Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Trump seeks to move hush-money case to federal court because he was president during alleged crime

Before I begin, let me just say that I know practicing law is a difficult, well, science. I know people like "Doctor @cubby " have to spend years learning the various rules and how they interact, and that there's details and minutia and fine print in everything.

So, yes, I admit, there's probably some backing for this move.

UPDATE: There was not. U.S. District Judge Alvin Hellerstein, a Clinton appointee, granted the request of Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s (D) office to keep the case in New York state court..

The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that the matter was a purely a personal item of the President — a cover-up of an embarrassing event. Hush money paid to an adult film star is not related to a President’s official acts. It does not reflect in any way the color of the President’s official duties

I want everyone to read that bolded part.

A judge had to say that. A judge, a federal US court judge, had to say, in an official court ruling, in an official court document, that paying off a porn star was not Presidential business.

He couldn't, because of the situation we find ourselves in, he couldn't just let that be implied, or assumed, or common knowledge.

He. Had. To write. That.

And file it, forever memorialized, in the records of US legal law.

Paying off a whore is not Presidential. He had to write that. That's on the US's permanent record now, that this was a court case that came up and had to be decided and written down for future use.

@cubby please opine. I'm begging you.

- - - Updated - - -

Trump loses in court for something that I hope is uniquely Trumpian.

So, we all by now know Trump was found liable in court. And he appealed to have the $5 million reduced on the grounds...well, we have a ruling:

The finding that Ms. Carroll failed to prove that she was 'raped' within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump 'raped' her as many people commonly understand the word 'rape'. Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that.

-- the judge

Yes, Trump tried to have the damages thrown out because Carroll used the word rape and Trump went with "But I only sexually assaulted her, not rape, I should get a discount".

[s_bushido]

Yes, Trump tried to have the damages thrown out because Carroll used the word rape and Trump went with "But I only sexually assaulted her, not rape, I should get a discount".

Now if only we could get everyone to introduce him as "former president, current rapist, Donald Trump."

In a sane world, this would have been the final nail in the coffin for his electability among the lunatics screeching about how they're protecting women by demonizing trans people. But unfortunately...they couldn't care less. They'll happily vote for a convicted rapist who violates literally every moral standard they pretend to uphold, so long as it means they're not voting for the other team.

[Edge-]

So Trump is a bit upset he's not getting some of the professional referrals he was hoping for. Don't see this shared yet, so hopefully not a repost.

His former press secretary won't endorse him. The current governor of Arkansas, Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

It seems everyone in the administration with a lick of personal political ambition is waiting to see which way the wind blows just to make sure they don't saddle up to a loser.

Oh, and Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds, too.

Let it never be said that Republicans have a spine and are willing to draw a line in the sand and say, "We cannot support this man, no matter what our voters say. We, in good conscious, must object." which would of course be absolutely disastrous for their political careers so actually yeah that does make a lot of sense.

[Breccia]

which would of course be absolutely disastrous for their political careers

A lot of Trump's employees he picked on purpose aren't neutral, they've flat-out been bad-mouthing him. I'm honestly struggling to name a single Trump hire who is actively endorsing him in 2024. Most of the big names have come out against him, especially those who resigned in protest or were fired for not breaking the law. I think even DeVos fled in terror after Jan 6th.

I am looking forward to the RNC debate where every candidate except Christie tries to imply both that Trump is not the future of their party yet they'll pardon him for all the crimes he committed. Reminds me of something I saw years ago. Even Christie, who is clearly not concerned about losing the Trump base, has to deal with his 2016 history. As for the rest of them, like you said, none of them will have the spine to say "He ruined the country and fired everyone he ever worked with. His adminstration was a shambles and made our country the embarrassment of the world."

[Paranoid Android]

Trump says James Comey's investigation into him was "like a coup"

Vid in link

The projection is so amazing calling this a coup. In the Hannity interview Trump projected so hard on everything the Republicans are trying to achieve. Trump of course calls Dems fascist. Saying that

[Darththeo]

I don't subscribe to this usually, but in general, the fact he is whining about it as he is seems to suggest he knows he is screwed six ways to Sunday.

The idea that Trump is being unfairly targeted is bizarre to me. Three other people have been charged with similar crimes, and fewer charges ... they sat in jail until their trial while Trump is allowed to walk free. All while other politicians are complaining about a two tiered justice system saying Trump is the victim of. When in reality he is benefitting from the two tier justice system. For Republicans any allegation against a Democrat is absolute proof of guilt and they need to be punished severely, while no amount of evidence against Trump is proof of his guilt and any shaky defense is proof of innocent.

[Breccia]

I am getting annoyed with Republicans who are trying to get Biden on something because of Hunter's actions.

The Republicans want me to believe that the Republican lead and appointed DoJ under Trump was somehow in the pocket of the Deep State that wanted Biden to win and therefore covered it up. Rather than the more logical one that the information was not sufficient to go off of and they moved on to other things.

