1. #83421
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    "it's political Soros motivated witch hunt"
    I agree that this is a bullshit defense for anyone who also says Trump should get a free pass because political.

  2. #83422
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I agree that this is a bullshit defense for anyone who also says Trump should get a free pass because political.
    So long as this doesn't affect the opinions and actions of the judges and juries for both this trial and any more coming down the pipes to hit Trump, I don't care what bullshit hand-wringing nonsense they claim. Their words of supposed condemnation, concern, and anger aimed at those prosecuting Trump for breaking the law are so hollow and hypocritical that they might as well all be meaningless noise. And they don't possess the capacity for shame required to ever realize it.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  3. #83423
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...on-classified/
    @Breccia, yay more possible charges coming from the classified documents case.

    Investigators now suspect, based on witness statements, security camera footage, and other documentary evidence, that boxes including classified material were moved from a Mar-a-Lago storage area after the subpoena was served, and that Trump personally examined at least some of those boxes, these people said. While Trump’s team returned some documents with classified markings in response to the subpoena, a later FBI search found more than 100 additional classified items that had not been turned over.

    Court papers filed seeking judicial authorization for the FBI to conduct the search of Trump’s home show agents believed that “evidence of obstruction will be found at the premises.”

    The application for court approval for that search said agents were pursuing evidence of violations of statutes including 18 USC 1519, which makes it a crime to alter, destroy, mutilate or conceal a document or tangible object “with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency.”

    A key element in most obstruction cases is intent, because to bring such a charge, prosecutors have to be able to show that whatever actions were taken were done to try to hinder or block an investigation. In the Trump case, prosecutors and federal agents are trying to gather any evidence pointing to the motivation for Trump’s actions.

  4. #83424
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    “evidence of obstruction will be found at the premises.”
    The evidence is Donald Trump, of course.

    We've had bits and pieces of this for a while. We know the footage was taken, we had heard stuff was moved, and we know even the raid didn't find everything.

    This case and the current one share something Clinton can speak at length about: the coverup is worse than the crime. All Trump had to do was return everything and he wouldn't be looking at federal felony obstruction, which I think the sentence is "you die in prison fatass" years.

  5. #83425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    The evidence is Donald Trump, of course.

    We've had bits and pieces of this for a while. We know the footage was taken, we had heard stuff was moved, and we know even the raid didn't find everything.

    This case and the current one share something Clinton can speak at length about: the coverup is worse than the crime. All Trump had to do was return everything and he wouldn't be looking at federal felony obstruction, which I think the sentence is "you die in prison fatass" years.
    Anyone care to place bets on how many more Trump properties they search?
    I say "All of them"
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  6. #83426
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    So, apparently, Cohen's lawyer has worked with Trump's lawyer, and he has some thoughts.

    Attorney Lanny Davis, who represents ex-President Trump’s former personal attorney Michael Cohen, warned current Trump lawyer Joe Tacopina against “building his whole strategy on personal attacks” against Cohen as Trump faces an indictment in New York City.

    “My old friend Joe Tacopina — we were colleagues in the same client matter, and I helped him on his own matter — it’s a wrong strategy if he thinks he’s building his whole strategy on personal attacks on Michael Cohen,” Davis said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

    Michael Cohen submitted a lot of documentation, not only to this group of prosecutors, but to the earlier group. And there are other documents from other people and other testimony from other people, some of it direct, involving conversations with Mr. Trump, concerning the Karen McDougal crime. Remember, there are two crimes here,” Davis said.
    This is probably more useful, more educated, and more effective than my version of which is "Hey don't believe that guy who was my personal lawyer for years, all he does is lie. Remember that time he lied to law enforcement about all those crimes I asked him to do?"

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's a video of Barr saying Trump should not testify, because Trump lacks self-control.

    Barr willingly worked for Trump in the WH. Yes, he thinks that someone who was chosen by the second-highest percent of people in the US to run the US, is not capable of taking the stand in his own defense. Granted, he also does say "generally, I think it's a bad idea" but he does call out his former boss's lack of self control immediately afterwards. "It would be very difficult to prepare and keep him testifying in a prudent fashion," he says, barely able to stop himself from laughing.

    As a reminder, Barr came into the Trump admin late. He'd already seen what Trump was capable of, very likely had already formed that opinion years before, but worked for him anyhow. I suppose the argumemt could be made "Barr was trying to help the US by keeping Trump from destroying it" which, yeah, that's not a defense. Barr intentionally worked with someone he now freely admits in public is incapable of controlling himself.

