Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Mormolyce]

He's making shit up right?

No one is that stupid.

When will we learn to stop underestimating his stupidity?

[Poopymonster]

I just want to hear him say Niger out loud.

.....Well, yeah. I gotta say I'm with you on this one.

[Breccia]

It begins.

Trump has started attacking Mike Pence.

First of all, we're all fully aware Pence only went to the Colts game to walk out, and he did so at Trump's direction. At the time, seen as only a political stunt to cost the taxpayers hundreds of thousands, if not millions. And we're also fully aware Trump didn't go himself to make this pointless political message. But it turns out, that was only Act I. Bannon has now flat-out accused Pence of working for the Koch Brothers, in an interview containing such phrases as “I’m concerned he’d be a President that the Kochs would own." Okay, that's not great either. But then, Trump enters the fray, by joking that Pence wants to hang all gay people.

That's horrifying. It's not funny at all.

What it is, is an indication that Team Trump is trying to portray Pence as someone worse than him.

Should we take this, added to the "Manafort is going to jail" thread, as signs that Trump knows how much trouble he's in? Time will tell. But Bannon's move against Pence is not the random, chaotic bluster we expect from non-teleprompter Trump. It's intentional, it's calculated.

P.S. Golfing and tweeting.

[downnola]

It begins.

Trump has started attacking Mike Pence.

First of all, we're all fully aware Pence only went to the Colts game to walk out, and he did so at Trump's direction. At the time, seen as only a political stunt to cost the taxpayers hundreds of thousands, if not millions. And we're also fully aware Trump didn't go himself to make this pointless political message. But it turns out, that was only Act I. Bannon has now flat-out accused Pence of working for the Koch Brothers, in an interview containing such phrases as “I’m concerned he’d be a President that the Kochs would own." Okay, that's not great either. But then, Trump enters the fray, by joking that Pence wants to hang all gay people.

That's horrifying. It's not funny at all.

What it is, is an indication that Team Trump is trying to portray Pence as someone worse than him.

Should we take this, added to the "Manafort is going to jail" thread, as signs that Trump knows how much trouble he's in? Time will tell. But Bannon's move against Pence is not the random, chaotic bluster we expect from non-teleprompter Trump. It's intentional, it's calculated.

P.S. Golfing and tweeting.

From the article:

One Trump campaign staffer also told The New Yorker that Trump used to ask people leaving meetings with Pence, “Did Mike make you pray?"

One source said the president likes to "let Pence know who's boss,"

rofl.

[Breccia]

How the Russians pretended to be Texans — and Texans believed them

In early 2016, while researching some of the most popular U.S. secession groups online, I stumbled across one of the Russian-controlled Facebook accounts that were then pulling in Americans by the thousands.

At the time, I was writing on Russia’s relationship with American secessionists from Texas, Hawaii and Puerto Rico. These were people who had hitched flights to Moscow to swap tactics, to offer advice and to find support. They had found succor in the shadow of the Kremlin.

That was how I eventually found my way to the “Heart of Texas” Facebook page (and its @itstimetosecede Twitter feed as well). Heart of Texas soon grew into the most popular Texas secession page on Facebook — one that, at one point in 2016, boasted more followers than the official Texas Democrat and Republican Facebook pages combined. By the time Facebook took the page down recently, it had a quarter of a million followers.

The page started slowly — just a few posts per week. Unlike other secession sites I’d come across, this one never carried any contact information, never identified any of the individuals behind the curtain. Even as it grew, there was nothing to locate it in Texas — or anywhere else, for that matter. It was hard to escape the suspicion that there might be Russian involvement here as well.

There were other oddities about the site. Its organizers had a strangely one-dimensional idea of its subject. They seemed to think, for example, that Texans drank Dr. Pepper at all hours: while driving their giant trucks, while flying their Confederate battle flags, while griping about Yankees and liberals and vegetarians.

But Heart of Texas, sadly, was no joke. At one point the page’s organizers even managed to stir up its followers into staging an armed, anti-Islamic protest in Houston. As gradually became clear, this was part of a broader strategy. The sponsors of the page were keen to exacerbate America’s own internal divisions. At certain moments they lent support to Black Lives Matter, while in others they would play to the latent (or obvious) racism of Donald Trump’s base.

By the summer of 2016, other themes began to emerge. Posts began to follow a perceptibly hard-right course, stressing Texas’s status as a “Christian state,” or touting the Second Amendment as a “symbol of freedom … so we would forever be free from any tyranny.” Some of the page’s contributors talked about the need to “keep Texas Texan,” whatever that meant. There was also a generous dollop of conspiracy theory. There were posts about the allegedly unnatural death of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia and the supposed federal invasion orders behind the Jade Helm military exercise. Fake Founding Father quotes mingled with anti-Muslim screeds and paeans to Sam Houston. And the number of followers steadily crept into the hundreds of thousands.

