Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Bakis]

He has a history of not paying his legal team, either, so I imagine she's eating this cost and won't be reimbursed, rofl. I wonder if she knows this.

More importantly he has a history of demanding total loyalty from employees and lawyers.
Yet he offer them none in return. Would have thought they would have learned by now.
Especially since many tend to be thrown under the bus and committing crimes in his name

- - - Updated - - -

In Scandinavian countries, many such fines do scale. Finland has given out million-dollar speeding tickets.

Last I heard the record was $129,544 fine for speeding, poor guy
Think its only Finland though that has those fines in regards to speeding which is sad.

[The Stormbringer]

The media want it to be televised not because they care about "transparency" but because they know exactly what kind of ratings that fiasco would net them. Just like the OJ trial.

I say keep it all behind closed doors. We will have court transcripts of everything that is said and done, so calls for "transparent justice" are empty.

Trump is trying to keep this in the court of public opinion because in an actual court of law it seems fairly evident he hasn't a leg to stand on. I say deprive him of any such thing.

Let's be honest, a large percentage of Americans aren't gonna read transcripts. It has to be going on in front of them, spoken aloud, for them to actually care. Once it's written down, it might as well be a book, and they don't like those.

[Breccia]

I hope you have your coffee ready on a Monday morning, because the unthinkable has happened: Donald Trump told the truth off the stand.

Trump claimed he turned down multiple opportunities to make money during his presidency because, he said, it would be a conflict of interest, and “I have too much respect for the office.”

“It’s cost me a couple of billion dollars to be a politician. Everyone else makes, they make [money]. I said, ‘No, we can’t do that.’ I could have made a fortune. The countries are coming [and saying,] ‘We’d like to build a job and we’d like to have you involved.’ Billions. I say, I tell my kids, ‘Sorry, kids, we can’t do it. I’m president.’ I respected the office,” Trump said.

“And of course, then they made it much worse with legal fees. I have $100 million worth of legal fees,” Trump said. “And they’re doing good. At least I have good lawyers, because you can spend $100 million and have lousy lawyers too. It happens.”

Now the bolded is the true part. Trump has likely spent enough money on lousy lawyers by now to say $100 million is realistic -- as of this Aug 2023 NYTimes article he'd spent between $20 and $40 million in 2023 so far.

I do not believe the first part -- and you all already know why. One of the first things Trump tried to do in office was unload 666 5th Ave to foreign investors, including foreign countries. Here's some of the details. Simply put, Trump "divested" by letting his family run his business, which continued to do business like Trump.

Losing.

Trump is also lying when he blames his billions in losses on being in the WH. He lost billions because he's a horrible businessman. He could have put his money into a holding pattern and either lost far less or broken even. He didn't. Because everything Trump touches, dies.

Speaking of lousy lawyers, neither Giuliani nor Eastman have been offered a plea deal yet for their charges in the Georgia case. Possibly because they're not needed. You can't exactly knock on the governor's door and say "Hi, I'm Giuliani, here's a bribe to break the law" and expect a plea deal.

- - - Updated - - -

I called Bill Barr Dumb, Weak, Slow Moving, Lethargic, Gutless, and Lazy, a RINO WHO COULDN’T DO THE JOB. “He just didn’t want to be Impeached, which the Radical Left Lunatics were preparing to do.

“I was tough on him in the White House, for good reason, so now this Moron says about me, to get even, ‘his verbal skills are limited,’ Well, that’s one I haven’t heard before. Tell that to the biggest political crowds in the history of politics, by far. Bill Barr is a LOSER!

Remember when Trump said he would only hire the best people? Here, I'll remind you, with this article from August 2016.

"I’m going to surround myself only with the best and most serious people," he told our Robert Costa in a phone interview at the time. "We want top of the line professionals."

Are the best and most serious people Trump knows dumb, weak, slow moving, lethargic, gutless, lazy, and RINOs? If so, that should be something his supporters should comment on. Surely Trump didn't lie about picking only the best and picking someone dumb, weak, slow moving, lethargic, gutless, and lazy instead, despite promising not to do that?

