Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Cohen asks for Trump lawsuit against him to be thrown out of court.

Cohen pointed out that Trump only sued him after it was public he was a witness in Bragg's criminal investigation. The term for this is "threatening a witness".

I'm still the most interested in how Trump's lawsuit alleges that
a) Cohen is lying, and
b) Cohen broke confidentiality

Um...aren't those contradictory? I guess some could be a) and some could be b) but the optics are horrible.

Trump's claim that Cohen broke confidentiality latches on hard to Trump's claim that no crime was committed. If Cohen and Trump conspired to commit a crime, the fraud/crime exception kicks in. Old news around here. So Trump is claiming there was no crime...while under criminal indictment.

Also, Cohen plead guilty. Pretty sure you don't plead guilty in court when there's no crime.

However, I need to quote this next part because of the punch line.

Separate from the witness tampering claim, Cohen’s lawyers – Benjamin Brodsky and Danya Perry, the former deputy chief of the criminal division at the US attorney’s office for the southern district of New York – argued in the filing that Trump generally lacked standing.

The complaint about breach of fiduciary duty should be dismissed, the response said, because most of the allegations were time-barred by a statute of limitations of two years starting in 2018, when Cohen published his tell-all memoir about the hush money scheme titled Disloyal.

The claims that Cohen breached other contractual obligations should similarly fail because they did not lay out express violations of the confidentiality agreement that was itself unenforceable due to its vagueness, the response said.

And as for Trump’s claims that Cohen engaged in unjust enrichment by revealing Trump’s confidential information – which itself is unclear because Trump simultaneously says those revelations are false

Called it!

Cohen’s lawyers argued they should be dismissed because Trump failed to state an actual claim.

Ah, we've heard that before, haven't we? In fact, recently. Besides what I posted yesterday, Trump is claiming there is no crime (contextually false), then suing on the grounds of nothing.

"Why hasn't Cohen alleged criminal witness tampering?"

He might be waiting for this court's ruling first. It would be pretty solid evidence if his motion to dismiss, on the grounds of witness tampering, is granted, and the judge says so in the ruling.

Naturally, Trump's lawyer had something stupid to say.

Michael Cohen is an admitted liar, thief, perjurer and convicted felon. Michael Cohen has zero credibility, and any and all statements made by him about President Trump should be disregarded.

Yeah, I'll keep bringing this up while Team Trump keeps saying it, because saying this is fucking stupid.

*ahem*

Why is Cohen convicted? Liar, perjurer about what, exactly? Because I'm pretty sure he said "I didn't do crimes for Trump" then later admitted he did.

Also, things a Trump spokesperson says in public mean nothing. Let Trump say this on the stand. Let him take the stand and say "I committed no crime." Let him take the stand and say "Cohen lied about me."

Until that happens, his outrage will be handwaved.

[Edge-]

A recent poll says that 54% of Americans believe Trump did a better job handling the economy than Biden.

What planet do these people live on? Trump is the first President since Herbert Hoover to leave office with fewer jobs than he did when he took office.

Because Trump inherited a pretty good economy and he and Republicans basically set it up for covid-enhanced failure. Biden inherited a near-recession and Democrats have kept job growth steady and not pointlessly gut federal revenues during otherwise difficult global economic times.

The average American voter is deeply ignorant of how national and global economies work. They still believe the Republican, "It's like balancing your budget at the kitchen table." shit.

[Breccia]

A recent poll says that 54% of Americans believe Trump did a better job handling the economy than Biden.

The problem isn't which planet they live on. The problem is which state they vote in. It doesn't matter how wrong they are if they vote based on these feelings.

That said, have you seen the rest of the poll? If Trump, a "Republican", has only the barest of majorities in what's traditionally Republicans' best field, it's not great for him about the rest of the polling options.

And it's increasingly telling that the leading candidate for the Republican Party is on trial for rape, is on trial for business fraud 34 times, is likely going to be on trial for extorting Georgia for votes, and could very well see charges against him in the 2024 election for what he did in the 2020 election. Leading Republican candidate.

- - - Updated - - -

Speaking of "Trump raped someone", the jury was just given instructions by the judge and, you know, Trump might be right -- the judge might legit hate him.

