Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Trump goes to SCOTUS to stop the DOJ from reviewing the government documents Trump stole, before the "special master" weighs in first.

In other words, suddenly he loves his "special master" again. All aboard the Bipolar Express, choo choo!

Trump filed an emergency request Tuesday asking the Supreme Court to intervene in the case involving classified records he kept at Mar-a-Lago after he left office.

Trump's legal team asked the court to allow the special master to review classified documents federal agents seized from Trump's estate in Florida.

In doing so, Trump's attorneys asked the court to vacate part of a ruling issued Sept. 21 by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which said the Justice Department could resume using classified documents taken from Mar-a-Lago in its criminal investigation.

“This unwarranted stay should be vacated as it impairs substantially the ongoing, time-sensitive work of the Special Master,” Trump’s lawyers wrote in the filing Tuesday. “Moreover, any limit on the comprehensive and transparent review of materials seized in the extraordinary raid of a President’s home erodes public confidence in our system of justice.”

The unanimous ruling last month by the three-judge panel, Trump's lawyers said, effectively compromised "the integrity of the well-established policy against piecemeal appellate review" and ignored "the District Court’s broad discretion without justification."

The Supreme Court asked the Justice Department on Tuesday to file a response to Trump's request by Oct. 11 at 5 p.m. The court won't act before it receives that response, meaning the lower court ruling remains in place for now.

This has desperation written all over it in Cheeto dust, but, let's not underestimate a SCOTUS with Ginni Thomas sitting on it. Now the 11th agreed with...um...everyone that Cannon's "broad discretion" was too broad. And even Cannon was backing away from Cannon's ruling after she got legally Will Smith'd in broad fucking daylight.

Which is why that last line is important. The DOJ is already reading that material they were allowed do, and can continue to do so for an entire week. Yes, I am concerned that Trump's hand-picked SCOTUS will search for a reason they can protect Trump -- they don't need to, they're set for life, but they might anyhow. They aren't stopping the DOJ for now, but they could be looking for a variant of "fruit from the poisoned tree" to keep the Jan 6th committee from seeing it, meaning Trump will still be objectively guilty of stealing government property but could be protected from charges of, well, treason.

My concern does not yet appear to be shared with the 3 sources (this one, NYTimes duh, and WaPo) I read. Terms like "Hail Mary" were tossed around. And I suppose it's possible that, basically to retaliate for this, the FBI could (if this is the truth, of course) say "The 100 documents we were legally allowed to read? They contain extremely damning evidence, and we have no choice but for the sake of National Security to arrest several of Trump's employees who handled and read these, then lied to us". Or, in other words, "We're not saying we're arresting Trump, but we're arresting Trump, see you in mid-November fatty". If that's the truth, of course, this is not a case to arrest for the sake of arresting.

We'll see how this goes, but Trump seems dead-set on dragging every single word, phrase, and especially sentence in this case to its maximum possible duration. If SCOTUS can find a weasely way to help, I think they will, but if it goes beyond what even Trump-appointed justices are willing to side with, I'd like to see some kind of penalty applied. Contempt is an option, but "we're just going to rule on this now, and we rule the DOJ gets everything" would be interesting. Yes, it'd be a completely nonstandard thing, but this is a nonstandard case, and let's face it, Trump would end up on their doorstep anyhow.

[Edge-]

My concern over him going to the SCOTUS is...the 11th Circuit is overseen by Thomas.

[Breccia]

From Trump's most recent legal filing:

Trump was still the president of the United States when any documents bearing classification markings were delivered to his residence in Palm Beach, Fla. At that time, he was the commander in chief of the United States. As such, his authority to classify or declassify information bearing on national security flowed from this constitutional investment of power in the president.

Now, that looks like an objectively true statement to me. It better be, it was a legal filing, lying on those is a problem

But you will notice it says Trump had the authority to declassify. It doesn't say he did. I have the authority to buy a 12-pack of Izzy blackberry lemonade from Amazon, but that doesn't give me the right to take it off my neighbor's doorstep -- unless I can show I have that order number and the receipt. "I could have bought them" doesn't make it any less theft when I swipe them from the person who did buy them.