The desperation is on full display. Even the Republicans who want Trump out of the way need to paint Biden as corrupt, which is a high bar to set consideirng how bad Trump was and how much they defended him.

As you said, the accusation is that Biden used his power to only get his son a little bit arrested. That's all they have. By contrast, in addition to the legion of actions and crimes we already know Trump, the man they defended nonstop for at least four years, did, this case popped up recently.

Eliyahu Weinstein, no relation, defrauded investors (well, victims, this was a crime) of $230 million, first in a Ponzi scheme, second in a different fraud while out on bail from his first arrest. He was sentenced to 24 years in prison. Trump commuted the rest of his sentence Jan 19, 2021, effectively on his way out the door.

Weinstein was just arrested again. This time, for defrauding victims with scam donations (EDIT: of first aid kids and baby formula) to Ukraine. $35 million from--

"Why would anyone trust this man?"

He used a fake name. They didn't know he was a convicted felon. The only reason it was even an accidental option was because Trump, willingly, intentionally, sprung a convicted con man from prison.

Republicans are clawing desperately for something they can hold up to the American people (not just the cultists, they believe anything) and say "Biden is corrupt". Meanwhile, Trump's corruption is blatant and public, and he remains the front-runner of their party.

P.S. at no point did federal prosecutors go to court with pictures of Weinstein with his dick hanging out.

EDIT: Hold on, I'm not done.

At the time, ABC News reviewed the 238 people who were pardoned or had their sentences commuted during the Trump administration and found at least ten who were back under investigation, charged with a crime, or already convicted.

Legal experts called this recurring theme unprecedented -- but not entirely unexpected, given Trump's unorthodox approach to the pardon process.

"Trump bypassed the formal and orderly Justice Department process in favor of an informal and fairly chaotic White House operation, relying in some cases on his personal views and in others on recommendations from people he knew or who gained access to him in various ways," said Margaret Love, a lawyer who represents clients seeking pardons and a former U.S. Pardon Attorney, a Justice Department appointee who helps advise presidents on grants of clemency.

"So, it might have been predicted," Love said at the time, "that some who made it through that lax gauntlet were going to get in trouble again."

Gee, Trump listening to the yes-men he surrounds himself with? Another day that ends in an arrest. Simply put, because Trump freed his kind of criminals -- which, yes, includes tax evaders, here's the entire list of Trump pardons on a dot-gov site, browse for the word "tax" yourself -- and not, say, people wrongfully imprisoned or in federal prison for pot, these serial grifters and cheats immediately used their newfound freedom to grift and cheat.

"Surely other people pardoned by former Presidents also got re-arrested."

Okay, name one.

Then name nine more. Good luck with that.

[alach]

And yet somehow, beyond all rational sense, he is still polling at 44% of the electorate.

Biden leading Trump in new general election polling.

I can't figure it out. How much is the 'spite' vote? After everything he has done he should be lucky to be in the high 20s.

[The Stormbringer]

And yet somehow, beyond all rational sense, he is still polling at 44% of the electorate.

Biden leading Trump in new general election polling.

I can't figure it out. How much is the 'spite' vote? After everything he has done he should be lucky to be in the high 20s.

The only thing I can think of is that these people pay zero attention to everything going on, or they've bought into his propaganda and think it's all fake or an attack against him, the one and only savior of the USA... You know, morons.

[Breccia]

You know, morons.

That's basically it. We all see the headlines, but the rabid fanbase really doesn't seem to have any objective measure between Biden and Trump in which Biden comes out blatantly worse. So they make shit up about hugging a child, to pick a random nothing example, and go with blatant falsehoods or opinions based on nothing but their feelings. Leaving aside pro-life, which yes Trump is "better" than Biden at being pro-life, it's nothing but lies and uncounterable opinions like "I think Trump is Americerly."

[Ivanstone]

And yet somehow, beyond all rational sense, he is still polling at 44% of the electorate.

Biden leading Trump in new general election polling.

I can't figure it out. How much is the 'spite' vote? After everything he has done he should be lucky to be in the high 20s.

I take this as a positive sign. McCain got 46% of the vote in 2008. Ya know after the GOP drove the economy off the cliff and started two wars.

Some of the US either wants bigotry, tax cuts or both. That segment looks like it shrank by 2%.

[Canpinter]

And yet somehow, beyond all rational sense, he is still polling at 44% of the electorate.

Biden leading Trump in new general election polling.

I can't figure it out. How much is the 'spite' vote? After everything he has done he should be lucky to be in the high 20s.

If you where to take Megatron, Hitler, that pharma bro guy, the CEO form robocop and a.man who literally eats puppy's for fun and shove them into the teleporter from The Fly, 40% of people would still vote for whatever came out as long as you stuck an R next to his name.

[gondrin]

And yet somehow, beyond all rational sense, he is still polling at 44% of the electorate.

Biden leading Trump in new general election polling.

I can't figure it out. How much is the 'spite' vote? After everything he has done he should be lucky to be in the high 20s.

