Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Belize]

Yeah USA should instead do preemptive strike against fellow NATO member wasting lives of US soldiers instead of doing diplomatic solution like threatening them with economic sanctions in case they attack Kurds.

Or.

Or.

Think about this one:

We could just leave U.S. troops with the Kurds, both as defense and to help them rebuild.

You know, instead of pulling out all the troops.

What a novel fucking idea!

[Breccia]

The Homeland Security Secretary was unable to deliver remarks today at a planned address at Georgetown Law.

"What did the protestors say?"

Mostly they said "He doesn't exist!"

But the acting Secretary of Homeland Security also didn't deliver any remarks.

Before McAleenan began his remarks, protesters stood up and yelled, "When immigrants come under attack, what do we do? Stand up, fight back!"

McAleenan attempted three times to start his speech, but was interrupted by the protesters on every occasion.

"OK, last time, team," McAleenan said as he attempted to start his speech a third time.

"Lot to cover today, there's some very serious issues that we can talk about today in candor, or we can continue to shout."

McAleenan then said he'd "like to take the dialogue above the politics and the daily news cycle" and discuss "some of the fundamental issues we face with the current legal framework and its ability to address large scale immigration flows."

That line was a reference to the Trump administration's attempts to change immigrant protection laws and regulations that it says are being exploited by human smugglers.

But protesters again started their chants and McAleenan walked out.

Now, I'm not blaming him for frustration, but I am going to call out the bolded.

*ahem*

LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!

Nobody who supports Trump is allowed to say the bolded above. That's hypocrisy.

[Breccia]

For those latecomers to the thread, this Axios summary covers the Syria situation fairly well and concisely. I'll just point out the headline, "U.S. exit from Syria leaves civilians and Kurdish fighters at risk", and that it is not an opinion piece.

[Edge-]

“POTUS went rogue," the person said. "It’s not too surprising for those of us who’ve been following him, but it was a surprise and went against what Esper was talking to Akar about.”


Unsurprisingly, Trump went against the advise of his national security team/leaders and didn't bother letting them know about the move to pull out of Syria before announcing it publicly.

So they share something in common with our allies, in that Trump doesn't give a shit about what they say and can't be bothered to give them the common courtesy of letting them know about a significant foreign military action.

This also just happened to come after a call between Trump and Erdogan, which I'm sure they wouldn't hide on a classified server.

[Crispin]

I mean, the man is obviously insane. Whoever signed off that he is not should lose their license.

Agreed, there's no 4D chess or anything that resembles it. A far too big ego carried by his dad's millions and a terrible attitude hit by starting dementia. I thought the GOP was for the hard working man and his American dream, not spoiled idiots who'll throw anyone, including his supporters and voters under the bus if it means he can betray their country.

I guess when he say unmatched he means his supporters

- - - Updated - - -

“POTUS went rogue," the person said. "It’s not too surprising for those of us who’ve been following him, but it was a surprise and went against what Esper was talking to Akar about.”


Unsurprisingly, Trump went against the advise of his national security team/leaders and didn't bother letting them know about the move to pull out of Syria before announcing it publicly.

So they share something in common with our allies, in that Trump doesn't give a shit about what they say and can't be bothered to give them the common courtesy of letting them know about a significant foreign military action.

This also just happened to come after a call between Trump and Erdogan, which I'm sure they wouldn't hide on a classified server.

Perhaps Erdogan bought several apartments at the Trump towers in Istanbul.

[shimerra]

He is pulling out so US soldiers can finally go home. Are you suggesting that he wants Kurds to die? Why would he want that ?

He literally warned Turkey against going after Kurds.

If I warn you not to rob me and then advise you I'm going to leave my door unlocked and me gone from the hours of 4 AM to 10 PM on Tuesday and you rob me should I be surprised?

How gullible are you?

[Crispin]

Hey, unmatched means not equaled. Which is probably true. No one has that little wisdom so his wisdom is unmatched.

Maybe the Trump supporters here can enlighten us, on whether they're smarter or dumber than Trump.

[Cizr]

Or.

Or.

Think about this one:

We could just leave U.S. troops with the Kurds, both as defense and to help them rebuild.

You know, instead of pulling out all the troops.

What a novel fucking idea!

