Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[cubby]

Uh no, sorry, you're wrong here. And you've been wrong the past few posts. Just stop. Much like with Skroe I don't always agree with everything Phaelix has to say, but he's definitely not some "alt-right bigot" here because he disagrees with how to solve the EC problem. Good grief, people. Let the right tear themselves apart; we should be better than that.

Ok, thank you - and agreed. @PosPosPos, you just need to stop. @PhaelixWW might have some disagreeable positions, but who doesn't, and automatically assuming someone is an alt-righter just because of disagreement is the road to perdition.

We are better than that.

- - - Updated - - -

Your original statement was wrong. @Antigannon showed you this, but you didn't read it -- which is concerning, considering what you accused me of. The above quote is you moving the goalposts afterwards.

I gave you every chance, dude.

On topic: Texas Gov. Abbott is due to give a press conference later today. It might have something to do with four consecutive record-breaking number of COVID-19 hospitaliziations -- each 2,000 or so people.

Texas and Florida have similar death counts, if you can trust the numbers from Florida. For the last two months, they saw-tooth back and forth from about 15 to about 40 and back again. The rolling 5-day average is basically level. Based on comments on local news pages, it seems Abbott doesn't publicly admit the rising cases/lack of progress has anything to do with his re-opening of the state. Florida appears to be the same.

Forbes goes into more detail, and it's...it's bad.

There were 2,326 coronavirus patients in Texas hospitals Monday, the Department of Health reported—an increase from the 2,287 reported on Sunday, which had been the old record.

Hospitalizations in the state have increased almost every day since Memorial Day, when large crowds gathered at popular vacation spots as health experts warned those gatherings could lead to a resurgence in the virus.

In the 21 days since Memorial Day, 17 of those days had higher hospitalization counts compared with the day before.

Case counts and the percentage of tests coming back positive also spiked over the past week, with the 7-day average for positive tests staying over 6%—a threshold health officials there say the state should remain below—since June 2.

On Wednesday, Texas reported its single-day high in new cases, with 2,504; the state would go on to report at least 2,000 new cases for three out of four days from Wednesday-Saturday, after not having a single day hit that number before last Wednesday.

Also, @cubby what are the "cruel and unusual" implications for a state that allows a lethal outbreak to run through prisons? Asking for one hundred sixty-two thousand friends.

Wow...that is just bad, and going to get much worse, because we have politicians on record now saying it's fine and getting better. Since that is demostrably wrong, we now need to hope that a sitting GOP Governor has the intellectual honesty to admit they were wrong and make amends.

Unfortunately, wrongful death lawsuits are going to be legion once attorneys figure out how much money is available because there are no deeper pockets than the government. I'm not sure what kind of immunity the state and federal branches enjoy in cases of pandemics. I'm sure there is a statue somewhere that indemnifies all those idiots.

[Benggaul]

Texas and Florida have similar death counts, if you can trust the numbers from Florida. For the last two months, they saw-tooth back and forth from about 15 to about 40 and back again. The rolling 5-day average is basically level. Based on comments on local news pages, it seems Abbott doesn't publicly admit the rising cases/lack of progress has anything to do with his re-opening of the state. Florida appears to be the same.

As a reminder: Fuck Florida

EDIT: While I'm on the subject, there is some hope on the horizon provided the people in charge do something RIGHT for a change:

Dexamethasone proves first life-saving drug

A cheap and widely available drug can help save the lives of patients seriously ill with coronavirus.

The low-dose steroid treatment dexamethasone is a major breakthrough in the fight against the deadly virus, UK experts say.

The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments to see if they also work for coronavirus.

It cut the risk of death by a third for patients on ventilators. For those on oxygen, it cut deaths by a fifth.

Had the drug had been used to treat patients in the UK from the start of the pandemic, up to 5,000 lives could have been saved, researchers say.

And it could be of huge benefit in poorer countries with high numbers of Covid-19 patients.

IF this turns out to be a thing, we could hopefully see the death totals stay low from here on out.

[Breccia]

As a reminder: Fuck Florida

I think we're going to see this in all fifty: business owners making the decision to remain closed/careful, even if the state allows fewer restrictions. Especially at the local level, a lot of business owners don't want to kill their customers.

[Benggaul]

I think we're going to see this in all fifty: business owners making the decision to remain closed/careful, even if the state allows fewer restrictions. Especially at the local level, a lot of business owners don't want to kill their customers.

Absolutely. My point was that Florida reopened far too soon to begin with. Hell, I'm not even 100% sure they closed much.

[Breccia]

I've been posting polls that are bad news for Trump...so, all of them. But, holy shit.

Biden leads Trump by 16 points in Michigan

The poll also asks familiar questions like "is this country on the wrong track" and "do you have a favorable opinion of Trump". All the numbers are bad, and considering the same people did a poll recently, we also know all the numbers are worse. One of the conductors of the poll attributes the drop to Trump's photo op. However, Trump's promises to Michigan have flat-out failed to come true. Even before COVID-19 the jobs he promised didn't happen. And I'm not convinced "Trump changed our job from making cars to making ventilators because they country is sick and dying" is a job perk I'd list in my resume.

