Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Elegiac]

Your illogical angst isn't an excuse for calling for the deaths of millions of people so that you can have your way politically. I know you think you have some justification, but just apply the same logic to any other extremist messaging that you likely wholeheartedly oppose. You don't sound very different at all than the Proud Boys or the KKK.

I'm sorry that you have yet to come to terms with the inevitability of human mortality.

Or that you think hating people for having despicable political and moral beliefs is remotely comparable to hating people for not being white.

[Shadowferal]

No, unlike you, I can hold political beliefs and participate in Democracy without hating anyone for any reason. Most of us are like that, why aren't you?
Your forum signature is quickly becoming quite the ironic joke.

Pretty sure the ironic joke is your claim to morality.

[Elegiac]

No, unlike you, I can hold political beliefs and participate in Democracy without hating anyone for any reason. Most of us are like that, why aren't you?

Yeah, no.

This isn't about a difference of political beliefs. Differences in political belief extend to things like the scope of public healthcare, education, etc. Differences in belief about things like, say...science? The fundamental value of human beings versus money? The value in humans being able to continue to live without being beset by a climate in crisis? That's an existential difference, of the kind that defines struggles about things like suffrage and slavery. Though considering Boomers have something of a monopoly on Confederate apologism I'm not surprised they see people of that sort as the underdogs and not actually the villains of the piece.

[Elegiac]

Oh, no. I'm just commenting on the morality of a particular thing, as was previously stated that this isn't a mutually exclusive argument. I'm actually a much more logical than moral person.

As evidenced by the willingness to back a sexual predator for perceived electoral advantage (and still losing).

I understand that you have justified hate that goes so far as wishing for the deaths of others. That's not okay.

Sure it is. Civility is for bootlickers.

I forget, weren't you one of the people saying that you're glad Trump is getting rid of political correctness? Maybe you should fish your monocle out of your caviar.

[Zaydin]

Sure it is. Civility is for bootlickers.

I forget, weren't you one of the people saying that you're glad Trump is getting rid of political correctness? Maybe you should fish your monocle out of your caviar.

Weird how cons were all "Fuck your feelings!" in 2016 and cheering Trump on for not being afraid of being non-PC (Including him mocking a physically disabled reporter and mocking a Gold Star family) and now they whine about people daring to return the favor. Cons can dish it out but can't take it.

[Elegiac]

Hey, I know I'm not going to convince you that being a hateful person is an objectively bad decision. That's for you to figure out through life experiences. I just think that things like that should be called out on the forum because civil people should reject this type of behavior, no matter the motivation.

You also need to realize that you're a giant hypocrite who tries to explain away their logical conflicts with perverted compartmentalization.

Again, being lectured by someone who logically compartmentalized their way into supporting a conflicted pervert is highly amusing, but not really based in anything substantial.

[Wyrt]

Weird how cons were all "Fuck your feelings!" in 2016 and cheering Trump on for not being afraid of being non-PC (Including him mocking a physically disabled reporter and mocking a Gold Star family) and now they whine about people daring to return the favor. Cons can dish it out but can't take it.

Because they're used to people just rolling over and taking their shit.

[Elegiac]

Weird how cons were all "Fuck your feelings!" in 2016 and cheering Trump on for not being afraid of being non-PC (Including him mocking a physically disabled reporter and mocking a Gold Star family) and now they whine about people daring to return the favor. Cons can dish it out but can't take it.

Let's be real here. The whole shit about Trump "saying it like it is" was effectively just people missing how they couldn't be as blatantly racist or bigoted in public anymore. This is also why they're in such a snit about #metoo; because they traditionally rely on calls for "civility" in order to mask patterns of predatory and exploitative behaviour.

[Elegiac]

You're on here calling for the deaths of people

Being happy about the Boomers succumbing to old age, the inevitable state of all humans =/= calling for their deaths.

If I wanted the Boomers to die quickly and en masse I'd be doing something in the vein of supporting cutting Medicare and Social Security. Yet strangely, I'm still supportive of social systems that will ensure they don't die in poverty and disgrace.

Funny how that works.

[Elegiac]

Go back and read your posts. Don't start backtracking on what you've said.

Nor am I backtracking. I still maintain elation with the knowledge that, as bad as things get, there is an expiration date on the current crop of power brokers and at the very least we can hope to Christ and Allah that things don't get too bad in the meantime.