Trump said US must end "endless wars" and bring troops home. He was saying that US should stay out of Syria since 2013.

I am sure you would be thrilled to stay in a desert if you were US soldier

[Edge-]

Trump said US must end "endless wars" and bring troops home. He was saying that US should stay out of Syria since 2013.

I am sure you would be thrilled to stay in a desert if you were US soldier

If the alternative is the conflict getting worse and abandoning our local allies...yes. You need to take a larger/longer view than just an individual when thinking about regional conflicts and stability. I'm no fan of forever wars either and I'd like to get out of the Middle East, but we have to do it right so we don't make things worse and need to have a larger footprint later.

[Cizr]

If the alternative is the conflict getting worse and abandoning our local allies...yes. You need to take a larger/longer view than just an individual when thinking about regional conflicts and stability. I'm no fan of forever wars either and I'd like to get out of the Middle East, but we have to do it right so we don't make things worse and need to have a larger footprint later.

At least we agree on something.

I hope that Turkey wont try shit against Kurds and if they will Trump will actually ACT quickly to put Turkey in line or else fuck Trump. Kurds deserve better but so do US soldiers and their families.

[Edge-]

Kurds deserve better but so do US soldiers and their families.

Pretending Trump gives a shit about either is laughable, as he deports the undocumented wives of deployed personnel, takes money intended for more facilities for families to pay for his wall, and continues to leave service members deployed at the border to shovel manure and sit around in the desert.

[Machismo]

Trump said US must end "endless wars" and bring troops home. He was saying that US should stay out of Syria since 2013.

I am sure you would be thrilled to stay in a desert if you were US soldier

And yet, Trump just decided to shuffle them to a different desert... in Arizona.

[Edge-]

There are still people down there? WTF for?!

Unless they've been pulled back, and I haven't seen those reports if they have.

[Cizr]

Pretending Trump gives a shit about either is laughable, as he deports the undocumented wives of deployed personnel, takes money intended for more facilities for families to pay for his wall, and continues to leave service members deployed at the border to shovel manure and sit around in the desert.

Yeah it sucks that being spouse of a soldier does not allow you to disregard law, right ?

I dont think that being deployed at US border and being deployed in a thirld world country and facing threats of getting suicide bombed are same.

[Machismo]

Yeah it sucks that being spouse of a soldier does not allow you to disregard law, right ?

I dont think that being deployed at US border and being deployed in a thirld world country and facing threats of getting suicide bombed are same.

You specifically mentioned the desert... so that's on you.

I bet you they would rather not be in any desert.

[Edge-]

Yeah it sucks that being spouse of a soldier does not allow you to disregard law, right ?

No, these were people who weren't supposed to be prioritized for deportation, according to Trump. Additionally, you'd imagine that you might get a bit of leeway for being married to a US servicemember and having a family, but I guess their service doesn't get any favors.

I dont think that being deployed at US border and being deployed in a thirld world country and facing threats of getting suicide bombed are same.

I never said they were. I was highlighting the fact that Trump, by his own actions, doesn't give a shit about the troops and farming this move as him caring about the troops is dishonest as fuck.

[Easo]

Jesus christ, the news about Syria truly deserve their own thread.
It is likely that there is going to be blood, and more than before when Turkey moved into Afrin.
Kurds have been betrayed (yes, betrayed, no need to soften the reality) for an "ally" which is becoming increasingly belligerent and unreliable as Turkey continues to slide into autocracy (I can hear the Ataturk spinning) and consorts with nations which are really not our friends - chiefly Russia.
I wonder what the troops there are thinking, after being allied with kurds for more than a decade, with so many positive responses about them. My guess is that enough US soldiers will feel betrayed by their leadership as well.
Kurds are the only rational voice in the region, even with their own flaws. There is no one else.

And then there is the thing about USA's internation reputation. It again has fallen, for world watches and sees that USA's trustworthiness as allies are continuing to drop, so why trust them in the future? And no, USA does need allies, dont really have to explain that one...

So tell me, Trump supporters, is this really worth it?

Status quo, while not ideal, at least worked somehow...
P.S.
I do wonder what Erdogan promised Trump. I really do... Because I do not see anything outside of reelection trick "Our GREAT Troops are coming home!!111'.

