Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Easo]

Get involved in the middle east, we're called war mongers.
pull out of the middle east, get asked why we're not fixing it.
Fuck having American soldiers die for other countries.

1. You are not truly pulling out of Middle East. You realise that, right?
2. So have your allies die for you, then? Is that how you want USA to be seen? You died for kurds, I agree. But they also died for you and they were the ones actually fighting the IS while Turkey, your (and mine) direct, formal ally twiddled thumbs right over the border looking at the black flags in the taken Syrian border posts.

Turkey couldn't even wait a day, already airstriking Kurds.
https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/s...85712345403393

I really wish for once that these are fake news. Seriously.
To be fair, the video has worse quality than potato and could be years old, so it actually might be fake.
Please be fake xD

[Breccia]

I really wish for once that these are fake news. Seriously.

I mean, I wouldn't expect high-quality video from some random passerby who happens to find themselves staring at an air strike in Syria. But you're right, let's get confirmation on this before going further.

That said, it's 100% believable that Turkey was waiting to do exactly this. Ertigan isn't exactly a peaceful, quiet benevolent leader.

- - - Updated - - -

As trade talks are about to begin, Kudlow addresses a report we saw earlier.

U.S. President Donald Trump’s chief economic adviser on Monday said the administration had begun studying U.S. investor protections in China, but that delisting Chinese companies traded on U.S. exchanges “is not on the table.”

“The delisting is not on the table. I don’t know where that came from,” Larry Kudlow told reporters.

“What we’re looking at, actually, is investor protection, U.S. investor protections ... transparency and compliance with a number of laws,” he said, citing complaints from exchanges.

Before continuing about transparency and compliance, Trump's Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, OMB head, five special envoys and his personal lawyer were all subpoenad.

[Cizr]

Thank you for responding. But um...I think one of those "if"s is no longer valid.

I would say wait for confirmation to be sure. If Turks are really attacking Kurds then I hope that Trump will do something or else he is pretty spineless.

[Breccia]

Let's turn to the BBC in a summary piece.

Why is Turkey planning an assault?

One main reason: Turkey considers the biggest militia in the Kurdish-led alliance a terrorist group. It says it is an extension of a Kurdish rebel group fighting in Turkey.

Turkish leaders want a 32km (20-mile) deep "safe zone" along the Syrian side of the border clear of Kurdish fighters. They also hope to resettle up to 2 million Syrian refugees currently living in Turkey there.

The Kurdish-led alliance says it will defend its territory and that the US is "leaving the area to turn into a war zone" and risking the re-emergence of IS.

Turkish leaders view the YPG as an extension of the banned Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which has fought for Kurdish autonomy in Turkey for three decades.

The YPG dominates an alliance of Kurdish and Arab militias called the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which has driven IS out of a third of Syria over the past four years with the help of air strikes by a US-led coalition.

Turkey has condemned the US for supporting the YPG and has carried out two cross-border offensives against the Kurdish forces.

That December, with IS close to defeat, President Donald Trump said the US would begin withdrawing its troops from Syria. When commanders and allies expressed concern about the fate of the Kurds, he vowed to "devastate Turkey economically" it attacked them and proposed a "20-mile safe zone" along the border.

Mr Trump later suspended the withdrawal, but Turkish President Recep Erdogan continued pressing for a safe zone.

In August, the US and Turkey agreed to establish one together. Kurdish officials expressed support and the YPG dismantled border fortifications.

But two months later, Mr Trump decided to let Turkish troops set up the safe zone alone.

Mr Erdogan is confident his proposed 480km-long corridor will ensure Turkey's border security and become home to between 1 and 2 million Syrian refugees.

Turkey will also take responsibility for all captured IS militants there, according to the White House.

The SDF says it has been "stabbed in the back" by the US, and warns that a Turkish offensive will create a "permanent warzone" and reverse the defeat of IS.

[Edge-]

I hope that Trump will do something or else he is pretty spineless.

There's a tweet for that!

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...622913?lang=en

DO SOMETHING!!!!

[Thepersona]

Turkey couldn't even wait a day, already airstriking Kurds.
https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/s...85712345403393

May i Say something? i dunno if it was said before, but today is Putin's birthday

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin

[Benggaul]

"Damn it, nobody I've been goading has been getting us into that war I desperately need to save my chances at a second term...Hey, what about throwing some loyal allies to the wolves and then starting a war based off that?"

Pure speculation. Not a conspiracy theory. Just something I wouldn't put past Trump at this point.

[Shadowferal]

Looks like China isn't going to making any deals soon.

