Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Zython]

Oh yeah people are getting beat up, panic is setting, racism and xenophobia are on the rise. The usual damned thing in every singular crisis of any significance.

Yeah. Maybe you guys should stop doing that.

China is still directly responsible for this. They undermined their own doctors when patients started coming in their hospitals. They threatened to arrest them and put on them trial. They undermined the response from WHO which crippled global responses, but I'm sure "muh racism" is what REALLY matters.

Yes. Every person in China did that. You've cracked the fucking code.

You know when Trump announced a travel ban from China, at exactly the same time Italy was enacting theirs but nevermind that, Joe Biden and many liberals accused him of racism and xenophobia.

You say that as though Italy isn't currently being run by fascists, as well.

You know why that's relevant? Europe has now close to half the cases of coronavirus worldwide, because for all the herculean efforts of the Italians other European countries refused to follow suite, and even the Italians, to the best of my knowledge did not quarantine travels from China for two weeks...like the US did. Because "racism".

Or maybe Christians are just naturally dirty people?

[Edge-]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...en-outbid-them

Trump to governors: YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN, GET YOUR OWN SUPPLIES

Also Trump: GOOD LUCK BUYING THEM WHEN WE OUTBID YOU, SUCKERS

[Zython]

His job, as is all of our jobs, is to ensure that hold those responsible for this entire situation accountable. I don't know about you but I've got elderly family members at high risk because of this not just in my country but across Europe and just yesterday a friend of mine came down with a bad fever, that may or may not be the virus.

Well, with any luck, they'll die, too.

China doesn't get a free pass on this. They don't get to walk away and say it wasn't their fault because it sure as hell bloody is.

Yes. I'm sure random Chinese people purposefully spread this to personally inconvenience you.

Trump has had many failings on this. Screwing around for weeks because he wanted to protect his precious economy. He deserves every bit of spite for that. It doesn't change what good he did.

There 12.000 confirmed cases in the United States. There over 100.000 confirmed cases in Europe. There are of course many unconfirmed cases in both the US and Europe but you know what the difference is?

That the US isn't testing people for cases?

The United States as a country imposed a travel ban early on from China and quarantined travelers. Europe did not with some notable exceptions like Italy, which was severely undermined because it kept it's other borders open, especially the free borders with the rest of Europe.

You're right. the coronavirus would definitely obey closed borders. That makes sense.

People should hold Trump accountable for his fuck ups. This is life and death for a large number of people, but anyone who ignores China is ignoring the criminals who are directly responsible for this cataclysm.

So you think Native Americans should hold Europeans responsible for the pandemics they spread?
[Infraction]

[CostinR]

Well, with any luck, they'll die, too.

Nice claiming of the high ground by wishing someone dies simply because of their relation with another person since are angry on an internet forum, classy.

Yes. I'm sure random Chinese people purposefully spread this to personally inconvenience you.

This absolute has everything to do with individual Chinese people instead of the authoritarian government of mainland China. Absolutely.

[Skroe]

Honestly? I agree that China's Government is to blame for this mess being as bad as it is. We're rightfully giving Trump shit about putting his image above the actual health of this country and that's exactly what they tried to do on the outset of this bullshit and deprived the world of precious time to prepare itself. So Fuck the Communist Part of China.

But you can still put the blame squarely on the Government of China, without wording your speeches as dog-whistle against a citizenry or an ethnicity.

This is my position. It's why I feel"Wuhan Virus" is the most acceptable compromise. "Chinese Virus" is 100% xenophobic / racist dog-whistling. That's "yellow peril" crap. "Wuhan Virus" assigns the name to the specific place of origin of this virus, removed the xenophobic element and makes it an issue of jurisdiction.

The Chinese Communist Party rules Wuhan. They have jurisdiction to protect the world from this. Instead they did what authoritarian regimes always do. Now they get saddled with the scarlet letter of sorts for their failure to administrate the issue before it got out of control.

It's going to be the least of their problems when all this is resolved.

[Fuiking]

This is my position. It's why I feel"Wuhan Virus" is the most acceptable compromise. "Chinese Virus" is 100% xenophobic / racist dog-whistling. That's "yellow peril" crap. "Wuhan Virus" assigns the name to the specific place of origin of this virus, removed the xenophobic element and makes it an issue of jurisdiction.