It isn't a spite vote. It is the fact the Republican party, at least the voting base, refuses to acknowledge that people in their party should be kicked out of it. They refuse to accept the fact the party is a party of grifters, racists and zealots because the base is exactly those things. They welcome those things even though they accuse others of being said things.

This is why the GoP motto should be "Every accusation is a confession."

[Sunseeker]

It isn't a spite vote. It is the fact the Republican party, at least the voting base, refuses to acknowledge that people in their party should be kicked out of it. They refuse to accept the fact the party is a party of grifters, racists and zealots because the base is exactly those things. They welcome those things even though they accuse others of being said things.

This is why the GoP motto should be "Every accusation is a confession."

On some level, I suspect they realize if they kicked out all the racists, liars, grifters, and generally shitty people, there'd be noone left.

[alach]

The only thing I can think of is that these people pay zero attention to everything going on, or they've bought into his propaganda and think it's all fake or an attack against him, the one and only savior of the USA... You know, morons.

That's basically it. We all see the headlines, but the rabid fanbase really doesn't seem to have any objective measure between Biden and Trump in which Biden comes out blatantly worse. So they make shit up about hugging a child, to pick a random nothing example, and go with blatant falsehoods or opinions based on nothing but their feelings. Leaving aside pro-life, which yes Trump is "better" than Biden at being pro-life, it's nothing but lies and uncounterable opinions like "I think Trump is Americerly."

That would make sense if it was true, but I just can't see it. Back in 2015-2016, it was a possibility, but now, unless you literally have had your head in the sand, you must know at least some of what Trump has done because it is even himself that announces it. I can forgive not knowing about the daily scandals, but 2 impeachments, 3 indictments, a riot on the capital, etc etc. How can nearly half the american population not be aware? Hes using the same lines at his rallies as he did 7 years ago, like for how long can a country be being destroyed by the radical left!? The doom and gloom shtick is worn out and old.

There was handfuls of Trump supporters on these forums over the years, they read everything that was written and posted, they are aware of it. They never seemed to have valid arguements agaisnt your numerous wagers, they just ignored them, and sometimes dissappeared. Only they didn't, they are part of that 44%, they have had every fact provided to them of just how dangerous and quite frankly stupid, this man is over nearly 10 years, and they are still chosing to vote for him. If it was Biden versus anyone, that would make some sense to me, but its not, its people choosing Trump. Honestly, at this point, I can't imagine anything changing those peoples minds on him.

I have a theory that a large group of the general population always needs a cult, or wacky religion, a messianic leader, and now I just worry this wont end until Trump finally tells all his followers to go drink the special, prepared kool-aid.

[Breccia]

On some level, I suspect they realize if they kicked out all the racists, liars, grifters, and generally shitty people, there'd be noone left.

There were, and maybe still are, some classic conservatives in the Republican Party. They're likely seething with anger at what Trump did to their party, or considering fleeing the party like @Skroe did.

They're the minority now.

[Templar 331]

That would make sense if it was true, but I just can't see it. Back in 2015-2016, it was a possibility, but now, unless you literally have had your head in the sand, you must know at least some of what Trump has done because it is even himself that announces it. I can forgive not knowing about the daily scandals, but 2 impeachments, 3 indictments, a riot on the capital, etc etc. How can nearly half the american population not be aware?

...they just ignored them.....

...I have a theory that a large group of the general population always needs a cult, or wacky religion, a messianic leader, and now I just worry this wont end until Trump finally tells all his followers to go drink the special, prepared kool-aid.

That's it, you hit the nail on the head. These people will go out of their way to avoid thinking about the shit he's done. It is why they are so obsessed with Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, trans kids, immigrants, etc. It's so they don't let the thought of Trump being a PoS enter their head. Trump HAS to be the guy. He HAS to be the thing that goes against what they fear/don't understand. He can't be a regular person with flaws. He can't be a failure of a businessman. He can't be a sexual predator. He can't be an insurrectionist. Because if he was any one of those things then he wouldn't be the perfect leader for their cause. And in the off chance they start thinking that he is what he really is all they have to do is point to ANYONE ELSE and cry out loud about their flaws, real or imaginary.

[Kaleredar]

There were, and maybe still are, some classic conservatives in the Republican Party. They're likely seething with anger at what Trump did to their party, or considering fleeing the party like @Skroe did.

They're the minority now.

And yet in 2020 I’m sure many of them still held their nose and voted for Trump.

[Breccia]

And yet in 2020 I’m sure many of them still held their nose and voted for Trump.

Many, yes. Enough, no. Despite Trump crowing about his numbers that were far lower than Biden's, I think Trump's actions, obviously mostly COVID, demoralized a lot of these Trump enablists who realized they'd elected a lying incompetent loser.

And they won't vote for him in 2024, either.

[gondrin]

And yet in 2020 I’m sure many of them still held their nose and voted for Trump.

Nah, they didn't hold their nose. They made sure to take a deep whiff of that big pile of shit that is Trump. They enjoyed the aroma.