On October 3, 2019, Trump ignited a new controversy when he stood on the White House lawn and said, “China should start an investigation into the Bidens, because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with – with Ukraine.” The Wall Street Journal reported, “Mr. Trump’s call for China to investigate Mr. Biden and his son marked the first time he invoked Beijing – with which the U.S. is involved in tense trade negotiations – in his quest for a probe into his potential 2020 opponent.”

While Trump may be seeking to solve one political problem (i.e., trailing Biden in early opinion polls), analysts believe the trade talks may focus on solving another, more specific, political problem – the economic damage Trump’s tariffs and China’s retaliation have caused U.S. farmers.



----------------------------

Trump; "I'll give you (China) a sweetheart deal if you can give me dirt on Biden."

[ParanoiD84]

I think the soldiers who fought side by side with those Kurds and realize that by leaving they are abandoning them to be slaughtered may not agree with you.

Indeed i think so too.

[Benggaul]

I think the soldiers who fought side by side with those Kurds and realize that by leaving they are abandoning them to be slaughtered may not agree with you.

Also, pretty sure if Trump gave a fuck about troops and their families he wouldn't have needlessly sent several down to the border over the holidays for his fake "National Security" bid.

[Orange Joe]

Exactly. Well said. Keep posting, I enjoy reading your rebuttals.

Not surprised you enjoy Russian propaganda.... Thanks for finally admitting it.

- - - Updated - - -

LOL Oh how many times I have caught people doing there cracks me up, and half the time if they do find a source it's almost as good as "The Onion"

Fewer than you have been busted for yourself.

[Breccia]

Getting out in front of this.

So Trump signed a trade deal with Japan today.

"Yeah! MAGA! Trump finally won one! USA! USA!"

Oh, so you read the trade agreement?

"Uh..."

Trick question.

The deal’s full text has not been released and remains classified

"Okay, but it's better than the TPP that Trump took us out of! USA! USA!"

...but congressional aides, trade experts and industry groups briefed on it say that it offers worse access to Japan for some U.S. agricultural goods than the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), a now 11-country trade deal that Trump quit on his third day in office in 2017.

"Worse? Well, how can it be worse if it reduces Japan's tariffs on US cars?"

Oh, that's easy. They were never tariffed in the first place. Japan just has strong emissions requirements, you know, like the ones Trump is destroying in the USA. The TPP would have affected that, but, this agreement does not. So that's not just unchanged, it's worse.

"Oh yeah, well, at least US natural gas will have the tariffs removed!"

No, that was left out.

"Yeah...but...RICE! The US grows rice, the Japanese love rice! And NC grows some great medium grain!"

They do! Remember how the TPP would have exempted the first 70,000 tons of rice to Japan from tariffs? Guess how many tons Trump got through?

"At least --"

Zero. Zero tons. There is no change.

"Corn?"

U.S. ethanol will essentially see the same tariff reduction schedule as other TPP countries, an industry official said.

And the deal maintains Japan’s zero duty on U.S. corn for animal feed, but grants a quota eliminating a 3% duty on sweet corn and other types of corn, according to the U.S. Grains Council, an industry group, which said the deal brings most U.S. grains exports “largely back in line with TPP.”

So, again, almost as good.

"Wheat?"

Wheat producers also said they have been told by the Trump administration that tariffs on exports to Japan will drop in line with tariffs on Australian and Canadian wheat.

Japan’s tariffs on U.S. wine will also will fall, from 15% to 7.1% on April 1, 2020, basically the same level they would have under the TPP, the Wine Institute said.

But Japanese documents say that no concessions were granted for other types of alcohol. U.S. bourbon and Tennessee whiskey had won some labeling protections in TPP along with tariff reductions.

"...does Japan make beer?"

Yeah, but, remember how the TPP was going to remove the tariffs on barley? Guess what Trump's trade deal doesn't do? Hey, did you know that the TPP uses a pre-tariff quota system, to enforce a trade distribution on things like barley, sugar, chocolate?

"Yeah?"

Wanna guess what Trump's share is?

"...you're going to say zero, aren't you?"

It's zero. The US would have had a quota, if we stayed in TPP.

"Wait, isn't the main issue dairy? Surely the US could export some dairy to Japan now?"

“We think it’s probably 80% of what we would have gotten in TPP,” said Michael Dykes, president and CEO of the International Dairy Foods Association.

Trump held out two and a half years for 80% of what he abandoned.

"Meat?"

U.S. beef is the major winner in the U.S.-Japan deal and will see Japanese tariffs fall from to 9% from 38.5% by 2033, on the same schedule as TPP competitors Australia, New Zealand and Canada, according to U.S. and Japanese officials.