The Chinese Communist Party rules Wuhan. They have jurisdiction to protect the world from this. Instead they did what authoritarian regimes always do. Now they get saddled with the scarlet letter of sorts.

It's going to be the least of their problems when all this is resolved.

I can live with the Wuhan virus, mostly because thats where it was discovered/named (Though, im strongly off the opinion it went around far earlier)

[D Luniz]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...en-outbid-them

Trump to governors: YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN, GET YOUR OWN SUPPLIES

Also Trump: GOOD LUCK BUYING THEM WHEN WE OUTBID YOU, SUCKERS

you cant scream at them about how they are incompetant failures if you cant kneecap them before the race to assure they dont finish.

[arandomuser]

This is my position. It's why I feel"Wuhan Virus" is the most acceptable compromise. "Chinese Virus" is 100% xenophobic / racist dog-whistling. That's "yellow peril" crap. "Wuhan Virus" assigns the name to the specific place of origin of this virus, removed the xenophobic element and makes it an issue of jurisdiction.

The Chinese Communist Party rules Wuhan. They have jurisdiction to protect the world from this. Instead they did what authoritarian regimes always do. Now they get saddled with the scarlet letter of sorts for their failure to administrate the issue before it got out of control.

It's going to be the least of their problems when all this is resolved.

what was their government suppose to do to contain the virus earlier? did they even have enough data to act appropriately, would the measures they could of taken be seen as too authoritarian? remember the measures we have in the west are very lax compared to chinas response, im not saying they acted perfectly but some people here are acting like they created it in a lab and spread it to the US on purpose, if anything we need MORE international cooperation for things like these not more nationalism.

[Daelak]

Oh yeah people are getting beat up, panic is setting, racism and xenophobia are on the rise. The usual damned thing in every singular crisis of any significance.

China is still directly responsible for this. They undermined their own doctors when patients started coming in their hospitals. They threatened to arrest them and put on them trial. They undermined the response from WHO which crippled global responses, but I'm sure "muh racism" is what REALLY matters.

You know when Trump announced a travel ban from China, at exactly the same time Italy was enacting theirs but nevermind that, Joe Biden and many liberals accused him of racism and xenophobia.

You know why that's relevant? Europe has now close to half the cases of coronavirus worldwide, because for all the herculean efforts of the Italians other European countries refused to follow suite, and even the Italians, to the best of my knowledge did not quarantine travels from China for two weeks...like the US did. Because "racism".

Because a ban doesn't stop the virus from spreading. If we had true leadership in the states, our president would of declared a state of emergency the day the RNA of the virus was identified. Hundreds of billions of dollars would of been freed up for a sophisticated screening program at all ports of entry by mid/late February, and yes we still would of had an economic hit, but we would still by and large been able to travel and consume freely in the US.

[Skroe]

what was their government suppose to do to contain the virus earlier? did they even have enough data to act appropriately, would the measures they could of taken be seen as too authoritarian? remember the measures we have in the west are very lax compared to chinas response, im not saying they acted perfectly but some people here are acting like they created it in a lab and spread it to the US on purpose, if anything we need MORE international cooperation for things like these not more nationalism and skepticism.

They didn't create the virus of course, but they did create the situation by covering it up months early.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...mber-rz055qjnj

Chinese scientists destroyed proof of virus in December
Chinese laboratories identified a mystery virus as a highly infectious new pathogen by late December last year, but they were ordered to stop tests, destroy samples and suppress the news, a Chinese media outlet has revealed.

A regional health official in Wuhan, centre of the outbreak, demanded the destruction of the lab samples that established the cause of unexplained viral pneumonia on January 1. China did not acknowledge there was human-to-human transmission until more than three weeks later.

The detailed revelations by Caixin Global, a respected independent publication, provide the clearest evidence yet of the scale of the cover-up in the crucial early weeks when the opportunity was lost to control the outbreak.

Censors have been rapidly deleting the report from the Chinese internet.

Caixin reported that several genomics companies sequenced the coronavirus by December 27 from samples from patients who had fallen sick in Wuhan.