Man, with Pence and this, it sure does seem like--

Anyway, Birdbrain doesn’t have the TALENT or TEMPERAMENT to do the job.

And Haley too, yes. But when--

First, Trump called Jim Mattis “one of the most effective generals and extraordinary leaders of our time.”

Now, he says his former secretary of defense “is the world’s most overrated General.”

John F. Kelly was once a great Homeland Security secretary who would be an even better White House chief of staff, “if it’s possible.”

This week, Trump said Kelly is an also-ran who “was not in my inner-circle, was totally exhausted by the job, and in the end just slinked away into obscurity.”

Jeff Sessions entered the administration being hailed by Trump as “a world-class legal mind” who was “greatly admired by legal scholars and virtually everyone who knows him.”

Now, Trump demeans him as someone who “didn’t have a clue,” “let our Country down,” “was played like a drum” and is not to be trusted by Alabama voters weighing whether to return him to the Senate.

And Rex Tillerson went from “the embodiment of the American dream” whose “tenacity, broad experience and deep understanding of geopolitics make him an excellent choice for Secretary of State” to “‘dumb as a rock’ and totally ill prepared and ill equipped to be Secretary of State.”

Thanks, WaPo from June 2020.

Wow, Trump continues to proclaim to the world he hires the absolute worst people. I'd love to hear what his defenders have to say about that, but they won't, because they're all cowards who fled these forums rather than defend their choice of candidate and/or worship. Not that they'd have much to work with anyhow -- it is objectively impossible to line up what Trump says before, and after, hiring these people on purpose in public.

"Slow-moving? Is that really a problem, in this context?"

Trump is a sociopath, he's projecting. Trump thinks other people are fat, stupid, and lazy, because he is fat, stupid, and lazy, but is incapable of non-self-awareness. It's actually part of a standard playbook.

Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) is the technical definition for sociopathic and psychopathic behavior. Imagine ASPD as a spectrum where there is evidence of subtle to extreme versions of the behavioral dysfunction. Sociopaths are generally thought of as a milder type than psychopaths. This makes them harder to recognize in the average work environment. So how do they do it?

(skip ahead)

Vengeance Anyone who tries to stop the sociopath along the way will be met with swift and severe revenge, threats, or punishment. They will use tactics such as inappropriate rage, the silent treatment, intimidating stares, twisting the truth, and playing the victim card to manipulate others into compliance. By this point, the sociopath has too much invested in the deception to walk away. So instead, they push away protectors while pulling in the target.

Projection Here is where things become tricky. The sociopath now secretly turns on the victim to the victims friends and co-workers by projecting the sociopaths selfish motives onto the victim. This completes the betrayal cycle. When the sociopath removes themselves from the environment, everyones fingers will be pointed at each other with none pointed at the sociopath. This sets the stage for the final act.

Deceit Now the sociopath is free to embezzle, exploit, take over a business, and/or commit acts of fraud or felony. Because all eyes will be on the fight between each other and not on the sociopath. By the time the dust has settled, the sociopath will be long gone with whatever money, power, position, or prestige they desired.

I want you to read those last three steps. No, really, read them again, you skimmed them. Actually read every word.

Sound familiar?

I'm not debating whether Barr would beat Trump in a foot race. I'd instead debate that Speed is the tertiary stat least useful to an Attorney General. Barr seemed to go with Leech and Avoidance.

[Kathranis]

Your quote about ASPD lowkey looked like an expansion leak for a new class with tanking, support, and DPS specs.

[Egomaniac]

Your quote about ASPD lowkey looked like an expansion leak for a new class with tanking, support, and DPS specs.

I'm rolling a Void Elf Gaslighter.

[Egomaniac]

Deceit spec Rogue sounds pretty fun.

That's my idea. Why are you taking my idea? You always do this...I come up with an idea and you take it! Why don't you ever think of my feelings?

It's ok. I forgive you.

[Captain N]

That's my idea. Why are you taking my idea? You always do this...I come up with an idea and you take it! Why don't you ever think of my feelings?

It's ok. I forgive you.

The Void Elf rolls a Natural 20 on their gaslighting attempt. Saving Throw time, Deceitful Rogue.