Though the site’s authors understood their audience well, there was something off about their writing. The page’s “About” section proclaimed that “Texas’s the land protected by Lord [sic].” Grammatical and spelling glitches were everywhere: “In Love With Texas Shape,” “State Fair of Texas – Has You Already Visited?,” “Always Be Ready for a Texas Size,” “No Hypoclintos in the God Blessed Texas.” (Or take this caption for a photo of country music star George Strait: “Life is not breaths you take, but the moments that take your breth [sic] away.”) Yet the typos never seemed to raise any suspicions in readers’ minds.

Even the page’s calls for an early November protest across the state – part pro-secession, part anti-Clinton — were garbled. One post declared that “we are free citizens of Texas and we’ve had enough of this cheap show on the screen.” The site called on those who showed up to “make photos.”

Heart of Texas chugged on after the election, bringing in tens of thousands of new followers in 2017 who were unbothered by its mangled English, its rank nativism and its calls to break up the United States.

And then, in August, it was gone. Just like that, the most popular Texas secession page on Facebook was revealed to be a Russian front, operated by the notorious Internet Research Agency, with Facebook removing all of the posts from public view. (It’s worth noting that another Instagram account started posting Heart of Texas material as soon as the original Facebook page was taken down.)

Despite its claims of transparency, Facebook has effectively prevented the public from examining these posts and these pages. So far Heart of Texas remains the only example of a Russian account that I and other researchers managed to study in detail before Facebook pulled the rug out from underneath it.

We know that the Russians behind these sites played all of their readers, and especially those who showed up at its protests in places like Twin Falls and Fort Myers and Houston, for fools. Considering that the number of their combined followers ranged into the millions — with some estimates placing total views potentially in the billions — they’re probably right.

The creators of Heart of Texas not only targeted the sociopolitical tensions within the United States. They also exploited our gullibility, which turned out to be far greater than I could have ever imagined. And by assisting them in this massive lie, Facebook has enabled one of the greatest frauds in recent American history.

[Toogoodman]

When will we learn to stop underestimating his stupidity?

I am pretty sure there is bottom

- - - Updated - - -

That's horrifying. It's not funny at all.

What it is, is an indication that Team Trump is trying to portray Pence as someone worse than him.

Should we take this, added to the "Manafort is going to jail" thread, as signs that Trump knows how much trouble he's in? Time will tell. But Bannon's move against Pence is not the random, chaotic bluster we expect from non-teleprompter Trump. It's intentional, it's calculated.

P.S. Golfing and tweeting.

I mean that's not far from the truth, nothing scares me more than some religiously insane nut running the government, he literally admits he hates gays and thinks they shouldn't have rights.... sooo......

[Breccia]

Hmm.

Mueller interviews cyber expert who claimed he was 'recruited to collude' with Russians: report

Special counsel Robert Mueller has interviewed a cybersecurity expert who claims he was "recruited to collude with the Russians" in the 2016 election, Business Insider reported Tuesday.

Matt Tait, a former information security specialist for Britain's Government Communications Headquarters was interviewed weeks ago by Mueller, according to a source familiar with the investigation.

Tait claimed that he was recruited by a longtime GOP operative tied to the Trump campaign, Peter W. Smith, to obtain emails deleted from Hillary Clinton's private email server that they believed were hacked by the Russians.

Smith reportedly told people during his investigation that he was affiliated with President Trump's former national security adviser, Michael Flynn.

In an article titled "The Time I Got Recruited to Collude with the Russians," Tait told Lawfareblog.com in June that Smith approached him during the campaign for help determining the veracity of emails Smith said he received from "dark web hackers."

"Smith implied that he was a well-connected Republican political operative," Tait wrote. He added that Smith believed "Clinton’s private email server had been hacked—in his view almost certainly both by the Russian government and likely by multiple other hackers too."

"From [Smith's] perspective it didn’t matter who had taken the emails, or their motives for doing so," Taid continued. "He never expressed to me any discomfort with the possibility that the emails he was seeking were potentially from a Russian front, a likelihood he was happy to acknowledge."

"We knew the people who had these were probably around the Russian government," Smith told The Wall Street Journal in May.

Smith killed himself days after speaking to Journal about his efforts.

The House Intelligence Committee interviewed Tait as part of its investigation earlier this month, CNN reported.

Bolded for "any of you conspiracy theorists out there who believe the Clinton Body Count must now also accept that Trump is just as guilty of murdering people as well". Of course, that's not true, the man was old and sick, but don't let facts stop you once you're committed to disinformation.

[Mormolyce]

I am pretty sure there is bottom

He's currently fighting gold star families again after telling a whopper of a lie about previous administrations not meeting them, so I'm not really sure at this point.