[Omega10]

Pence is getting in on the action now too.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/pence...045500893.html

Title: Pence Tells Governors To Share Misleading Facts About Coronavirus Infections: Reports

Excerpts:

During the call, Pence, who leads the White House’s coronavirus task force, downplayed increases in COVID-19 diagnoses in some regions, claiming they were simply “intermittent” spikes of the virus. He later pushed the administration talking point touted by President Donald Trump that the higher figures were merely due to an increase in testing, not actually higher rates of infection. Data, however, shows that seven-day averages of new cases have increased in at least six states since May 31.

So the title is a bit hyberolic, but well its basically factually correct.

“I would just encourage you all, as we talk about these things, to make sure and continue to explain to your citizens the magnitude of increase in testing,” Pence said on the call, according to a recording obtained by The New York Times. “And that in most of the cases where we are seeing some marginal rise in number, that’s more resolved by the extraordinary work you’re doing.”

Pence is doubling down and repeating the basic Trump position that the problem with the virus is that we test too much, and if we just stopped testing we wouldn't have to worry about the virus.

The downside for people who live in the US is that this is one of the most effective ways of maximizing the spread of the virus.

And of course, we can't forget the spread the virus to Tulsa Oklahoma event that Trump and Pence have scheduled.

Both Trump and Pence are scheduled to appear at a rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, on Saturday despite calls that the event be delayed due to the risk of spreading the coronavirus among the thousands expected to gather at an indoor arena. Tulsa’s biggest newspaper slammed the event this week, saying it was the “wrong time” while noting it couldn’t “see any way that his visit will be good for the city.”

[Paranoid Android]

Dr. Anthony Fauci says he last spoke to President Trump two weeks ago. Other key members of the coronavirus task force — such as Drs. Deborah Birx and Robert Redfield — also are far less visible than they were during the early weeks of the pandemic.

Don't worry people, Trump has it all figured out. With states reopening w/o caution and the protests, we don't need health experts anymore giving our glorious leader advice.

[Omega10]

I've been posting polls that are bad news for Trump...so, all of them. But, holy shit.

Biden leads Trump by 16 points in Michigan

The poll also asks familiar questions like "is this country on the wrong track" and "do you have a favorable opinion of Trump". All the numbers are bad, and considering the same people did a poll recently, we also know all the numbers are worse. One of the conductors of the poll attributes the drop to Trump's photo op. However, Trump's promises to Michigan have flat-out failed to come true. Even before COVID-19 the jobs he promised didn't happen. And I'm not convinced "Trump changed our job from making cars to making ventilators because they country is sick and dying" is a job perk I'd list in my resume.

Here is the crucial excerpt:

Two weeks ago, EPIC-MRA of Lansing, a polling firm that does work for the Free Press, released a survey showing former Vice President Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic nominee, leading Trump 53%-41% in Michigan, a 12-point edge.

But a second poll, started on May 31, a day after the first poll began, and concluded a day later than the first poll, on June 4, showed Biden leading Trump 55%-39% in Michigan, a 16-point margin. As it did for the first poll, EPIC-MRA surveyed 600 randomly selected likely voters for the second one, which had a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

So this is not something new, but has been ongoing. Trump was down 12 points 2 weeks ago, and fell below 40% for this poll. Hopefully the voters that bailed on him will not return.

This is a good sign. And I don't think, and am hoping, that Trump has not bottomed out yet. In Michigan at least, his support has eroded a bit, but has not cratered. It's a start!


EDIT: I read the article a bit more carefully. It's not two polls taken back to back, it's basically 2 polls taken almost at the same time. So averaging out the two poll gives Biden a 14 point lead, about 54 to 40. It's still very good, but I was thinking that the polls were taken over a larger time period. So once the current controversies end, this may turn out to be a spike.

[Zan15]

Oh, and here's something I didn't expect to see -- Sharpiegate.

No, really.



Both Jacobs and Roberts refute the findings, but interestingly enough, Roberts says she took issue with the wording herself, but that it went over her head. Which means she isn't so much saying she was ethical, but that she was told to be unethical and went along with it because she thought she'd be fired. And, Roberts was on Trump's inaugural board, so her loyalties at the time were questionable...and were, in fact, questioned. You're reading the answers.

Remember, not only was the letter saying "Oh, but it could have hit Alabama, all the scientists were wrong!" was unsigned. And Trump believes global warming is a Chinese hoax, and told people at his inauguration it wasn't raining on them while it was raining on them. He has no credibility and no respect for weather (or science in general) and it's safe to assume he'd attract like-minded individuals.

