Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Captain N]

Except, you know, solar roofing (and their maintenance) is often done by same "inexperienced roofers" they note as source of fatality spikes (and i've seen articles supporting that too).

Except it isn't because some states require a special solar contracting license which isn't the same as what most roofers are doing. Your attempt at lumping all roofers in and claiming that the solar installers is more dangerous than coal mine operators (also not the same as regular miners) is dishonest.

Would you like to try again?\

Trump did some dumb shit and but lot of shit claimed about him is fake news supposed to create fake outrage for media clicks. I dont like that and I believe that this is one of such cases.

So tell us what was Fake News about Trump? I dare you to play the Russian Collusion Card.

[rda]

For anyone still saying Trump isn't racist:
https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publicatio...ants-facts.cfm

"Ethnic slurs and other verbal or physical conduct because of nationality are illegal if they are severe or pervasive and create an intimidating, hostile or offensive working environment, interfere with work performance, or negatively affect job opportunities. Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person's foreign accent or comments like, "Go back to where you came from, " whether made by supervisors or by co-workers."

The federal agency in charge of protecting people from discrimination has it as one of their examples for racist harassment.

It's right in your text. Examples of potentially unlawful conduct. Potentially. The potential is this: if "Go back to where you came from" was meant as a way of saying "Go back to X because your nationality is Y and people of nationality Y are unworthy / bla bla bla", then yes, the potential is realized. Otherwise not. It's right in the text that you provide.

Does Trump say "Go back to country X because your nationality is Y"? No. He says "Go back to country X because that place has bad government and instead of fixing it there you came to the US to try to fix the US". The argument is silly, but it is not racist.

[Shalcker]

Except it isn't because some states require a special solar contracting license which isn't the same as what most roofers are doing. Your attempt at lumping all roofers in and claiming that the solar installers is more dangerous than coal mine operators (also not the same as regular miners) is dishonest.

Would you like to try again?

It was the list of most dangerous jobs - roofers happened to be above anything involving coal. That's it.

Not every solar job is roofer anyway, so i don't see why you go with this point specifically, and i never said anything about special solar contracting license.

Fall is the fall, it kills. Solar has electricity, you can still get hit by electrocution mishandling it as well.

Your "rebuttal" is wholly unconvincing. Would you like to try again?

[Ghostpanther]

It's right in your text. Examples of potentially unlawful conduct. Potentially. The potential is this: if "Go back to where you came from" was meant as a way of saying "Go back to X because your nationality is Y and people of nationality Y are unworthy / bla bla bla", then yes, the potential is realized. Otherwise not. It's right in the text that you provide.

Does Trump say "Go back to country X because your nationality is Y"? No. He says "Go back to country X because that place has bad government and instead of fixing it there you came to the US to try to fix the US".

Those are some great points. Context in statements can be make a difference. But of course the Trump haters are going to assume the worse.

[Captain N]

It's right in your text. Examples of potentially unlawful conduct. Potentially. The potential is this: if "Go back to where you came from" was meant as a way of saying "Go back to X because your nationality is Y and people of nationality Y are unworthy / bla bla bla", then yes, the potential is realized. Otherwise not. It's right in the text that you provide.

Does Trump say "Go back to country X because your nationality is Y"? No. He says "Go back to country X because that place has bad government and instead of fixing it there you came to the US to try to fix the US".

Holy Mental Gymnastics -- Is this seriously what you're going with?

What country should these women go back to and fix? Last I checked they were all American Citizens and ironically none of those women were white even though we do have white Congresspeople that weren't born in the country. Why did Trump only go after these not-so-pasty women?

Not every solar job is roofer anyway, so i don't see why you go with this point specifically, and i never said anything about special solar contracting license.

Fall is the fall, it kills. Solar has electricity, you can still get hit by electrocution mishandling it as well.

Your "rebuttal" is wholly unconvincing. Would you like to try again?

Nah you just said Solar Roofers are more dangerous than Coal Mine Operators attempting to link all roofers together in an attempt to make it sound that Solar was more dangerous than coal.