Probably because Trump is a criminal.

The judge's instructions included a few things.
1) The verdict must be unanimous. This is where the good news for Trump stops.
2) The judge gave the jury a list of things that count as "battery" which, while not rape, would still make Trump liable.
3) The judge reminded the jury this is a civil, not criminal, case. "Beyond all reasonable doubt" is not the threshhold, "preponderance of the evidence" is.
3a) As a reminder, Trump offered no witnesses, no evidence, and did not testify.
4) The Adult Survivors Act, which means the statute of limitations is basically infinite.

I would like to add that, despite having literally no evidence to support Trump in any way, Tapioca still did closing arguments and...well, at this point, he's a Trump lawyer, I don't need to tell you how they went.

But I will.

Tapioca brought up a TV episode of Law and Order. Specifically, he said because what happened in that fictional show was close to what Carroll said, she must be making it up.

What is the likelihood of that? One in 20 billion? One in 10 billion?

-- no really, he said that

"Um...did he forget Carroll was a NYC TV writer?"

Probably.

"Didn't Law and Order copy real-life cases routinely? I remember they did Mel Gibson 'sugartits' once."

Well beyond that, not only did Carroll and friends testify on the stand they talked about it after the attack but well before the 2012 episode, other women plural had also recounted on the stand Trump attacked them too, and Tapioca apparently couldn't find anything on IMDB about those attacks and conveniently forgot to bring them up in closing.

Due to the PEMDAS and/or M:tG style order of operations, Carroll's team was able to directly shit on that defense in their own closing.

Also, remember how Trump said Carroll wasn't his type? Interesting feature I didn't know before: Carroll was a cheerleader. And she was Miss Indiana.

How did Trump and Melania meet, again?

Didn't Trump used to not just hold beauty pageants, but burst into the womens' changing rooms without knocking?

Yeah, calling Trump out on his lies is pretty easy, isn't it?

[beanman12345]

Whelp, that was quick. Not even 3 hours and the jury is done deliberating on the rape case. Their decision coming in about 10-20 minutes.

Edit - fwiw that doesn't mean they found him guilty. I was once a juror in a civil case, and we decided very quickly that the plantiff was not going to emerge victorious from the trial.

- - - Updated - - -

No on Rape
Yes on Sexual Assault.
Awarded 2 million to plantiff.

yes on defamation
20,000

Lots more for damages.

[Drutt]

No on Rape
Yes on Sexual Assault.
Awarded 2 million to plantiff.

That seems a curious outcome. Given all the evidence was coming to the same place, if the jury believed he sexually assaulted her why wouldn't they believe he raped her? It's the same source of info in all cases.

Still, he's officially a sex offender now.

EDIT: another 3 million in damages, so up to 5 million now.

[Edge-]

Donald John Trump, former Republican President of the United States of America. Convicted sexual predator.

Does this mean he needs to register on a list or something?

How perfectly on brand for Republicans. It's almost like literally every liberal that's been calling him a sexual assaulter since his 2015 campaign has been right all along. How shocking and unexpected.

Incoming fundraising emails for his base to subsidize the $5M in damages he apparently needs to pay. I hope Carroll has endless mimosa's for the rest of her life, or whatever her drink of choice is.

[beanman12345]

That seems a curious outcome. Given all the evidence was coming to the same place, if the jury believed he sexually assaulted her why wouldn't they believe he raped her? It's the same source of info in all cases.

Still, he's officially a sex offender now.

Maybe too difficult to prove actual intercourse, he refused to provide his DNA, but the result is about the same regardless I suppose. One of the jurists listens to Tim Pool apparently, so it's all a but surprising, cause they deliberated very fast.

[Drutt]

Maybe too difficult to prove actual intercourse, he refused to provide his DNA, but the result is about the same regardless I suppose. One of the jurists listens to Tim Pool apparently, so it's all a but surprising, cause they deliberated very fast.

No more difficult than proving sexual assault in this case, though, which was proven. It's all based off testimony of something that happened a long while ago.