Also, while researching this post, I found this, which appears to be Roberts' response as written May 15, and if so shows her side of the story. Here's the relevant bit:



I find this form of denial pretty damning. "No, that's not what happened" is one thing, "I was being ethical but my ethics were overridden" is another. In fact, it seems like she's agreeing that changing the phrasing to placate Trump's whims was, in fact, unethical -- she just doesn't want to be blamed for it. She's either telling the truth, and that means this got worse, or she's lying, and therefore, did unethically overrule her own scientists. There is no third option I can think of.

I also found this for some reason.

I have no idea why either of these documents were so easy to find. I wasn't even looking for them.

How fucked up is it that we wished this was the worst thing he did so far....just this month.....

[Breccia]

It's not two polls taken back to back, it's basically 2 polls taken almost at the same time.

Indeed. The poll was May 29 to June 4.



So...yeah. The results dipped dramatically halfway through, and the conductor of the poll basically said "well, this was the only newsworthy incident, so it must have been that".

Incidentally, hedge afficianado Sean Spicer said that Trump is down in the polls, not because he's losing support, but because people are afraid to say they support him. That's the "silent majority" thing, which is a myth they made up to combat exactly this. "Oh, tons of people support Trump," the rabid fanbase says, "they just don't speak up about it". They never say why not though...

The rabid fanbase is also quick to say "yeah well, Trump was behind in the polls in 2016 too". But
a) he wasn't as far behind then as he is now, and
b) he wasn't responsible for the poor state of the country then, and he is now.

[Paranoid Android]

As far as the Germany situation, I am a person who is not in favor of military bases and spending overall. That being said, Trump is effin flawed here. He is doing it on a whim and we have had 3 years where he has attacked EU partners. An oh btw, he might be a Putin stooge.

[Benggaul]

Did...uh...did he say scientists came up with the AIDS vaccine?

[Edge-]

Did...uh...did he say scientists came up with the AIDS vaccine?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video...9f5_video.html

Yes, and then tried to clean it up a bit but didn't do a great job. Expected, as all his unscripted remarks are like this.

[Benggaul]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video...9f5_video.html

Yes, and then tried to clean it up a bit but didn't do a great job. Expected, as all his unscripted remarks are like this.

Sure did. It’s how he’s trying to justify cutting PEPFAR funding.

Oh good, I thought maybe the lightheadedness from not eating much the past 3 days coupled with a cocktail of pharmaceuticals was making it impossible for me to comprehend basic English, but it turns out it's just "the leader of the free world" talking complete fucking nonsense again. What a...relief?

[Breccia]

Bragged about how big retail was last month.

This line is especially worth calling out.

No, retail was not big last month. Retail grew last month. It's still low. We haven't even gotten out of the hole from April, let alone the total drop from Feb/March thrown in. We're down about 6% year over year.

If Trump said retail was big, then Trump lied. Trump is a liar.

[Benggaul]

Here’s my recap. He praised the police for their fearlessness. Didn’t do shit to change anything with regards to police brutality. Lied about an AIDS vaccine. Claimed Covid will just go away on its own. Called school choice, read tax rebates for rich folks, the civil rights issue of the decade. Bragged about how big retail was last month, ignoring what it looked like in April. And paid lip service to the confederacy.

So it was basically a test run for Saturday.

Yeah, I don't watch him anymore so I just pick up transcripts here and there...the Executive Order he said he's signing is absolutely meaningless. "I'm banning chokeholds (except if the officer feels his life is in danger)!" is essentially the same parameters under which they're used today. This was just another photo op--with a bunch of cops around him. So I'm sure this'll go over well.

[Zaydin]

Did...uh...did he say scientists came up with the AIDS vaccine?

Yep. Fatty is losing it and his family really should stick him in a home somewhere by now.

[Thepersona]

This line is especially worth calling out.

No, retail was not big last month. Retail grew last month. It's still low. We haven't even gotten out of the hole from April, let alone the total drop from Feb/March thrown in. We're down about 6% year over year.

If Trump said retail was big, then Trump lied. Trump is a liar.

And remember, lockdowns may still be a thing in the coming weeks

[Breccia]

I deal with these incredible scientists, doctors very, very closely. I have great respect for their minds and they have come up with things. They’ve come up with many other cures, and therapeutics over the years. These are the... best, the smartest, most brilliant anywhere. And they’ve come up with the AIDS vaccine... or the AIDS.. as you know, there’s various things and now various companies are involved… but the therapeutic for AIDS... AIDS was a death sentence, and now people live a life with a pill. It’s an incredible thing,

-- Not My President

He immediately realized he done fucked up, but tried to move on instead of correcting himself or apologizing. "And they've come up with the AIDS vaccine...not vaccine, sorry, bit of wishful thinking there. But treatment and therapy, that helps even people with HIV or AIDS live full, productive lives with their supporting families..."

[Benggaul]

And remember, lockdowns may still be a thing in the coming weeks

I've been catching up with some of the news I missed while in the hospital over the weekend and I think they are nearly a certainty in some areas soon. As I linked earlier, several places in Florida are voluntarily shutting down even amidst the second phase of Florida's "reopening" and given that their new case total for today is looking like ANOTHER record I'd say they are just the first of many.