I want to say "Trump's lawyers are too chickenshit fucking pussies to say Trump declassified them under oath" but it's not really cowardice. At least not that extreme. They know their client is a highly untrustworthy liar, they personally don't have the ability to verify Trump's claims of declassification, and they're not willing to sacrifice their lives and possibly freedom backing his claims in court until Trump does the same.

[Gorsameth]

Yes, saying "my client had the authority to declassify at some point in the past" is as close as they can legally go to what Trump wants them to say so that is what they are saying.
Of course the moment the prosecution gets to talk they will simply ask "did he?" and it all falls apart.

[bladeXcrasher]

They are really going hard on this declassified thing as if it changes anything at all. They still took records that are supposed to be under archives control. "We stole the Fiero, not the Ferrari" isn't they defense they think it is.

[Gelannerai]

They are really going hard on this declassified thing as if it changes anything at all. They still took records that are supposed to be under archives control. "We stole the Fiero, not the Ferrari" isn't they defense they think it is.

Oh his legal team knows exactly how weak it is, but its all they have left.

[Canpinter]

Honestly think they are just trying to stall as much as then can and hope for a republican president/doj to drop the whole thing.

[Draco-Onis]

Honestly think they are just trying to stall as much as then can and hope for a republican president/doj to drop the whole thing.

They are stalling until after the midterm when Trump announces then he can frame all his legal troubles through the political lens as a candidate. When he wins he will make it all go away, of course if republicans win the house and or senate they will be running interference for him as well until election day.

[Kathandira]

I wonder if this will turn out to be the longest running presidential scandal of all time.

[Breccia]

They are really going hard on this declassified thing as if it changes anything at all.

As mentioned before, they can't defend the current crime and are looking at the next one. Stealing government records is illegal, and Trump has no defense. They're looking at when Trump is charged with mishandling classified info or the other dozen or so crimes involved.

They should be leaning into "privilege" as the Jan 6th panel is on the list. But for this crime, it doesn't matter. Having privileged government records is still having government records. At best, "you're not allowed to read the things Trump stole and showed to people who weren't allowed to read them" is what they can come up with.

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Honestly think they are just trying to stall as much as then can and hope for a republican president/doj to drop the whole thing.

Almost certainly. Which is why Georgia and NYState are critical to this. They might not be #1 DPS in the raid, but they're not exactly AFK, either, and the numbers are piling up. And ain't no pardon coming from NYState.

[s_bushido]

Oh his legal team knows exactly how weak it is, but its all they have left.

Forget about the body count of intelligence assets he might have gotten killed with this breach of security, I'm more interested to know just how many lawyers' careers the man's ruined by trying to represent his dumbass.

[Gelannerai]

Forget about the body count of intelligence assets he might have gotten killed with this breach of security, I'm more interested to know just how many lawyers' careers the man's ruined by trying to represent his dumbass.

I mean, that Kise guy is seemingly the smartest of the bunch. Got that $3 mill up front, then refused to say that Trump didn’t have any more classified documents squirreled away somewhere because he knew it was probably a fucking lie. Naturally Trump benches him for actually having scruples.

[solinari6]

Almost certainly. Which is why Georgia and NYState are critical to this. They might not be #1 DPS in the raid, but they're not exactly AFK, either, and the numbers are piling up. And ain't no pardon coming from NYState.

There's no pardon coming from Georgia, either. That's one of the few states where the governor doesn't even have pardon power.

[Breccia]

I mean, that Kise guy is seemingly the smartest of the bunch. Got that $3 mill up front...Naturally Trump benches him for actually having scruples.

I was under the impression that Kise was less "benched" and more "being used for the upcoming, far worse crimes Trump committed". Kise isn't really into defending tax-evading businesses that I've seen, but he could be ready to keep the Jan 6th's findings and Georgia's election fraud from not only putting Trump in jail, but also keeping him out of office. But you don't send in your star relief pitcher when you're losing 12-0 in the 9th inning. Kise has experience dealing with SCOTUS and election-related cases, and Trump is objective guilty of federal theft. That $3 million isn't wasted...yet...it's just being spent elsewhere.

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There's no pardon coming from Georgia, either. That's one of the few states where the governor doesn't even have pardon power.