    That part's timestamped.

    Two other things in that video:

    1) The first part of the video mentions what @postman1782 said. All that discussion we've had on this thread about "does having your lawyer lie to the cops for you, on purpose, count as obstruction?" seems to be heading towards "Yes."

    2) The last part of the video, political person who does exist Asa Hutchinson announced he's running and that Trump should drop out.

    "Contradiction."

    Yes I know, but this does mean we now have three people running, two with no chance and none of them are DeSantis.

  7. #83427
    Bill Barr huh? This motherfucker is really playing that game as the impartial good ole AG.

    “Ultimately Mr. Bragg decided that the case Mark [Pomerantz] was presenting him after I left in January 2022 was not a case he felt comfortable going forward on at that time."

    Former Manhattan DA Vance talks to jrpsaki about the hand off to DA Bragg.


    Vid embedded

    So I'm not sure how much of a story this is and if Vance really is instituting that Barr did squash an infestation. He says it, but damn!

    Also I wish I could find tweet/source but Barr I think in a Fox interview stated he never was asked to interfere or stop and investigation by Trump. So he is lying or we must put our trust in Barr and Trump that they were legit all this time. Umm, oh didn't Trump cry that Barr wouldn't interfere with the election in so many ways. So I think that kills Barr's claims right there..
    "You think you just fell out of a coconut tree?’

  8. #83428
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    Barr also actively defended and prevented Trump from being prosecuted while he was in office. So Barr knew full well that Trump was not fit to be President for multiple reasons and still made sure he could continue to cause damage until Biden was inaugurated. It's incredibly frustrating knowing that once again Barr has gotten to ratfuck America for a Republican President consequence free.

  9. #83429
    Barr literally solicited for the job of AG by writing an opinion piece detailing how the President (Trump) could never be prosecuted. The notion that Barr would squash an investigation into Trump isn't just conjecture, its historical fact. He literally did it to the Mueller report, going to far as to get Mueller to publicly comment that Barr was misreporting (lying about) the conclusions of his report.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  10. #83430
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Ever see a movie, see a TV show, or play a video game where a character gets a redemption arc they didn't deserve? Kayaba from Sword Art Online, Merle from the Walking Dead, Sylvanas? Also, remember when Darth Vader watched Alderan explode after personally murdering a bunch of children, and a bunch of jedi?

    Matter of opinion of course, but sometimes, it's just not enough. Redemption is not for everyone.

    With that out of the way, ladies and gentlemen, Chris Christie.

    Christie, who along with DeSantis is among the possible 2024 contenders who could challenge Trump in a GOP primary, said the Florida governor’s suggestion was moot because the defendant, Trump, wasn’t seeking such a protection.

    “I think it’s interesting that someone says they’re going to refuse to extradite someone who’s not asking,” Christie said. “I mean, Trump and his lawyers are negotiating a voluntary surrender, which is what they should do. It’s the responsible thing to do. And Ron DeSantis comes out and says, ‘I won’t extradite him.’ Well, who the hell asked you?” Christie said.

    “The governor has no role, has no role in this, particularly when the defendant doesn’t want him to have a role in it, right?” Christie said. “So, like, the defendant’s not being asked to be defended, but he’s jumping to his defense because he knows it’s a no-cost position on the substance.”
    Now Christie is right -- DeSantis is grandstanding, knowing it will not be his problem. DeSantis just wants the Trump voters.

    Christie, like a select number of other Republicans trying to retcon the last 7+ years, is calling out his bullshit. Good for him. Doesn't change the fact that he helped Trump get elected and he did it on purpose. He does not get a padawan on the back for that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Feds say online chatter of a Trump protest in NY is nothing like that seen before January 6

    "Wait, like nothing seen before? That's Trump talk! It's going to be a massive turnout! Massive! MAGA!"

    Um...no.

    Any signs of a spike in violent rhetoric or evolving potential threats are filtered through federal channels at the Department of Homeland Security and FBI, which are in regular contact with the New York Police Department as it makes security preparations for Trump’s arraignment in a Manhattan courthouse, a senior US official familiar with the planning told CNN.

    We’re definitely not ruling anything out and staying vigilant,” the official told CNN. “But we don’t see any active specific, credible plotting.”
    Surprising nobody. Well, maybe Greene and that dude in the rat costume.

    Simply put, the Trump-supporting terrorists who would have used violence to keep Trump out of the hands of the law, are already in prison from their actions Jan 6th. They blew all their cooldowns on Phase 1, because their stats and rotations were too weak to keep up, now they're out of everything.