There was a striking similarity between the new virus and the Sars (severe acute respiratory syndrome) coronavirus that killed nearly 800 people in 2002-3. But the news was shared with only a small group of medics and party officials.

The laboratory findings were relayed to officials in Beijing at the Centre for Disease Control (CDC). The information should have alerted national health chiefs to a looming crisis, but on January 3, the National Health Commission, China’s top medical authority, issued its own gagging orders. Laboratories were told not to release any information and to hand over or destroy the samples.

When a CDC team was sent to Wuhan on January 8, it was deliberately not informed that medical staff had already been infected by patients — a clear confirmation that the disease was contagious.

The cover-up was led by officials in Wuhan as provincial party chiefs prepared to gather for an annual meeting. The city then pressed ahead with a pot-luck dinner for 40,000 families to celebrate the lunar new year.

Only on January 20 was it made public, in an interview with Zhong Nanshan, a respiratory health expert who led the fight against Sars, that the disease was spreading between humans.

Wuhan,with a population of 11 million, was put into lockdown on January 23 as the communist authorities finally tried to control the spread of the disease.

https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-e...718a5faab.html

Axios has compiled a timeline of the earliest weeks of the coronavirus outbreak in China, highlighting when the cover-up started and ended — and showing how, during that time, the virus already started spreading around the world, including to the United States.

Why it matters: A study published in March indicated that if Chinese authorities had acted three weeks earlier than they did, the number of coronavirus cases could have been reduced by 95% and its geographic spread limited.

This timeline, compiled from information reported by the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the South China Morning Post and other sources, shows that China's cover-up and the delay in serious measures to contain the virus lasted about three weeks.

Dec. 10: Wei Guixian, one of the earliest known coronavirus patients, starts feeling ill.

Dec. 16: Patient admitted to Wuhan Central Hospital with infection in both lungs but resistant to anti-flu drugs. Staff later learned he worked at a wildlife market connected to the outbreak.

Dec. 27: Wuhan health officials are told that a new coronavirus is causing the illness.

Dec. 30:
Ai Fen, a top director at Wuhan Central Hospital, posts information on WeChat about the new virus. She was reprimanded for doing so and told not to spread information about it.
Wuhan doctor Li Wenliang also shares information on WeChat about the new SARS-like virus. He is called in for questioning shortly afterward.
Wuhan health commission notifies hospitals of a “pneumonia of unclear cause” and orders them to report any related information.

Dec. 31:
Wuhan health officials confirm 27 cases of illness and close a market they think is related to the virus' spread.
China tells the World Health Organization’s China office about the cases of an unknown illness.

Jan. 1: Wuhan Public Security Bureau brings in for questioning eight doctors who had posted information about the illness on WeChat.

Jan. 2: Chinese researchers map the new coronavirus' complete genetic information. This information is not made public until Jan. 9.

Jan. 7: Xi Jinping becomes involved in the response.

Jan. 9: China announces it has mapped the coronavirus genome.

Jan. 11–17: Important prescheduled CCP meeting held in Wuhan. During that time, the Wuhan Health Commission insists there are no new cases.

Jan. 13: First coronavirus case reported in Thailand, the first known case outside China.

Jan. 15: The patient who becomes the first confirmed U.S. case leaves Wuhan and arrives in the U.S., carrying the coronavirus.

Jan. 18:

The Wuhan Health Commission announces four new cases.
Annual Wuhan Lunar New Year banquet. Tens of thousands of people gathered for a potluck.

Jan. 19: Beijing sends epidemiologists to Wuhan.

Jan. 20:
The first case announced in South Korea.
Zhong Nanshan, a top Chinese doctor who is helping to coordinate the coronavirus response, announces the virus can be passed between people.

Jan. 21:
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention confirms the first coronavirus case in the United States.
CCP flagship newspaper People’s Daily mentions the coronavirus epidemic and Xi's actions to fight it for the first time.
China's top political commission in charge of law and order warns that “anyone who deliberately delays and hides the reporting of [virus] cases out of his or her own self-interest will be nailed on the pillar of shame for eternity."

Jan. 23: Wuhan and three other cities are put on lockdown. Right around this time, approximately 5 million people leave the city without being screened for the illness.