I'm wondering if it was some kind of compromise deal by the jury, because you have to assume at least one of them was a Trump Humper and it needed to be unanimous.

[jonnysensible]

Convicted sexual predator.

civil suit tho innit. Hes still a fucking wrong un

[Edge-]

civil suit tho innit. Hes still a fucking wrong un

Convicted sexual predator. It may not be a criminal offense, but he was found guilty of sexual assault by a jury of his peers (lol). I have zero qualms referring to him as a convicted sexual predator for the rest of my life and will do so gladly.

[beanman12345]

No more difficult than proving sexual assault in this case, though, which was proven. It's all based off testimony of something that happened a long while ago.

I'm wondering if it was some kind of compromise deal by the jury, because you have to assume at least one of them was a Trump Humper and it needed to be unanimous.

Seems there was *some* murkiness in her testimony. Apparently she claimed she felt being penetrated, but since she couldn't see it though, so can assume it was his penis, but could assume it was his finger, or something else maybe which is why they couldn't land on technical rape itself.

[AntiFascistVoter]

With his blood in the water, I'm betting many more lawsuits will be headed his way.

Murdoch doesnt like losers. As Trump becomes encumbered with more public loses. Will the Right Wing Noise Machine begin to turn on him?

[Drutt]

Seems there was *some* murkiness in her testimony. Apparently she claimed she felt being penetrated, but since she couldn't see it though, so can assume it was his penis, but could assume it was his finger, or something else maybe which is why they couldn't land on technical rape itself.

Who knew having a small dick could pay off?

[masterhorus8]

Donald John Trump, former Republican President of the United States of America. Convicted sexual predator.

Does this mean he needs to register on a list or something?

How perfectly on brand for Republicans. It's almost like literally every liberal that's been calling him a sexual assaulter since his 2015 campaign has been right all along. How shocking and unexpected.

Incoming fundraising emails for his base to subsidize the $5M in damages he apparently needs to pay. I hope Carroll has endless mimosa's for the rest of her life, or whatever her drink of choice is.

Sadly, apparently to have to register on the list, you have to be found "guilty", which requires a criminal trial. As it's civil, he's only found "liable". (According to CNN, as they were the first channel that popped up that was covering it that I found... Sorry Breccia, I had to use some of your points.)

[AntiFascistVoter]

Will Katinlin Collins have the courge to ask Trump this?

Will Trump even have the courage to show up for his Town Hall after this loss? Does he just hide on a Golf Course for a fews months?

[Edge-]

Will Katinlin Collins have the courge to ask Trump this?

Will Trump even have the courage to show up for his Town Hall after this loss? Does he just hide on a Golf Course for a fews months?

It raises an interesting question: Does CNN have someone found to have sexually assaulted someone in a civil trial on for a fluff piece? Or do they become enough of a liability that it's not worth the hate-views?

[jonnysensible]

It raises an interesting question: Does CNN have someone found to have sexually assaulted someone in a civil trial on for a fluff piece? Or do they become enough of a liability that it's not worth the hate-views?

in your heart you already know the sad answer to this.

saw trump was polling 61% compared to desantis 21% for the next pick. Be surprised if this doesn't give him a bump among his cult.

[Edge-]

in your heart you already know the sad answer to this.

saw trump was polling 61% compared to desantis 21% for the next pick. Be surprised if this doesn't give him a bump among his cult.

Given the support for "grab 'em by the pussy" from conservative men and women alike, probably. He'd better be careful if he visits The Village or any other senior retirement center, he's gonna have older women begging him to sexaully assault them in front of their smiling husbands.

[DarkTZeratul]

Be surprised if this doesn't give him a bump among his cult.

Eh. His cult was gonna go for him no matter what. Sure, they'll be angry that he "lost unfairly" or whatever, but if he won they'd just be celebrating that he was totally right the whole time. It's not a bump if they were going to support him regardless of the outcome.

[beanman12345]

Given the support for "grab 'em by the pussy" from conservative men and women alike, probably. He'd better be careful if he visits The Village or any other senior retirement center, he's gonna have older women begging him to sexaully assault them in front of their smiling husbands.

The husbands smiling because they want to be sexually assaulted next.