    "Happens to a lot of guys."

    I've...heard that, but it's never been my issue.

    To be fair, there might still be something...but it's not the disorganized LARPers saying "hey, how about if we provide evidence of our crimes in public?" like last time. And quite frankly, springing Trump is a dumb fucking move. You think he'll ride off, and you'll Butch and Sundance into the sunset? Trump, with no money or resources, in hiding? If that was the case, he'd be in Saudi Arabia or Russia by now. Or North Korea. Or, hell, France. France would extradite, but at least they have the best prostitutes.

    "So it's stuff we all already guessed. Why post this?"

    One, a federal statement like this is just more official than an anonymous asshole like myself theorizing, even if I turned out to be right.

    Two:

    “Remember what happened last time Trump called for a protest? He threw everyone under the bus,” reads a post shared on a Telegram channel of the far-right Proud Boys group.
    Yeah, that's the Proud Boys finally admitting what everyone else has known for decades. The people important to Donald Trump are (a) Donald Trump. Everyone else is expendable.

  11. #83431
    https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/03/polit...ork/index.html

    Trump's on his way to New York from Florida. This trial will be the biggest media circus in the history of mankind..

  12. #83432
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    This trial will be the biggest media circus in the history of mankind..
    Until the next one(s).

    Trump had better hope that this isn't just blood in the water for the other investigations that didn't want the notoriety of being the first to charge a former president like this.

  13. #83433
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/03/polit...ork/index.html

    Trump's on his way to New York from Florida. This trial will be the biggest media circus in the history of mankind..
    Trial won't be for ages.

    Reminder: Ken Paxton, AG of Texas, was indicted by the feds in 2015. He won re-election as AG in 2022, and still remains under indictment.

  14. #83434
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Trump had better hope that this isn't just blood in the water for the other inv--
    Trump had better hope he doesn't get gag ordered.

    Donald Trump could get 'narrowly tailored' gag order

    A gag order is a decision by a judge in a criminal or civil case that blocks a party, including lawyers and witnesses, from discussing anything about the case. While Trump's indictment remains sealed until Tuesday afternoon, the charges pertain to Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s investigation into hush money payments Trump made in 2016 to allegedly hide an affair with porn star Stormy Daniels.

    Violations of gag orders in New York carry a punishment of up to a $1,000 fine and up to 30 days in prison. However, it's unclear at this point whether such an order will be given and what constraints would be put on the former president.

    "I do think it is possible that the judge issues a narrowly tailored gag order, given the former president’s propensity to speak out on social media and other platforms," former Manhattan federal prosecutor Sarah Krissoff of Day Pitney LLP told the Washington Examiner.

    "Trump’s camp will most certainly fight such an order, so I anticipate that we may see litigation about this as one of the first orders of business," Krissoff added.
    Considering Trump has already "tweeted" (is he verified? Did he pay dogecoin to himself?) not-so-veiled threats against Bragg. The Washington Examiner is not the only place I saw discussing a gag order, it's just the furthest right.

    Trump is expected to hold a rally at Mar-a-Lago and any gag order given would be broken in a manner of seconds. Barr is an ethicless shitbag disguised as a human being, but he was right that Trump can't control himself. And yet, actions he's already taken in public suggest such a thing is realistic.

    As for emboldening the other investigations, we're seeing sparks of hope on that. McDougal is making the news, for example, so are the Mar-a-Lago obstruction issues. And let's not forget about Georgia. Last we heard, Trump asked for the grand jury's report to be thrown out and a judge asked prosecutors to respond to that. Near as I can tell, they haven't...yet. They were told they had a month, March 28th. They will respond. But that has been in motion for a while, I don't know if "blood in the water" counts there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Trial won't be for ages.
    This case needs to be different.

    One, this is about election interference, caused by Donald Trump personally. (Trump has called mean stories about him election interference, therefore, it's also election interference if he hides mean stories about himself. Oh, plus campaign finance violations and related fraud) Issues involving rigging an election really need to be decided before the next one.

    Two, we already know from President Clinton that you can be yanked out of the WH to handle trials.

    This is why I'm hoping @s_bushido is right. If the trial is put back past 2024's election, it might as well not happen at all. But he can't fight off multiple trials all at once. He's DeSantis, not Disney.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And I thought old people liked tapioca.

    Trump hires new lead counsel for Manhattan district attorney case

    Emphasis mine.