You got caught being dishonest. You're right I said special contracting license because its what some states require to install solar panels. This is a license that not all roofers possess.

All Solar Panel Installers are Roofers -- Not all Roofers install Solar Panels.

This is your dishonest quote if you want to continue lying.

100 out of 52k is about 0.19% chance of dying every year - significant, but not extreme.

Obviously it is more complex then that (the longer the higher it gets), but solar roofing is apparently more dangerous then being mining machine operator.

[Independent voter]

The only people you can't say "go back to where you came from" are Native Americans. Right? Everyone else is an immigrant or the descendant of immigrants.

[Draco-Onis]

We haven't reached that point.

Glad we agree.

[rda]

Holy Mental Gymnastics -- Is this seriously what you're going with?

What country should these women go back to and fix? Last I checked they were all American Citizens and ironically none of those women were white even though we do have white Congresspeople that weren't born in the country. Why did Trump only go after these not-so-pasty women?

As I said, the argument is pretty silly, but it is not racist. Say that Trump made a silly point and I will agree with you.

Trump goes after everyone, women, men, animals, whoever. Your last sentence does not exist.

[Draco-Onis]

Those are some great points. Context in statements can be make a difference. But of course the Trump haters are going to assume the worse.

Whatever you tell yourself to feel good about it, it's not like this is the first time Trump has been a racist. If he came out in full KKK outfit you would rationalize it too because it's not something important to you.

[draynay]

The only people you can't say "go back to where you came from" are Native Americans. Right? Everyone else is an immigrant or the descendant of immigrants.

What the fuck is with you and spamming now? Its just repeating the same shit, you already asked this stupid question.

[PACOX]

It's his very close to nazi symbol, and Trump said they're very fine people so...

It is a swastika, he can't argue against that. The Nazis used that same mumbo jumbo, 'heritage' and <insert positive descriptors> when they adopted their take on the symbol.

Most places in Europe that had history with swastikas stopped using them way before the Nazis adopted it. The only people who used it after were associated with Nazi Germany. Meaning the swatiska in the West has been associated with the Nazis for the last 100 years - being nothing but a symbol of hate ever since. There are no modern 'innocent' uses of the swatiska and its many variations not tied to Nazis.

The one that guy has mainly been used by Russian Nazis. It also pops up in Europe as an ooohh we're got them fooled dog whistle. But since there is a historic history its hard to prove...

HOLD UP!

In modern Russia, some neo-Nazis[88][89] and also Rodnovers argue that the Russian name of the swastika is kolovrat (Russian: коловрат, literally "spinning wheel"), but there are no ethnographic sources confirming this.[87][90] In vernacular speech the swastika was called differently; for example, "breeze" – as in Christianity, the swastika represents spiritual movement, descent of the Holy Spirit, and therefore the "wind" and "spirit",[87] or ognevtsi ("little flames"), "geese", "hares" (a towel with a swastika was called as towel with "hares"), "little horses".[86][87]

The neo-Nazi Russian National Unity group's branch in Estonia is officially registered under the name "Kolovrat" and published an extremist newspaper in 2001 under the same name.[88] A criminal investigation found the paper included an array of racial epithets. One Narva resident was sentenced to 1 year in jail for distribution of Kolovrat.[91] The Kolovrat has since been used by the Rusich Battalion, a Russian militant group known for its operation during the War in Donbass.[92][additional citation(s) needed]

The alleged perpetrator of the Christchurch mosque shootings in Christchurch, New Zealand used the Kolovrat swastika on one of his dog tags alongside the Celtic Cross.[93]