Hmm. Interesting. Well, we'll see what the GA investigation comes up with.

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My concern over him going to the SCOTUS is...the 11th Circuit is overseen by Thomas.

About that.

I've "made the rounds" and the consensus seems to be

Bottom line is that what Trump's arguing, for once, isn't completely nutso. It's merely pointless and stupid.

-- George Conway

While very few people think that Trump has much of a shot other than a longshot loophole here, this one section of this one article stands out:

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, who oversees the 11th Circuit Court, issued an order giving the DOJ a week to respond to Trump's application, though he may refer the matter to the full court, legal experts say.

"A week is the amount of time you give when it's not really an emergency," tweeted Steve Vladeck, a Supreme Court expert at the University of Texas School of Law. "This delay doesn't help Trump. At all. It's a pretty big sign from Thomas that even *he* isn't in a hurry, which does not bode well for Trump's chances of getting the full Court to side with him."

Vladeck explained that Trump's appeal is "not *entirely* laughable" but is still "doomed to fail" and "unlikely to accomplish much even if it succeeds." Trump's request is "very modest," he wrote, meaning even if he wins the DOJ's probe would not be affected.

"Yes, this filing goes to Justice Thomas as Circuit Justice," he tweeted. "But for as cynical as I know many people have become, I don't see a universe in which he grants it by himself rather than allowing the full Court to resolve it. And even if he does, the full Court can overrule him."

It does go on from there, but they're all basically "don't hold your breath until you turn orange".

Former federal prosecutor Elie Honig told CNN it will be a "close call" if the court takes up the case. "The Supreme Court typically likes to stay out of messy, political disputes," he said.

Former FBI official Chuck Rosenberg told MSNBC that he doesn't see the Supreme Court overturning the 11th Circuit ruling, adding that Trump's appeal is very narrow and unlikely to affect the criminal probe.

"Probably in the end this isn't going to work out for Mr. Trump," he said.

Former federal prosecutor Joyce White Vance warned that the appeal could backfire on Trump.

"He could well find himself getting bench-slapped by the Supreme Court," she told MSNBC. "One of the real issues working not too far below the surface is that Judge Cannon herself really should not have entertained jurisdiction to hear this matter at all. DOJ has argued from the get-go that she lacks equitable jurisdiction. She made a very shaky finding in this regard. Now that entire ball of wax is sitting in the Supreme Court, and I don't think this will go well for Trump, even though this has been where he's wanted to be all along thinking the court would be favorable towards him."

[Gelannerai]

I was under the impression that Kise was less "benched" and more "being used for the upcoming, far worse crimes Trump committed". Kise isn't really into defending tax-evading businesses that I've seen, but he could be ready to keep the Jan 6th's findings and Georgia's election fraud from not only putting Trump in jail, but also keeping him out of office. But you don't send in your star relief pitcher when you're losing 12-0 in the 9th inning. Kise has experience dealing with SCOTUS and election-related cases, and Trump is objective guilty of federal theft. That $3 million isn't wasted...yet...it's just being spent elsewhere.

Entirely possible, though Don Lemon and a few of the other talking heads at CNN apparently think Trump wanted Kise to lie for him, and when he said “no” Trump sidelined him. That and apparently Kise wanted to take a more professional, less-combative approach with the DOJ and Trump wasn’t having it because attacking is all Trump knows.

[Breccia]

CNN apparently think Trump wanted Kise to lie for him, and when he said “no” Trump sidelined him

I am not saying that's impossible. I'm just suggesting that, if you paid $3 million for someone while the rest of your lawyers were unpaid, you'd reserve him for the case which could literally carry a death penalty.

If Trump paid $3 million for a bench warmer, I will laugh myself sick being wrong.

[Edge-]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...uverify%20wall

Former President Donald Trump publicly said that one reason that the FBI found boxes of classified documents improperly stored at his Florida estate was that federal workers had packed up the White House after his 2020 defeat.

It wasn't his fault! The feds did it!

But documents obtained by Bloomberg News under a Freedom of Information Act request suggest a different story. More than 100 pages of emails and shipping lists between White House and transition staff and the US General Services Administration describe the minutiae of moving the Trump White House from Washington, DC, to Florida, down to how many rolls of bubble wrap and tape, all within a plan signed by then-Chief of Staff Mark Meadows.