[Paranoid Android]

He's currently fighting gold star families again after telling a whopper of a lie about previous administrations not meeting them, so I'm not really sure at this point.

This might become a mega-thread or at least the longest running thread in MMO-CHAMP history, since Donny Orange Turd commits turd after turd everyday.

[Toogoodman]

He's currently fighting gold star families again after telling a whopper of a lie about previous administrations not meeting them, so I'm not really sure at this point.

ah i meant the is no bottom**

[PACOX]

Mueller got Spicey too!

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/1...a-probe-243882

[Paranoid Android]

The shit show continues.

Trump to widow of Sgt. La David Johnson: "He knew what he signed up for" https://t.co/ZKREENMCjA https://t.co/sjzs9saPLh

[Breccia]

Trump says he's done more in 9 months than "any President in history".

Actually, as is kind of his thing, his exact quote was "Over the last nine months, we have removed job-killing regulations at a record pace. In fact, in nine months, we have done more, they say, than any president in history." Adding "they say" is consistent with Trump's lies covered by "a lot of people are saying it".

He did cite one source: that the EPA had ended the war on "clean, beautiful coal". Oddly enough, he failed to mention any piece of legislation he signed.

[Dontrike]

The shit show continues.

Trump to widow of Sgt. La David Johnson: "He knew what he signed up for" https://t.co/ZKREENMCjA https://t.co/sjzs9saPLh

When you just can't do the simplest of things. Yes, soldiers know what they sign up for, but that's NOT what you fucking say to the family. Seriously, has Trump ever actually talked to people before?

This might become a mega-thread or at least the longest running thread in MMO-CHAMP history, since Donny Orange Turd commits turd after turd everyday.

The longest thread is 11,000+ pages and nowadays threads can only reach about 4k before they are shut down, as it actually starts to break the website.

[Breccia]

Kushner lawyers up.

"He did that a while ago."

Now he has another one. He hired the guy who, I am not making this up, used to represent Weinstein. Yes, that Weinstein. And he might need the help.


Putin Rival Ties Kushner Meeting to Kremlin Bankers

A prominent exiled Russian oligarch said in an exclusive interview with NBC News that he is nearly certain Russian President Vladimir Putin tried to collaborate with the Trump campaign, and that he believes a top Russian banker was not "acting on his own behalf" when he held a controversial meeting with Jared Kushner last December.

The pointed remarks come from a longtime Putin rival, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, an oil executive who was Russia's richest man before he was imprisoned and exiled by the Kremlin.

"I am almost convinced that Putin's people have tried to influence the U.S. election in some way," Khodorkovsky told MSNBC’s Ari Melber in his first U.S. television interview since Trump took office.

Khodorkovsky says he believes the likelihood that Putin "personally" tried to cooperate with the Trump campaign to affect the election is a "9 out of 10."

"Whether or not that proposal was accepted, I would let the people responsible for investigating the matter answer that question," he added.

- - - Updated - - -

Trump loses $600 million dollars last year, dropping to #248 on the Forbes list.

- - - Updated - - -

Trump told the Heritage Foundation -- and others -- his tax plan would save the average American family $4,000.

Nobody believes him.

Independent economists on why they aren't buying Trump's tax plan promise

President Donald Trump told the audience at a Heritage Foundation event in Washington Tuesday night that his administration's tax plan will boost the average American household income by $4,000. The figure was included in a report from White House economists published on Monday.

"Our tax plan will ensure that companies stay in America, grow in America, and hire in America," Trump said Tuesday night.

While the president previously made the pitch at speech in Pennsylvania last week, independent economists say the estimate is inflated and unrealistic.

White House Chief Economist Kevin Hassett has long advocated for a concept popular among many Republicans known as "supply-side economics," the view that tax cuts can spur investment, raise worker productivity and lead to higher wages and a stronger economy at all levels.

Joseph Rosenberg, a senior research associate at the non-partisan Urban Institute's Tax Policy Center, agreed that cutting federal corporate taxes from 35 percent to 20 percent, as the White House has proposed, could increase corporate profits. That could, in turn, spark wage growth, something economists say has been lacking since the Great Recession.

However, "the number is way too large and outside the range of plausible estimates," said Rosenberg, whose research focuses on business and corporate taxation.

William G. Gale, a senior fellow in the Economic Studies Program at the Brookings Institution and former senior economist for the Council of Economic Advisers under President George H.W. Bush, said while it is important to understand this relationship between corporate tax cuts, growth, and wages, the estimates "are way too high and not well-justified."

Both economists expressed concern over the plan's potential to increase the national debt, which could offset the benefits the Trump administration is hoping for.