[Egomaniac]

The Void Elf rolls a Natural 20 on their gaslighting attempt. Saving Throw time, Deceitful Rogue.

You didn't forget that I told you about the -4 penatly that applies to a saving throw when I crit, right? You wouldn't do that to me, would you? Of course you wouldn't. Love you.

[Breccia]

Ty Cobb, Trump lawyer that Trump hired on purpose, says Trump will continue violating the gag order until he spends a night in jail for it.

Well, the New York judge fined him $10,000. That’s in a civil case.

That’s not as consequential as Judge Chutkan’s case… I think she’ll come in with a much heavier penalty, and ultimately, I think he’ll spend a night or a weekend in jail.

I think it’s gonna take that. I think it’ll take that to stop him.

That's worth a CNN point, I think.

[Redwyrm]

Trump wants to go to "jail" because he could fund raise the hell out of that shit. And I put "jail" in quote because I don't believe for a second he would go to anything less than a Red Roof Inn with additional dead bolts.

[Edge-]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ay-legal-bills

So I believe I saw it linked recently that Lindell is broke and is having issues paying his lawyers and all.

But wait, there's more!

A trio of top Donald Trump allies who have racked up huge legal expenses to defend themselves from either criminal charges, convictions or defamation lawsuits have lost key lawyers for failing to pay six- and seven-figure bills in a sign of the huge legal problems they face.

The hefty legal bills of the ex-Trump adviser Steve Bannon, former Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani and MyPillow CEO, Mike Lindell, underscore the scale of the criminal and civil charges that ensnare them.

Add America's former mayor and leaker of ink from his head Rudy Giuliani and also Steve Bannon who I guess does manage to find his way out of the bottom of a bottle into a chair to host a podcast for a bit.

[Breccia]

But wait, there's more!

So it's a personal anecdote (and secondhand) and I've used it before, but I'll use it again.

The people who would eventually sell my brother his first house tried to back out at the last minute and change the rules of the sale they'd agreed to. This didn't last very long. The lawyer they contacted to defend themselves said "I'll take your case, but because you're in the wrong and are going to lose, I want $15,000 in advance for what this does to my record".

I'm flat-out assuming this kind of behavior is typical, and that my brother didn't just happen to hear this story from one of the outliers. I can't imagine nobody likes to lose that big that publicly for free.

I think that some of the lawyers Trump collected are loyal cultists, but the lawyers defending those lawyers are not as likely to be. As such, and of course because they know who they're working for, I think as many of them as possible not only jerked up their rates for representing traitors who were going to be found guilty, but also, charged in advance because, well, Trump never pays anyone.

But the one standing out here is Bannon. We haven't heard much about him recently, other than Lindell keeps going on his show. I honestly thought We Build The Wall was settled by now. Why you'd choose to not pay your lawyers, when they are stopping you from going to jail, is beyond me. Lindell and Giuliani have publicly been selling off pieces of their dignity, but Bannon seems business as usual near as I could tell.

[Kaleredar]

So it's a personal anecdote (and secondhand) and I've used it before, but I'll use it again.

The people who would eventually sell my brother his first house tried to back out at the last minute and change the rules of the sale they'd agreed to. This didn't last very long. The lawyer they contacted to defend themselves said "I'll take your case, but because you're in the wrong and are going to lose, I want $15,000 in advance for what this does to my record".

I'm flat-out assuming this kind of behavior is typical, and that my brother didn't just happen to hear this story from one of the outliers. I can't imagine nobody likes to lose that big that publicly for free.

I think that some of the lawyers Trump collected are loyal cultists, but the lawyers defending those lawyers are not as likely to be. As such, and of course because they know who they're working for, I think as many of them as possible not only jerked up their rates for representing traitors who were going to be found guilty, but also, charged in advance because, well, Trump never pays anyone.

But the one standing out here is Bannon. We haven't heard much about him recently, other than Lindell keeps going on his show. I honestly thought We Build The Wall was settled by now. Why you'd choose to not pay your lawyers, when they are stopping you from going to jail, is beyond me. Lindell and Giuliani have publicly been selling off pieces of their dignity, but Bannon seems business as usual near as I could tell.