The story is the same for U.S. pork exports to Japan, which topped $1.6 billion in 2018, but now face a significant tariff disadvantage compared to TPP and EU countries. The deal will put U.S. producers on the same tariff reduction schedule as these competitors, with a 20% tariff for seasoned pork dropping to zero within six years.

"Tech?"

Actually Trump seemed to get a win on that part, specifically, preventing inter-country taxation on digital downloads. Credit where it's due.

"Yeah! MAGA! And all for free!"

Well...

Motor vehicles and parts, by far the largest Japanese export to the United States at $56 billion in 2018, were left out for a later phase of negotiations. Abe said Trump agreed not to impose threatened “Section 232” tariffs on Japanese cars and parts on national security grounds.

"Wait, he's going to let Japan export cars all they want and no tariffs?"

That's what it seems like, yeah.

"But what about all that America First? Manufacturing! Factories! Doesn't Japan export a shitload of non-steel-tarffied, workers-aren't-on-strike, better-mileage-sells-in-California cars? Where did that all go?"

Under the bus with the farmers, I guess. Trump just held out for a worse deal in every single agricultural product, and for US automakers, than what he inherited.

And he's going to pass this along as a victory. And the rabid fanbase will agree, without bothering to find out the truth.

[tumppu]

He's going to pass this along as a victory and the rabid fanbase will agree, without bothering to find out the truth.

The trump shitshow condensed to a single sentence.

[Thekri]

I think the soldiers who fought side by side with those Kurds and realize that by leaving they are abandoning them to be slaughtered may not agree with you.

I don't have to speculate, I know the soldiers in question. The majority of the enlisted ranks still support Trump, but even the ones that do are extremely pissed off at this. This goes against everything we do over there, and it is horrifying to them. It is one of the reasons why you see the GOP willing to challenge Trump on this. Even his base can't approve of it. Anyone who knows anything about this situation knows how fucking evil this is.

Yes, I said evil. I don't know what else to call this. This isn't just weakness, this is pure evil, either from incompetence or malice, but evil all the same.

[Breccia]

Yes, I said evil. I don't know what else to call this.

As I spent today's downtime looking through articles about the situation, they often shared a word: betrayal.

But a few scattered ones shared a common suggestion. Trump is looking for any way possible he can say to a packed crowd "I said I would bring the troops home, and I did!" after Afghanistan fell apart. Because, you know, he tried to negotiate with terrorists on the White House lawn.

Now, let's skip the part where the rabid fanbase will cheer no matter what. They have an act to keep up, after all.

But when Trump said he'd bring the troops home, well, he only has a fixed number of options. And he just sent the troops to the Saudi end zone to keep Iran from scoring another safety. Even a member of the rabid fanbase won't give Trump credit for bringing home the troops he put there in the first place. So...that didn't leave a lot of options.

Then there's the whole "ceding Syria to Russia" thing. Trump ordered a pullback before, but people like Bolton changed his mind. Holy shit, I just realized I miss Bolton. Um, I mean Mattis! Mattis! Yeah...

I mean, Trump's original tweets made it look like it was about money -- $230 million a year. For someone who steals $3.6 billion from the Pentagon, and claims to be making billions from China off tariffs, that's a hard sell. But whether it's about Trump's own political future or the money involved, betraying an ally for either is..well...

The neutral evil is an unscrupulous, self-serving character who is only out for himself. Power, glory, wealth, position, and anything that will make his life more comfortable is his goal. It matters not who gets caught in the middle, as long as he comes out smelling like a rose. This person will lie, cheat, and kill anyone to attain his personal goals.

For this and other alignment-related questions, easydamus.com is your first stop. How about reading "The Neutral Evil Code", aka "Top 10 Ways to Tell if You're Neutral Evil"? I think you'll like #7.

7. You shall betray friends, family, community, and nation to advance yourself.

[Zaydin]

God, that Trump tweet. "My great and unmatched wisdom". I think the realities of impeachment are sinking in for Trump and he's starting to snap.

Supposedly McConnell told Trump he can't just throw the Kurds under the bus, too.

[Crispin]

Get involved in the middle east, we're called war mongers.

pull out of the middle east, get asked why we're not fixing it.


Fuck having American soldiers die for other countries.

Are you really that simple-minded?

[Draco-Onis]

I would say wait for confirmation to be sure. If Turks are really attacking Kurds then I hope that Trump will do something or else he is pretty spineless.

He said he will wag his finger at Turkey.

[Cizr]

He said he will wag his finger at Turkey.

Does not sound like it will be effective.

I hope that Europe will act too

[Draco-Onis]

Does not sound like it will be effective.

I hope that Europe will act too

If I were the Kurds right now I would let those 80-90K ISIS prisoners go free as a giant fuck you to Trump.