Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Somewhatconcerned]

Agree with this 100%. The issue seems to be that some people think trying to save people will give people levity to keep a level head. Most people are to selfish for that. The country will never come together like some of these people expect them to. We need to keep moving forward asap or things are just going to continue getting closer and closer to a real bad situation.

Yup. And I'm not necessarily saying we need to restart in 15 days, or 30, or whatever. But eventually we DO. A lockdown plan is no plan at all.

[Thekri]

Agree with this 100%. The issue seems to be that some people think trying to save people will give people levity to keep a level head. Most people are to selfish for that. The country will never come together like some of these people expect them to. We need to keep moving forward asap or things are just going to continue getting closer and closer to a real bad situation.

Well gee, if only we had a President that was even making some sort of attempt to bring the nation together, it might actually work. Instead of one that continues to launch infantile attacks on Democratic governors in the middle of a crisis.

It really isn't that hard to bring people together in a crisis. Bush did it after 9/11, and for a few weeks did it after Katrina (Until logistics caught up with him). Hell, about a dozen state governors are doing it right now.

But instead Trumpsters are talking about shooting up banks and sacrificing old people. Which is not really conducive to a calm response to a crisis. It is "Conservatives" who are losing their damn minds right now, and getting people killed. Fox News is bringing out an endless parade of quacks to sell snake oil and provide terrible advice. Anti-Trumpers are the ones telling you to calm the fuck down, listen to Doctors, and we will all get through this together.

[Trunksee]

Well gee, if only we had a President that was even making some sort of attempt to bring the nation together, it might actually work. Instead of one that continues to launch infantile attacks on Democratic governors in the middle of a crisis.

It really isn't that hard to bring people together in a crisis. Bush did it after 9/11, and for a few weeks did it after Katrina (Until logistics caught up with him). Hell, about a dozen state governors are doing it right now.

But instead Trumpsters are talking about shooting up banks and sacrificing old people. Which is not really conducive to a calm response to a crisis. It is "Conservatives" who are losing their damn minds right now, and getting people killed. Fox News is bringing out an endless parade of quacks to sell snake oil and provide terrible advice. Anti-Trumpers are the ones telling you to calm the fuck down, listen to Doctors, and we will all get through this together.

Oh come on, both sides are. Most democrats want a full lockdown. Martial law so no one dies and the government will take care of you. That wont work either. Both sides are so extreme and the democrats cant take the blame for the way they acted causing Trumps supporters to elect him. They have as much blame for this as republicans.

[Draco-Onis]

Yup. And I'm not necessarily saying we need to restart in 15 days, or 30, or whatever. But eventually we DO. A lockdown plan is no plan at all.

But there is no plan every state for itself there's no co-ordination with the federal government to do this faster and more efficiently. Aside from ranting Trump has not managed the situation to bring it under control.

[JohnBrown1917]

Oh come on, both sides are. Most democrats want a full lockdown. Martial law so no one dies and the government will take care of you. That wont work either. Both sides are so extreme and the democrats cant take the blame for the way they acted causing Trumps supporters to elect him. They have as much blame for this as republicans.

Turns out that is needed to save millions of lives.. who knew.

[Cleansing Totem]

Oh come on, both sides are. Most democrats want a full lockdown. Martial law so no one dies and the government will take care of you. That wont work either. Both sides are so extreme and the democrats cant take the blame for the way they acted causing Trumps supporters to elect him. They have as much blame for this as republicans.

Source please.

Amazing that it's never Trump or his supporters fault, no matter what they do and say.

[Thekri]

Oh come on, both sides are. Most democrats want a full lockdown. Martial law so no one dies and the government will take care of you. That wont work either. Both sides are so extreme and the democrats cant take the blame for the way they acted causing Trumps supporters to elect him. They have as much blame for this as republicans.

Haha, citation needed for that "Democrats want a full lockdown" bullshit. Democrats want to follow sound medical advise to keep people alive, this isn't a partisan thing, logical and empathic people on both sides want to save lives.

This is basically the classic "If your house was on fire, what would you grab to take out". The correct answer is obviously always the people, but what has happened here is that people have had a week to think about it, and have started to realize how much they would miss the money. So now we are at the stage where people are rationalizing that Grandma would understand if you grabbed the money instead of wheeling her out. She would want us to be happy after all.

This isn't some world ending apocalypse like people are making it out to be. This is a very severe situation, but it is one humanity has been through many times before. The economy will come back, dead people don't.

[Trunksee]

Haha, citation needed for that "Democrats want a full lockdown" bullshit. Democrats want to follow sound medical advise to keep people alive, this isn't a partisan thing, logical and empathic people on both sides want to save lives.

This is basically the classic "If your house was on fire, what would you grab to take out". The correct answer is obviously always the people, but what has happened here is that people have had a week to think about it, and have started to realize how much they would miss the money. So now we are at the stage where people are rationalizing that Grandma would understand if you grabbed the money instead of wheeling her out. She would want us to be happy after all.

This isn't some world ending apocalypse like people are making it out to be. This is a very severe situation, but it is one humanity has been through many times before. The economy will come back, dead people don't.

If the choice was take the money and avoid being burned over 50% of your body or saving grandma but being severely scared over it I for one know my Grandma would say take the money but that's my grandmother.

Adding to answer something I missed. No this will not kill everyone or end the world, but the ramifications of the actions we take will either completely change the world in many ways. Some of us want to get back to normal and accept there will be loss of life its just the speed and the level of loss of life people are willing to accept.