Jan. 24–30: China celebrates the Lunar New Year holiday. Hundreds of millions of people are in transit around the country as they visit relatives.

Jan. 24: China extends the lockdown to cover 36 million people and starts to rapidly build a new hospital in Wuhan. From this point, very strict measures continue to be implemented around the country for the rest of the epidemic.

The bottom line: China is now trying to create a narrative that it's an example of how to handle this crisis when in fact its early actions led to the virus spreading around the globe.

China's cover-up is among the most consequential in modern history. It allowed it to happen because controlling information is the default mode of authoritarian regimes.

We have an actual pandemic rather than a scary near miss, wholly because of the Chinese Government.

[cubby]

They didn't create the virus of course, but they did create the situation by covering it up months early.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...mber-rz055qjnj



https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-e...718a5faab.html




China's cover-up is among the most consequential in modern history. It allowed it to happen because controlling information is the default mode of authoritarian regimes.

We have an actual pandemic rather than a scary near miss, wholly because of the Chinese Government.

It's truly frightening how close the events of our upcoming Contagion match those of the fictional book World War Z. I know that's zombies, but the source and means/method of the spreading is chillingly parallel.

[Daelak]

They didn't create the virus of course, but they did create the situation by covering it up months early.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...mber-rz055qjnj



https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-e...718a5faab.html




China's cover-up is among the most consequential in modern history. It allowed it to happen because controlling information is the default mode of authoritarian regimes.

We have an actual pandemic rather than a scary near miss, wholly because of the Chinese Government.

They should pay with harsh economic sanctions.

[Clone]

https://twitter.com/mitchellreports/...975802369?s=19

This is from Andrea Mitchell, a fairly credible reporter. I would like to see a pic, but it shows how Trump wants to promote the xenophobic, racist attack.



https://twitter.com/mitchellreports/...356392960?s=19

Well there you go. Just found this, so adding for evidence.

No surprise there. This administration needs something to attack. Trump is already styling himself as a war time president.

[Zaydin]

You know when Trump announced a travel ban from China, at exactly the same time Italy was enacting theirs but nevermind that, Joe Biden and many liberals accused him of racism and xenophobia.

No they didn't.

[solinari6]

China's cover-up is among the most consequential in modern history. It allowed it to happen because controlling information is the default mode of authoritarian regimes.

We have an actual pandemic rather than a scary near miss, wholly because of the Chinese Government.

Sounds horrible, but you can be damn sure that our government would have tried the same thing.

[Ghostpanther]

Some news for those who think Trump is not doing a good job with the Coronavirus......https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ilh...virus-pandemic

Minnesota Democratic Rep. Ilhan Omar unexpectedly praised President Trump's handling of the coronavirus pandemic on Wednesday night, saying it was "incredible and the right response in this critical time."

Omar, normally a staunch critic of the White House who herself has repeatedly drawn the president's ire, went on to quote Rep. Ayanna Pressley, D-Mass., as saying "unprecedented times require unprecedented leadership" -- and, Omar added, "we are seeing that in our country right now."

"Finally, we should never let politics get in the way of good policy," Omar concluded. "This is a great start and hope others will be part of a united front to push for good policies that will help us work through the economic anxiety the country is feeling right now."

Her praise for the president was matched this week by other Democrats and left-of-center commentators. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, on Tuesday, told reporters, “His team is on it. They’ve been responsive. ... I want to say thank you.” And, CNN's Dana Bash asserted that Trump's new tone on the coronavirus made him the "kind of leader that people need."

[solinari6]

Some news for those who think Trump is not doing a good job with the Coronavirus......https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ilh...virus-pandemic

Minnesota Democratic Rep. Ilhan Omar unexpectedly praised President Trump's handling of the coronavirus pandemic on Wednesday night, saying it was "incredible and the right response in this critical time."

Omar, normally a staunch critic of the White House who herself has repeatedly drawn the president's ire, went on to quote Rep. Ayanna Pressley, D-Mass., as saying "unprecedented times require unprecedented leadership" -- and, Omar added, "we are seeing that in our country right now."

"Finally, we should never let politics get in the way of good policy," Omar concluded. "This is a great start and hope others will be part of a united front to push for good policies that will help us work through the economic anxiety the country is feeling right now."