    Blanche’s hiring has been seen by some inside Trump’s orbit as a sidelining of Tacopina, who up until this point has been one of the most forward-facing attorney’s dealing with Trump’s defense. However, a senior adviser to Trump pushed back on that characterization and said the addition of Blanche was intended to add more legal firepower to Trump’s defense.

    When pressed by CNN's Kaitlan Collins on Friday if Tacopina was the right lawyer in New York to take Trump to trial, another lawyer representing the former president, Tim Parlatore, pointed to a potential conflict of interest.

    “I know that Joe has certain potential conflict issues, given his prior contacts, with Stormy Daniels. So, who's the right attorney, to take it to trial, is something that the client will have to decide. Ultimately, the decision of who to stand next to, before a jury, is a decision that only the client can make,” Parlatore said.
    Blanche, a highly appropriate name for a lawyer defending a white supremacist, has represented Manafort and used to work with Giuliani. This is bad news for Trump. This doesn't seem to be a hiring based on skill or record, this seems to be a hiring of someone he remembered from a party one time and laughed at his jokes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So...caption this picture. Correct answers only.



    That's Trump, on his way to his airplane, so a few hours ago. I don't think that's the face of a man excited for the chance to clear his name. That looks like someone worried, maybe scared.

    EDIT: Also, um...that seat next to him is empty. Where's Melania?

  15. #83435
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    EDIT: Also, um...that seat next to him is empty. Where's Melania?
    You mean the woman that's been avoiding him as much as possible, sleeping in a separate room, in a separate wing of their house? Probably spending time with their son, the only Trump she seems to have genuine affection for now.

  16. #83436
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Um...I mean, I knew that! Tooooooootally knew that. Yeah.

    Either way, still giving Trump credit for not starting WWIII which in this case means not nuking anyone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Manhattan Trump whore money grand jury unlikely to meet again on the issue until later in April.



    Okay, the case has been going on for a while, there's a scheduled break, I completely understand that.

    The grand jury pausing the Trump case, to hear another case, then go back to the Trump case?

    I'm going to need @cubby on this one. Hey cubby, that other case they're going to hear? Can we assume from context that it's a related case? Like, now someone else is being added to the list of targets, or another crime related to the whore payment is being discussed? Or could this be a random, unrelated case and Bragg just needed people?
    If they are halting one case while in mid-review to go and look at another, that new case almost certainly involves some pieces of the old one - how they interrelate is the big question. It could be going after another target because the initial case pointed heavily in that direction, or it could be that the initial case evidence in review led the Grand Jury to other crimes, OR, to other crimes already being investigated and related.

    No matter - it's good news for those looking to see Trump held accountable for his actions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Oh, hold on, will they get DNA from this that could be used in the Carroll case? @cubby if you could stop dancing in the streets for like five seconds, is that kind of thing allowed?
    God-damn my legs are tired....

    DNA obtained from a lawful arrest and arraignment is 100% legal to use in another criminal case where DNA was sought. The analogy would be if someone were applying for a federal job, and had to be fingerprinted for it (and DNA'd now). Those materials could be used against them later, in a match when law enforcement officials ran a future unknown sample.

  17. #83437
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    God-damn my legs are tired....
    Wait, are...are you actually tired of winning? OH YE GODS NO

  18. #83438
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    EDIT: Also, um...that seat next to him is empty. Where's Melania?
    Melania is staying at a country club in NYC while he gets indicted, fingerprinted, DNA tested, and arraigned.

    https://twitter.com/williamlegate/st...87980469194754

    - - - Updated - - -

    No cameras permitted in court for Trump's arraignment, per judges orders. A few journalists will be allowed in to take still photos til the arraignment starts. Cameras will be allowed in the hallways, but not laptops or phones will be allowed during the trial. It was just released, so no article yet. Don't even have a clue where to look for the court order.

  19. #83439
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    So...caption this picture. Correct answers only.



    That's Trump, on his way to his airplane, so a few hours ago. I don't think that's the face of a man excited for the chance to clear his name. That looks like someone worried, maybe scared.

    EDIT: Also, um...that seat next to him is empty. Where's Melania?
    That hand is so tiny. Giving MODOK realness.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-04-04 at 08:29 AM.

  20. #83440
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    DNA obtained from a lawful arrest and arraignment is 100% legal to use in another criminal case where DNA was sought. The analogy would be if someone were applying for a federal job, and had to be fingerprinted for it (and DNA'd now). Those materials could be used against them later, in a match when law enforcement officials ran a future unknown sample.
    I'm pretty sure the Carroll case is a civil one, not a criminal one. He's on the hook for defamation, not for rape. Does the same DNA sharing apply for civil cases?

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