That we have been forced to such a circumstance is entirely on the Boomers. So quit your pearlclutching and find something serious to worry about, like the fact your country is operating concentration camps, or that your President falsified data to the public.

- - - Updated - - -

Incidentally, did you know that in the case of the original Sulla, the Roman dictator, his first round of anti-libel laws was precipitated mostly because he was a chickenshit about people in the tribal assemblies using harsh language when criticising his policies? Funny that.

[Elegiac]

But there isn't an expiration date on anyone. People get older and change perspectives as they change stations in life. Conservatism isn't just some aberration that materialized out of thin air and can be eradicated like polio, no matter how hard you wish for it to be so.

More of this "people get more conservative as they get older" crap, which is based on...nothing, except people repeating it enough times that it seems to be a commonly acknowledged fact.

People get more senile and less able to absorb new information, sure. That's an argument for a maximum voting age, however.

[Wyrt]

But there isn't an expiration date on anyone. People get older and change perspectives as they change stations in life. Conservatism isn't just some aberration that materialized out of thin air and can be eradicated like polio, no matter how hard you wish for it to be so. .

The current version definitely is. It's a product of the prosperity the US experienced following WW2. A situation that will hopefully never be repeated since it'd mean the destruction of basically every other economic power in the world.

There will always be conservatives. There will not always be Trump conservatives. Or at least not in this large of number.

[Breccia]

Liar-in-Chief took credit for Bishop's win in NC.

Not sure which is worse:

1) Trump celebrating a Republican winning in NC, which is supposed to happen routinely, or

2) Trump lying that

Dan Bishop was down 17 points 3 weeks ago

which he never was. He's trying to take credit for his rally of course, and the bigger the swing the better...but no, he was not down 17.

[Benggaul]

More of this "people get more conservative as they get older" crap, which is based on...nothing, except people repeating it enough times that it seems to be a commonly acknowledged fact.

People get more senile and less able to absorb new information, sure. That's an argument for a maximum voting age, however.

I don't know why you bothered posting so much in response to someone that disingenuous. Next time save yourself a lot of time and just say "I was joking" since obviously that's the answer they and their ilk will accept when it comes to questionable language--real or perceived.

Plus, well, he still knowingly supports a pedophile purely for political gain, so there's that.

[Endus]

But there isn't an expiration date on anyone. People get older and change perspectives as they change stations in life. Conservatism isn't just some aberration that materialized out of thin air and can be eradicated like polio, no matter how hard you wish for it to be so. Ideas are immortal. Unfortunately, oppressors like you sometimes have to find out about that phenomenon the hard way.

There is literally zero evidence to support the idea that people get more conservative as they get older.

It's bullshit that was invented by hippies in the '60s to explain why their parents were all harshing their buzz, man, and then to justify themselves turning out to be conservative capitalists themselves, because they never believed any of the rebellious hippie mantra outside of an ignorant need to lash out at their parents.

Doesn't apply to all of them, of course. But the majority. This idea that people are liberal in their youth and get more conservative as they age is absolute nonsense, based on nothing. It has less basis than the "your body contains ten times as many microbial cells as human cells" myth. Which was based on two unrelated guesses based on nothing.

Edit: And before anyone posts an image of the distribution of political affiliation by age in the USA today, I'll pre-emptively note that it's a specific snapshot of a specific context. A single data point. It doesn't make this case. You'd need to show that there has always been a much greater left-wing support among youths, everywhere, and that the profile shifts rightward as they age, again everywhere, in all eras not just the current one.

[Wyrt]

One thing in regard to the "people get conservative when they get older" is that if the Boomers as a generation in the US were ever left wing then we would have a lot of the same social programs here in the US that other countries have had for decades. Boomers were large enough as a generation to make it happen.

Boomers were always conservatives.


Republicans doing a victory lap for winning in NC is hilarious. Congrats, you won districts you always win. Want a cookie?

[Rasulis]

There is literally zero evidence to support the idea that people get more conservative as they get older.

It's bullshit that was invented by hippies in the '60s to explain why their parents were all harshing their buzz, man, and then to justify themselves turning out to be conservative capitalists themselves, because they never believed any of the rebellious hippie mantra outside of an ignorant need to lash out at their parents.

