life.
8. Appointment for conservative Justices to the Supreme Court.

... just to name a few important ones. Of course many will disagree or have issues with any of those. That's fine too. But you asked.

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That's not what I said. You should not try to put words in people's mouth.

Generously... less tha half of those are actual policies. The others, mainly 1-4 are vague statements of intent. Number 5 is a nonsense.

[Endus]

Accusations, perceived crimes being committed, is not enough on their own to remove a President.

This is where you admit your bad faith.

You acknowledge that impeachment can happen, if the President is guilty of a crime, but insist that anything but criminal conviction in a court of law is just "accusations, perceived crimes being committed", and since the sitting President cannot be charged in a criminal court, you act as if you've made a point.

You haven't. You're suggesting the President is above the law. That Trump could walk out onto the White House lawn with an AR-15, right now, and shoot into the crowd that's almost always in front of the White House, killing indiscriminately. Stop to reload, continue firing. And then walk back into the White House and get back to Presidenting. And that nothing could be done, until he loses an election and is out of office.

Because the idea that he committed mass murder is just, in your own words, an "accusation". You can't impeach him for that! Not even with footage from a dozen cameras confirming it from every angle.

It's absolutely fucking asinine.

[ati87]

"Retrain and give jobs" is more of a dream then reality too.

It doesn't have to be "realistic" to be better - it just has to have higher chance of actually working, no matter how low.

Maybe if you would offer options that actually work rather then try making them chase things you think "should" work they would respond better (and vote accordingly).

BUt it's not a higher chance, it's been proven that the coal industry is still dying out....Your inserting delusions into what every person who isn't molesting coal was predicting. Coal is a death industry.

I hope you understand that like with everything else, your just arguing from person delusions.

[Shalcker]

BUt it's not a higher chance, it's been proven that the coal industry is still dying out....Your inserting delusions into what every person who isn't molesting coal was predicting. Coal is a death industry.

I hope you understand that like with everything else, your just arguing from person delusions.

You mean dead industry?

The thing is, this death is policy-driven. Coal jobs were rising during first Obama's term as you can see in graph on previous pages.

It is only when climate-change driven policies were introduced to drive coal to extinction by speeding up closure of coal plants that jobs started dropping - and Trump reversing those policies (no matter how well-intentioned they were by Obama's administration) reversed this trend pretty much immediately.

[ati87]

It wasn't just about having sex.

Right, mind telling what those reasons where ...because it was lying about receiving a BJ.
Republicans have a unhealthy obsession and delusions with the Clintons.

[Nellise]

"The overall number of coal workers dying of black lung disease, known medically as coal-workers' pneumoconiosis (CWP), decreased steadily from 1999 to 2016 -- a high of 409 workers in 1999 to a low of 112 in 2016."

Something is definitely improving there - even if those that do get it now have more aggressive variant which article partially attributes to higher silica content in low-grade coal (with silica being more toxic to lungs then coal).

They decrease in deaths is partly attributable to the decline in employment as there were 30,000 less mining workers in 2016 (~50k) versus 1999 (~80k): "The researchers noted that the decline in the age-adjusted CWP death rate might be explained, in part, by the decline in employment in the mining industry." Funny how fewer people being able to get a disease makes the total number with that disease also decrease.

[Shalcker]

They decrease in deaths is partly attributable to the decline in employment as there were 30,000 less mining workers in 2016 (~50k) versus 1999 (~80k): "The researchers noted that the decline in the age-adjusted CWP death rate might be explained, in part, by the decline in employment in the mining industry." Funny how fewer people being able to get a disease makes the total number with that disease also decrease.

Yes, partially.

Because that's about 4x less deaths with just 1.6x less jobs.

It leaves option of many more people being miserable but not actually dying due to advances in medical technology though.

[Nellise]

You mean dead industry?

The thing is, this death is policy-driven. Coal jobs were rising during first Obama's term as you can see in graph on previous pages.

Not sure why coal is considered some hugely important job creator. The difference between the high point of employment during Obama's administration and its lowest point is 40k workers. There are 200k jobs created monthly (give or take) in the US.

[ati87]

You mean dead industry?

The thing is, this death is policy-driven. Coal jobs were rising during first Obama's term as you can see in graph on previous pages.

It is only when climate-change driven policies were introduced to drive coal to extinction by speeding up closure of coal plants that jobs started dropping - and Trump reversing those policies (no matter how well-intentioned they were by Obama's administration) reversed this trend pretty much immediately.

You mean the small increase? Enron and Lehman both had small increases when the stock fell......not sure why your arguing a small bump as proof that this where going ok.

Please stop arguing before you get sick. If policy would have made any difference than Trumps stupid policies would have done allot more.

[Shalcker]

Not sure why coal is considered some hugely important job creator. The difference between the high point of employment during Obama's administration and its lowest point is 40k workers. There are 200k jobs created monthly (give or take) in the US.

Because it is easy target for Republicans with job extinction being pretty much entirely driven by Obama's EPA policy.

Extra points for being "climate change" related - also good attack target from Republican side.