He is pulling out so US soldiers can finally go home. Are you suggesting that he wants Kurds to die? Why would he want that ?

He literally warned Turkey against going after Kurds.

Oh just like he warned North Korea, Iran, Russia and China, repeatedly? His threats have been mostly empty air.
And you, do you seriously think he cares about troops going home outside of his reelection campaign?

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-during-border

Teddy Roosevelt would be ready to shoot people if he saw this.

[ParanoiD84]

Trump is a idiot for abandoning the Kurds in syria, fuck Erdogan. The kurds where a huge allie against IS and now the us is just gonna back off? nah fuck that shit they should be there telling turkey to fuck off and leave the kurds there.

[Thekri]

Jesus christ, the news about Syria truly deserve their own thread.
It is likely that there is going to be blood, and more than before when Turkey moved into Afrin.
Kurds have been betrayed (yes, betrayed, no need to soften the reality) for an "ally" which is becoming increasingly belligerent and unreliable as Turkey continues to slide into autocracy (I can hear the Ataturk spinning) and consorts with nations which are really not our friends - chiefly Russia.
I wonder what the troops there are thinking, after being allied with kurds for more than a decade, with so many positive responses about them. My guess is that enough US soldiers will feel betrayed by their leadership as well.
Kurds are the only rational voice in the region, even with their own flaws. There is no one else.

And then there is the thing about USA's internation reputation. It again has fallen, for world watches and sees that USA's trustworthiness as allies are continuing to drop, so why trust them in the future? And no, USA does need allies, dont really have to explain that one...

So tell me, Trump supporters, is this really worth it?

Status quo, while not ideal, at least worked somehow...
P.S.
I do wonder what Erdogan promised Trump. I really do... Because I do not see anything outside of reelection trick "Our GREAT Troops are coming home!!111'.

I mean we could make a new thread, but it would be the exact same responses on here. This horrible, but we have seen it coming for months. I was never personally deployed to Syria, but a lot of my friends were, in fact I know quite a few people over there now. We have been talking about this upcoming development since at least April.

Basically what is going on is that the Kurds have consolidated a power base in northern Syria, which is precisely what the Turks have called unacceptable from the beginning. The Kurds were able to do this largely because the US has been blocking the Russian and Syrian forces from pushing them out, in the meantime they have successfully eliminated ISIS and Shiite militias from their area, so the US was pretty happy with that. However, the Turks have been escalating rhetoric that they are going to attack into Syria to clear them out, which will be spectacularly bloody.

This is the exact reason Mattis resigned with that angry letter, the Kurds have been the only group over there that has consistently backed the US for the last two decades or more. They are still extremely grateful that we removed Saddam (Who was massacring them) and later ISIS (Same), however now we have apparently decided it is fine to let the Turks go massacre them.

Reminder for everyone, Syria isn't a war with two sides. Like Afghanistan and Iraq, there are dozens of players involved, and they all have their agendas. They combine in some places, and clash in others. For instance, Israel, Iran, Russia, Turkey and the US all prioritize striking ISIS, and loosely cooperate in doing so. However Turkey and Russians also target Kurds, while the US backs them, and Israel and Iran don't give a shit about them as long as they stay out of the way. Meanwhile the Syrian government is mostly concerned with seizing territory, Iran is backing strikes on Israel, Israel is attempting to clear out Iranian influence, the Saudis are funding everyone, local smugglers and crimelords are making bank off everyone, and ISIS is murdering everyone like the Joker. So it is a clusterfuck.

Trump understands none of this, and gets extremely frustrated when anyone tries to explain it to him, so he keeps demanding broad simple solutions like this one. Every time he does, a bunch of generals sit him down and explain to him all the people his plan is going to get killed. Eventually, he has managed to fire all those generals, and now we finally have this disaster. I am sure Trump got some sort of "Guarantee" from Erdogan that there won't be any massacres, which he feels gives him enough plausible deniability to do it. Of course that guarantee is worthless, because among other things, the Kurds aren't going to let him move in unopposed in the first place. So when the slaughter starts, Trump will pretend he had nothing to do with it, and busily deflect. The media will spend about 10 minutes on it, and go back to talking about Trump dropping the N-word on twitter or something.