[Acidbaron]

What I just cannot understand is why his approval rating is going up.

State ran media and twitter followers. Why should this event by like anything else. The cosmic justice in this all is those who vote for him being older white people are going to be a demographic also hit hard by this virus.

People care about the economy more now because that effects them directly when the virus starts to spread and they are struggling to breath and can't get any care that will change.

[unfilteredJW]

If the choice was take the money and avoid being burned over 50% of your body or saving grandma but being severely scared over it I for one know my Grandma would say take the money but that's my grandmother.

Adding to answer something I missed. No this will not kill everyone or end the world, but the ramifications of the actions we take will either completely change the world in many ways. Some of us want to get back to normal and accept there will be loss of life its just the speed and the level of loss of life people are willing to accept.

Imagine being this empty of a person.

[Trunksee]

Imagine being this empty of a person.

Honestly no my grandparents have said this to me. They have DNRs as it is and they know they are in their 80s and they don't have much time left but I do. They are very blunt people. They have already said if they get this they are refusing care because it will be better used on someone with more life to live.

[PrimiOne]

This discussion "What should we do in 15 days" could end up having a completely different face come the moment.

We are playing with lag here.

You press the jump button to avoid fire but you better hit it with anticipation because there's gonna be a big delay from pressing the button to the actual jump.

This is what lockdown measures do: it doesn't do fuck to today's cases...it doesn't do fuck to tomorrow's cases...it takes weeks to show any effect and through all that time the virus keeps spreading exponentially....and so does the fear...and so does the deaths ( because the virus does not kill in one day but in several weeks so at the start - no matter if that start is slow or fast - mortality looks great and then...don't).

Come the end of the 15 days we could be seeing 200k-500K cases ( this is the projection of the curve) in an optimistic scenario and we could be seeing New York health system completely overwhelmed (as many others)

Let's pray shit does not hit the fan ( or to be precise only hit tangentially because it's gonna hit) but this "money or lives" arguments could be obsolete when the news starts talking about how there's not even resources enough to bury the deaths and the fear factor kicks in.

Let's talk about the lion mouth when we see the lion because talking about it behind the bars is not the same thing.

[Trunksee]

I am trying to figure out a few things though based off the numbers that are coming out in my state. We are averaging about 15 to 25 people a day now and still its only 4 people in the hospital. We maybe gain 1 patient a day in the hospital as others recover. Is my states healthcare system just handling it better or is something else going on. The numbers in Rhode Island are starting to spike up a bit faster but hospitalizations seem to be remaining minimal.

[Orange Joe]

I have no debt other than my mortgage by the way. Its the last thing I am paying off right now. Only bought my first home 5 years ago so a bit more time on my 30 year mortgage. No I will not shoot cops nor do I expect my small town to do much in the way of bank seizures if shit hits the fan per say. I am only worried about bank siezures to protect their assets. This is a different time than 1929 and I don't understand how people do not see this fact. If we go into a depression it will not be like then it will be 10x worse.

Why and how? You can't just make a claim with nothing to back it up.

[ati87]

The bad part for Pelosi is that she stated what democrats are for. This is great, for their base...who was already voting for them. Independents are going to wonder why all this stuff needs to be done now in a time of crisis. I know they aren't trying to win Trump supporters over, but you could try for independents...right?

I was remembering a month ago when the msm said this would hurt Trump because he would no longer be able to have events and fundraisers. They said it would really hurt him and ignored what it would do for democratic candidates. Now the people here, on this very heavily biased board will tell you Trump makes a fool of himself every day he is out there. Every day. Every day he is out there....while Joe Biden tries to figure out how to reach supporters in his batcave. But hey, Bernie is out there too......

What I often see is Trump defenders taking a single example of some random said by a random pundit and making a broad generalisation about that specific statement.
Biggest criticism towards Trump early on was the fact that he was holding rallies, not that his reelection chances would be hurt if he couldn't do his little get togethers.

It's the same hyperbole argument you see when Trump apologist keep on saying ''they want open borders'' when in reality no politician in any part of the world has ever said that.

[Orange Joe]

You'll hear the usual drivel about "market > lives" around here but they're too short sighted to realize that a major economic catastrophe puts more people at risk for serious harm than the virus will. We can and should try to manage both.

Bullshit. I just covered this earlier. During the great depressions mortality rates went down not up.

[Trunksee]

Why and how? You can't just make a claim with nothing to back it up.

The way people personally carry debt now is not like it was during the 1929 crash. I am not talking about a recession but an actual depression. The way everyone and every company carries debt now is not the same. Once there is mass defaulting on payments it will be interesting on how these companies come to collect. Also many more people are renting now and not owning their home which will increase homelessness as renters are kicked out by landlords. Just how i see it and it has been explained to me by my family members who dealt with the depression.

[Orange Joe]

The way people personally carry debt now is not like it was during the 1929 crash. I am not talking about a recession but an actual depression. The way everyone and every company carries debt now is not the same. Once there is mass defaulting on payments it will be interesting on how these companies come to collect. Also many more people are renting now and not owning their home which will increase homelessness as renters are kicked out by landlords. Just how i see it and it has been explained to me by my family members who dealt with the depression.

So you think becoming homeless or losing some money is worse than 1000's+ of people dead?

[Trunksee]

So you think becoming homeless or losing some money is worse than 1000's+ of people dead?

No I think 25% of the nation becoming unemployed at best if not worse is worse than 2 to 4% dying yes.

[cubby]

Imagine being this empty of a person.

It's amazing what people are saying about loss of life. And of course it won't be theirs....