Gale told ABC News that the report leaves out the outcome of higher deficits, which could raise interest rates and hurt investments.

Both Gale and Rosenberg said a more reasonable result in annual household income would be about 10 percent of the White House's estimated increase, or about $400 per household per year. In 2016, the average household income was $83,143, according to the Trump administration’s report.

"Even that may be an overestimate of the net effect because it does not account for deficits," Gale said.

Earlier this month, Goldman Sachs, a former employer of many current White House economic advisers, told clients to expect a "modest" impact from Trump's plan.

“Overall, the research literature appears to suggest that tax cuts can have modestly positive supply-side effects, though some studies find no effect," the report stated.

A 2012 Obama administration report directly contradicts the current administration's suggestion that workers would benefit the most from such a corporate tax cut. But the paper is no longer on the Treasury Department's website.

When asked by ABC News about the report's removal, a Treasury spokesperson said the paper was "a dated staff analysis from the previous administration" and "does not represent our current thinking and analysis."

Jay Shambaugh, a professor of economics and international affairs at George Washington University and former chief economist for the Obama administration, is also skeptical of Trump's tax plan. He said the suggestion of the average household income in the United States increasing by $4,000 annually is "unlikely" and the evidence used in the report is weak.

"Sensible, revenue-neutral business tax reform could increase growth, but simply cutting the rate in a way that increases deficits will also have offsetting losses for growth," Shambaugh told ABC News.

He cited the likelihood of reduced government investment as deficits increase due to less tax revenue.

The report suggests that the president will use the "$4,000 pay raise," as he called it in a speech in Pennsylvania last week, as the central argument for the plan.

The plan is heavily supported by GOP leadership like House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., and right-leaning groups such as Americans for Prosperity, but President Trump has plenty of work ahead of him to pass the notoriously difficult tax reform. Sen. Bob Corker said earlier this month that he would vote against any bill that added "even one penny" to the national deficit.

Red text for, in all fairness, the GOP seems reluctant to do this. In fact, they're pushing through the severely cut budget now, so they can do taxes second, and will very likely keep the taxes under the budget cuts to avoid the need for 60 votes. But the $4,000 number Trump mentions has only been used by Trump, and cannot be justified by anyone.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

What it is, is an indication that Team Trump is trying to portray Pence as someone worse than him.

It's the only defense he has against the 25th

[Breccia]

The White House prepares to defend a departure from NAFTA by saying that a decrease in manufacturing jobs results in an increase in divorce rate, opioid abuse, abortions, spousal abuse, and death.

[schwarzkopf]

I just listened to an extensive podcast from a legal expert in constitutional law who just spent several months going through every aspect of the Impeachment process and the 25th Amendment and what he had to tell me shook me to the core.

Fundamentally - Trump cannot be impeached merely for a crime, he can only be impeached for what is called a high crime. That is - a crime in which his position allowed him to carry out the crime.

So - for example, if he got out a golf club whilst at his golf resort and beat the crap out of guest. That is NOT an impeachable offense.

The level of proof required to trigger either the Impeach process or the 25th Amendment is massive and unlikely to be met.

So my question is this - at what point would the military consider him such a threat to the USA that they basically offed him and appointed a new acting president ?

[Breccia]

So my question is this - at what point would the military consider him such a threat to the USA that they basically offed him and appointed a new acting president ?

Honestly? Never.

Besides the fact that our military has, well, never done this -- not even Lincoln -- they know, as well as we do, that if Trump really went completely batshit insane, there are checks and balances. He can't make polygamy Constitutional, for example, the best he can do is sign an E.O. saying he won't bar people from federal government office if they have two wives. 49 states would still prohibit it, and hell, probably Utah too. Trump can't abolish the income tax for people making over $1 million a year, execute people for sneaking across the border, or imprison Clinton without a trial.

The only thing that, and yes I am projecting here, the only thing that the military might feel the need to so this with, is an order out of the blue to launch nukes. And even then, I don't believe, say, Mattis would pull a gun and just flat-out kill Trump in self-defense. I think, if the situation was really that crazy, they'd refuse the order, and enter a protective holding pattern until Congress does its job.

Oh, and ask your friend about the blowjob. If lying to Congress is a "high crime" that can lead to impeachment, I think it's quite reasonable that Trump can do, or has done, some things just as bad. Like firing Comey to block the Russia investigation.

[schwarzkopf]

If lying to Congress is a "high crime" that can lead to impeachment, I think it's quite reasonable that Trump can do, or has done, some things just as bad. Like firing Comey to block the Russia investigation.

Yep - lying to congress is a high crime, murdering a golfer is not. Stupid - but that's the way it works.

It comes down to "if it is something ANY citizen" could have done, then it isn't a high crime.

The list of crimes is very specifically defined in the constitution.