I think the notion is that they wait for the lawyers to get them exonerated, then don’t pay them.

Or, if they protest too much about not being paid, swap them out for another lawyer, and keep that chain going until exoneration or, as is trump’s hope, indefinitely until he, God forbid, gets re-elected and is given a get-off-scot-free card and the notion that no one is going to be able to call on the president to pay them.

[Gorsameth]

I think the notion is that they wait for the lawyers to get them exonerated, then don’t pay them.

Or, if they protest too much about not being paid, swap them out for another lawyer, and keep that chain going until exoneration or, as is trump’s hope, indefinitely until he, God forbid, gets re-elected and is given a get-off-scot-free card and the notion that no one is going to be able to call on the president to pay them.

That works once. The 2nd lawyer is going to check why you got rid of the first and then demand money up front.

[Kaleredar]

That works once. The 2nd lawyer is going to check why you got rid of the first and then demand money up front.

Well I mean, trump still has lawyers… clearly, they don’t learn all that fast.

[Gorsameth]

Well I mean, trump still has lawyers… clearly, they don’t learn all that fast.

I can only assume they are either getting payed up front. Or are cultists.

[Breccia]

I think the notion is that they wait for the lawyers to get them exonerated, then don’t pay them.

That's an interesting notion, doesn't seem to match their track record so much. Bannon lost his first case and this is his appeal, and I haven't looked into the We Build The Wall lawsuit recently but it sounds pretty dire for Team Trump. Hopefully, their lawyers know how guilty their clients are and do not allow this to happen. We know both Giuliani and Lindell are having fire sales, so, some of them have.

Or actually I guess I'm okay either way, either Bannon gets fucked or the people representing him do, which is a solid second place.

@Gorsameth also appears to have a good point. Giuliani's lawyers in particular filed a big public motion on the topic of "Giuliani isn't paying us". Even cultists loyal to the death to Team Trump who are willing to represent someone so deplorable probably still saw that, and this is a guess I admit, but they don't feel like the type to take that case pro bono. I mean, I know they're cultists, they could do it out of their fervor to the cause, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

[DarkTZeratul]

I can only assume they are either getting payed up front.

One of them, Christopher Kise, rather publicly did. And then, despite being hired for the documents case because that's where most of his legal expertise is, he got moved to the fraud case because Trump didn't like it when Kise advised him to just give back everything the government told him to give back.

[Dontrike]

Trump's lawyers seem to think those giving Trump loans would have kept giving him loans if they knew he was lying. The judge ain't having any of that shit.

In an exchange with defense attorneys over the state's expert witness, a New York judge said that leveling fines against Donald Trump — one of the key issues being decided at the former president's civil fraud trial — is "clearly an available remedy" despite the defense's argument to the contrary, ABC News reports. Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron ruled in a partial summary judgement last month that Trump had provided "fraudulent valuations" for his assets on his financial statements, setting aside the trial to determine what additional actions he might take and penalties, if any, the defendants should receive.

Engoron's statement came as Trump's attorneys attempted to impede the testimony of the attorney general's expert witness. While denying their effort, the judge also rejected their argument that disgorgement, or fining Trump for illegal profits, isn't an option for the former president. "For reasons this court has explained ad nauseam, that view is simply incorrect," Engoron said. "Disgorgement is a clearly available remedy." But Trump lawyer Chris Kise disagreed. He countered that the state has failed to prove that banks would have acted differently if they had known Trump's statements were fraudulent.

Kise then cited Deutsche Bank executive Nicholas Haigh's testimony, during which Haigh deemed loaning money to the former president a "good credit decision." Engoron again rebuffed Kise's point. "Several witnesses have testified that they would have acted differently had they known the statements of financial condition were fraudulent," the judge replied, adding, "I think, to a certain extent, the defendants are whistling past the graveyard here."

[Edge-]

Trump's lawyers seem to think those giving Trump loans would have kept giving him loans if they knew he was lying. The judge ain't having any of that shit.

The patience and professionalism for these judges is immense. I'm just waiting for one of them to finally snap and stop being so polite with their responses.