Doesn't apply to all of them, of course. But the majority. This idea that people are liberal in their youth and get more conservative as they age is absolute nonsense, based on nothing. It has less basis than the "your body contains ten times as many microbial cells as human cells" myth. Which was based on two unrelated guesses based on nothing.

Edit: And before anyone posts an image of the distribution of political affiliation by age in the USA today, I'll pre-emptively note that it's a specific snapshot of a specific context. A single data point. It doesn't make this case. You'd need to show that there has always been a much greater left-wing support among youths, everywhere, and that the profile shifts rightward as they age, again everywhere, in all eras not just the current one.

Pew Research did an interesting survey on the issue of generational politics back in 2014. It also included references to several independent studies.

The politics of American generations: How age affects attitudes and voting behavior

The general trend is that presidential performance and political events during one's formative years (between 14 and 24) tend to define one's long term political outlook. In fact, one's political outlook generally become more persistent one grow older.

[Blur4stuff]

People do change as they get older. However, Gen X/Y/Z aren't going to age another 10-20 years and suddenly start hating gays and brown people. They aren't going to suddenly think climate change is a hoax. They also aren't going to suddenly change their minds about universal healthcare. Gen Y/Z have grown up on the internet. They are more connected than anyone before. Most of them know for an absolute fact that dozens of other countries have better healthcare and education systems. They have dozens, if not hundreds of friends and acquaintances in other countries that aren't being hit by soul crushing student loan debt.

This is what many republican boomers can't understand and likely never will. Some dem boomers too, honestly. It's how we get candidates like Biden.

But it's an obvious fact that they are shrinking. Thousands of boomers die each day. It's just a matter of time. At some point the republican party will either die or be forced to switch their positions on climate change, healthcare, student debt and to abandon their racism and xenophobia. The only major issue I see republicans being able to stay the same on is abortion.

[Acidbaron]

People do change as they get older. However, Gen X/Y/Z aren't going to age another 10-20 years and suddenly start hating gays and brown people. They aren't going to suddenly think climate change is a hoax. They also aren't going to suddenly change their minds about universal healthcare. Gen Y/Z have grown up on the internet. They are more connected than anyone before. Most of them know for an absolute fact that dozens of other countries have better healthcare and education systems. They have dozens, if not hundreds of friends and acquaintances in other countries that aren't being hit by soul crushing student loan debt.

This is what many republican boomers can't understand and likely never will. Some dem boomers too, honestly. It's how we get candidates like Biden.

But it's an obvious fact that they are shrinking. Thousands of boomers die each day. It's just a matter of time. At some point the republican party will either die or be forced to switch their positions on climate change, healthcare, student debt and to abandon their racism and xenophobia.

The republicans are still fully in support of a well integrated social construct that makes them indoctrinated people from young age to hate and want to hurt certain demographics.

In Europe we have for a large part forsaken that, yet people still believe the lies peddled to them. You are incomplete in your view about the internet, there is just as much misinformation if not more than actual correct information. Don't underestimate the combination of social media bubbles and propaganda, and that's not me not factoring in the social construct previously mentioned where whole communities are influenced and believes passed on from parent to child.
The barrier to enter the internet is low, really low yet the method to filter and review the information available on it requires far more and we are not in the slightest occupied any more in my our kids critical thinkers, so this is only going to get worse with the rate technology is advancing. And it is not a matter of personal intelligence, i know intelligent people that simply due to previously mentioned influences believe conspiracy over fact.

If you are hoping this will simply die out, i can't say i share that future view and find the reality to be far more depressive, with an increase of intolerance and fascism not a decrease. I wished i shared your optimism but as a young conservative in contact with those among my own ideology and knowing plenty of people part of religious organisations i simply cannot because it is not something based in some reality.

[Breccia]

For all their faults, Trump and Pence are scheduled today to visit the sites where a combined 3,000 Americans lost their lives, and to hold a moment of silence. Good. Today, of all days, we should put aside our --

The Federal Reserve should get our interest rates down to ZERO, or less, and we should then start to refinance our debt. INTEREST COST COULD BE BROUGHT WAY DOWN, while at the same time substantially lengthening the term. We have the great currency, power, and balance sheet.....

Never fucking mind.