https://meaww.com/new-zealand-mosque...nazi-symbolism

The kolovrat

https://www.google.com/search?q=Kolovrat

By those means the symbol found its way to the now-spreading re-enactment scene, which came to adopt it for use during its performance. Part of neopagan movement was and partially still is a bearer of nationalistic and right-wing ideologies to a point. After the fall of Soviet Union, various political and paramilitary units started to appear in Eastern Europe, who found neopagan ideology, symbolism and terminology attractive and adopted their more or less overturned form. This way, “kolovrat” became an important symbol among extremist groups. One of the most famous promoters of the symbol is Russian National Unity (see here), which explicitly avows to Nazism, but tries to bear the impression of Russian origin at the same time, through the usage of Slavic history, orthodoxy and mystic symbolism (Jackson 1999: 36; Shenfield 2001: chap. 5). Estonian branch of Russian National Unity also has the name “Kolovrat” and used to publish a same-named magazine. Symbolism based on “kolovrat” can also be seen nowadays at both fighting sides of the Eastern Ukraine conflict (especially the Rusič battalion); for more details I suggest the article by Matouš Vencálek (Vencálek 2018). To its wearer, “kolovrat” represents a symbol which provides God’s protection and strength in battle, and demoralizes the enemy, who is seen in both religious and political opponents (Jackson 1999: 36). It should be noted that the symbol is absent in Czech literature mapping extremist symbols (Mareš 2006), as compared to our neighbour Slovakia (see here). On the other hand, “kolovrat” is present in the expert opinions that were written for trials with Czech radical extremists (see here). Conservative neopagans see the usage of this symbol as a “fashion abuse”.

http://sagy.vikingove.cz/origins-of-kolovrat-symbol/

[Shalcker]

Nah you just said Solar Roofers are more dangerous than Coal Mine Operators attempting to link all roofers together in an attempt to make it sound that Solar was more dangerous than coal.

Solar overall is unquestionably safer. Solar roofing might not be - it's the roofing part, not solar part.

There is nothing controversial about it - some jobs are inherently dangerous. Both mining and roofing has plenty of precaution that, if followed, mean work generally doesn't result in fatalities. People being people sometimes take shortcuts though, and sometimes thing fail in a way people couldn't predict.

If you can show which data points to solar roofers specifically being safer then general roofers - and safer then modern coal operations in turn - i can concede this point.

[Ghostpanther]

Whatever you tell yourself to feel good about it, it's not like this is the first time Trump has been a racist. If he came out in full KKK outfit you would rationalize it too because it's not something important to you.

Us disagreeing on something, does not mean it is something I feel is not important.

[rda]

Whatever you tell yourself to feel good about it, it's not like this is the first time Trump has been a racist. If he came out in full KKK outfit you would rationalize it too because it's not something important to you.

And here we go with message #50 that does not go into specifics of the incident and just proclaims that Trump was racist, that whoever says otherwise is wrong just because, and that they would probably eat babies for breakfast. Just one guy so far tried to say something specific, props to him.

[Ghostpanther]

The only people you can't say "go back to where you came from" are Native Americans. Right? Everyone else is an immigrant or the descendant of immigrants.

Lol. That is a good point.

[draynay]

Probably didn't get a reply to it before. Gotta have those replies, man!

I replied and told him he was wrong, he's always wrong.

[Draco-Onis]

Us disagreeing on something, does not mean it is something I feel is not important.

How about not important enough not to support him like the environment or the excessive lying, not saying you agree with it just not big enough of a deal.

[Captain N]

As I said, the argument is pretty silly, but it is not racist. Say that Trump made a silly point and I will agree with you.

Trump goes after everyone, women, men, animals, whoever. Your last sentence does not exist.

If you honestly believe it's not racist I want you to walk up to a random non-Caucasian on the street and tell them to go back to their country.

Trump has a long-standing history of going after women and men that aren't white too. I mean that whole thing about his rental properties and Central Park Five stuff comes to mind immediately.

[rda]

In modern Russia, some neo-Nazis[88][89] and also Rodnovers argue that the Russian name of the swastika is kolovrat ...

Kolovrat is indeed used. I'll say though that the groups using it were and continue being pressured like hell by the silovikis, they were considered to be dangerous. I am not sure where you were going with this, but perhaps the above would be useful to know.

[Ghostpanther]

How about not important enough not to support him like the environment or the excessive lying, not saying you agree with it just not big enough of a deal.

I think I have replied to you on several occasions about things he does and says, I do not agree with. You seem to forget them for whatever reasons. Like my disagreement on him approving the Keystone pipeline. I know I have told you before I did not approve of it.