One thing is clear: The boxes were packed when the movers got there.

While the records don’t specify what the boxes contained, they provide the most detailed account to date of how the GSA assisted the outgoing administration between January and September 2021.

Except that all the Feds did was move the already-packed boxes, they didn't actually do any of the packing.

So Trumps nonstop projectile vomiting of lies and trying to blame others for his own apparently criminal behavior continues.

[Breccia]

Except that all the Feds did was move the already-packed boxes, they didn't actually do any of the packing.

And add to that, Trump personally packed some of the boxes returned to NARA, and therefore, personally decided which he was keeping for himself. In 2022. That's not something he can blame the feds for.

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Trump loses in court again.

An appeals court on Wednesday granted a motion from the Department of Justice to fast-track its appeal in the special master case involving documents seized in the FBI's search at Mar-a-Lago.

"Having consulted with the Chief Judge, the appeal will be assigned to a special merits panel from the classified appeals log randomly selected by the Clerk," per the filing.

The 11th Circuit in the Wednesday filing also set the deadline for all briefs to be submitted to the court by Nov. 17.

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So we have a bunch of items from the Mar-a-Lago tossing for...some reason.

An inadvertently shared log of potentially privileged materials taken from Trump’s Florida home includes details of his calls as president, analyses of who should receive pardons and heaps of records tied to his many legal entanglements.

Now I did say, anything between Trump and his civilian non-WH lawyer can't be classified and the FBI will return it. Looks like they're doing their job.

But...let's see what else is in that pile, shall we?

Among the tranche of records at Trump’s home were communications about securing clemency for Rod Blagojevich, the former Democratic Illinois governor whose sentence was commuted by Trump after he was convicted for trying to sell the Senate seat vacated by former President Obama.

He also had “internal pardon packages[s],” or clemency requests, for individuals listed only as RN, IR, JC and MB.

Huh. Place your bets? I don't think Trump was about to pardon Jewelcrafting for being worthless in Shadowlands. Or did he spell Kushner's name wrong?

Those materials also included 35 pages of “The President’s Calls,” with the memo noting one from “Rudy,” which may have been from Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani, “that does not appear, on its face, to be related to legal advice.”

Other items included folders labeled with NARA, an abbreviation for the National Archives and Records Administration, as well as a draft immigration policy.

The documents also included some printed emails, including a National Security Council email about the release of John Walker Lindh, an American who pleaded guilty to charges related to supporting the Taliban, and an email from the head baseball coach at the U.S. Air Force Academy to the White House.

“As such, virtually none of those materials appears to be privileged attorney-client communications or protected under the attorney work product doctrine,” the Justice Department wrote, determining that those records ought to be turned over to investigators.

The filter team did find:
-- paperwork for Trump's taxes...yeah, that thing he tried so hard to hide from everyone, he put next to criminal evidence, that alone tells you something
-- medical records (this is what Team Trump used as an excuse for this whole bullshit "special master" thing)
-- that letter from the doctor who said Trump was the healthiest human being who ever lived or who ever will
-- his lawsuit against his own niece
-- a Post-It that said "No". Yes, that's the entire quote.
-- Trump's letter of resignation from the SAG before they threw him out

All told, about 500 of the 200,000 pages might possibly be private, non-govt information. Or at least, that's the filter team's response, from the looks of things. the other 99+% is government property and its classified nature/Executive Privilege is, therefore, irrelevant.

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/homenews/3675413...famation-case/

Trump wants CNN to "prove" that his "the big lie" is a big lie!

Which is more than a bit silly since we've had countless Republican investigations that have turned up no evidence of voter fraud, so it's already been proved.

Also, Trump hasn't proved his claims yet. He, much like Mikepillow Lindell continue to talk about all the evidence they have yet they've never once shared any of it.

If this wasn't so dangerous and pathetic it would actually be a lot more comical. And to think that a great many Republicans revere him as if he were divine.

[Breccia]

Trump wants CNN to "prove" that his "the big lie" is a big lie!

That's not how defamation works. Of course, as always, what Trump says when not under oath should be dismissed as worthless and handwaved.