Her praise for the president was matched this week by other Democrats and left-of-center commentators. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, on Tuesday, told reporters, “His team is on it. They’ve been responsive. ... I want to say thank you.” And, CNN's Dana Bash asserted that Trump's new tone on the coronavirus made him the "kind of leader that people need."

First off, Omar wasn't saying his handling of the whole pandemic was incredible. She was responding to this very specific thing, which sounds very socialist, to me:

"Trump suspending mortgage foreclosures, demanding cash payments to Americans, now invoking the Defense Production Act to force private firms to produce needed supplies is incredible. Kind of a shell shock for anyone who reported on any economic policies in the Obama years."

Second of all, governers NEED help from Trump. And they all have learned by now, that the best way to get things from Trump is to tell him how awesome he is. They are willing to suck up to Trump to save lives in their state.

[Kasierith]

Some news for those who think Trump is not doing a good job with the Coronavirus......https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ilh...virus-pandemic

Minnesota Democratic Rep. Ilhan Omar unexpectedly praised President Trump's handling of the coronavirus pandemic on Wednesday night, saying it was "incredible and the right response in this critical time."

Omar, normally a staunch critic of the White House who herself has repeatedly drawn the president's ire, went on to quote Rep. Ayanna Pressley, D-Mass., as saying "unprecedented times require unprecedented leadership" -- and, Omar added, "we are seeing that in our country right now."

"Finally, we should never let politics get in the way of good policy," Omar concluded. "This is a great start and hope others will be part of a united front to push for good policies that will help us work through the economic anxiety the country is feeling right now."

Her praise for the president was matched this week by other Democrats and left-of-center commentators. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, on Tuesday, told reporters, “His team is on it. They’ve been responsive. ... I want to say thank you.” And, CNN's Dana Bash asserted that Trump's new tone on the coronavirus made him the "kind of leader that people need."

Have pointed out that his actions right now are good. He's at least drawing information from the CDC and following what presidents have done in the past to successfully address crises. I am dubious about how much 1,000 is going to actually help people, but as long as it isn't used as an excuse to punt away more meaningful measures I'm perfectly fine with it. It's the three week delay in an adequate response that's the real kicker.

[Paranoid Android]

Some news for those who think Trump is not doing a good job with the Coronavirus......https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ilh...virus-pandemic

Minnesota Democratic Rep. Ilhan Omar unexpectedly praised President Trump's handling of the coronavirus pandemic on Wednesday night, saying it was "incredible and the right response in this critical time."

Omar, normally a staunch critic of the White House who herself has repeatedly drawn the president's ire, went on to quote Rep. Ayanna Pressley, D-Mass., as saying "unprecedented times require unprecedented leadership" -- and, Omar added, "we are seeing that in our country right now."

"Finally, we should never let politics get in the way of good policy," Omar concluded. "This is a great start and hope others will be part of a united front to push for good policies that will help us work through the economic anxiety the country is feeling right now."

Her praise for the president was matched this week by other Democrats and left-of-center commentators. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, on Tuesday, told reporters, “His team is on it. They’ve been responsive. ... I want to say thank you.” And, CNN's Dana Bash asserted that Trump's new tone on the coronavirus made him the "kind of leader that people need."

First off, Omar wasn't saying his handling of the whole pandemic was incredible. She was responding to this very specific thing, which sounds very socialist, to me:

Second of all, governers NEED help from Trump. And they all have learned by now, that the best way to get things from Trump is to tell him how awesome he is. They are willing to suck up to Trump to save lives in their state.

Yeah Kudos to Trump. He actually outflanked the Dems on the mortgage foreclosures. Something Obama never did during the 2008 financial/mortgage crisis.

See Ghostpanther I give Trump praise on a good thing, but I really imagine if Obama did this in 2008 and on, you would no doubt say its their fault for taking a mortgage, BIG government, blah blah.

[Shadowferal]

It's truly frightening how close the events of our upcoming Contagion match those of the fictional book World War Z. I know that's zombies, but the source and means/method of the spreading is chillingly parallel.

Someone showed me a clip of that movie "Contagion" before he told me that it was just that, I thought it was some conspiracy theory dude talking. Then I spotted Jude Law...wtf?