Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[cubby]

Trump literally told his supporters to get vaccinated ... they BOO'ED him. It doesn't matter how bad it gets at this point. Nothing will convince these people that they are wrong.

And that belief system, where people hold certain opinions, won't change even with contradictory fact/evidence-based information. They will literally dig in deeper and excuse away anything that go against their grain.

I keep saying this, but we are in Neal Stephenson's Post-Fact Era.

[Darththeo]

And that belief system, where people hold certain opinions, won't change even with contradictory fact/evidence-based information. They will literally dig in deeper and excuse away anything that go against their grain.

I keep saying this, but we are in Neal Stephenson's Post-Fact Era.

Yeah, sadly I have some high school friends who have fallen into that trap. I don't understand how, we had the same teachers. We were raised in the same neighborhood and yet so many have drank the Trump kool-aid.

I had to tell a friend constantly that despite not holding a political office before his election to President, that Trump was not a political outsider. People don't care to even understand what politics covers anymore.

[Fugus]

Yeah, sadly I have some high school friends who have fallen into that trap. I don't understand how, we had the same teachers. We were raised in the same neighborhood and yet so many have drank the Trump kool-aid.

I had to tell a friend constantly that despite not holding a political office before his election to President, that Trump was not a political outsider. People don't care to even understand what politics covers anymore.

It isn't about the facts at this point, you are trying to get them to understand something that they don't WANT to understand. Their feelings and pride are all that guide them at this point. To understand anything that forces them to admit they are wrong is a bridge to far for them, they will only bother to learn or understand things that confirms what they want to believe.

A smart man uses the facts to educate their beliefs, you are dealing with people who's emotions dictate their beliefs and who only accept something as a fact if it confirms that comfort. Think of it like trying to explain to someone that the person they love is cheating on them and even if you have them on camera in the act, they still won't accept it, that is the type of person you are dealing with at this point.

[Poopymonster]

I actually really wonder just how extreme a pandemic would have to be to shake them out of their delusions even if their leaders try and play it down. As sad as it is, if it weren't for Trump playing it down, many of these people wouldn't have been against it.

Just how bad does it have to get for their people to just admit, "Yeah, this shit's bad and we need to listen to the experts" even if their leaders are claiming otherwise.

Probably when they meet Herman Cain, Rush Limbaugh, and Scalia.
Don't worry, it's a dry heat I've heard.

[cubby]

It isn't about the facts at this point, you are trying to get them to understand something that they don't WANT to understand. Their feelings and pride are all that guide them at this point. To understand anything that forces them to admit they are wrong is a bridge to far for them, they will only bother to learn or understand things that confirms what they want to believe.

A smart man uses the facts to educate their beliefs, you are dealing with people who's emotions dictate their beliefs and who only accept something as a fact if it confirms that comfort. Think of it like trying to explain to someone that the person they love is cheating on them and even if you have them on camera in the act, they still won't accept it, that is the type of person you are dealing with at this point.

The Echo Chamber Effect, if we can call it that, will continue to erode society and science. Your statement above is spot on. And it won't get any better - because those people are teaching their children the same things.

[Poopymonster]

Yeah, sadly I have some high school friends who have fallen into that trap. I don't understand how, we had the same teachers. We were raised in the same neighborhood and yet so many have drank the Trump kool-aid.

I had to tell a friend constantly that despite not holding a political office before his election to President, that Trump was not a political outsider. People don't care to even understand what politics covers anymore.

I FB stalked a bunch of my, er, friends with benefits I had in my early 20s back when I lived in Shithole, Michigan. Roughly 2 decades ago.
Lots of Trump. Lots of Q. A few Confederate Flags. In Michigan. More than a few "Muslim Obama prayed to Allah when the towers went down while he was in office" or blaming Obama for Katrina's piss poor response...
A majority I went to school with, same teachers, as you said. In a town at the time had 1100 people.
Once you go north of Flint it becomes "The Great White North" as a demographic. But Confederate fucking flags. In Michigan.
I don't know man. Indoctrination in an insular community, fear of being excluded. Sooner or later you might just buy into the bullshit.
The same areas that cranked out the best friend and companion of an amateur chemist. Who hung out in Decker, Michigan and were quite popular locally. About 40 minutes/40 miles from Shithole.

[Fugus]

The Echo Chamber Effect, if we can call it that, will continue to erode society and science. Your statement above is spot on. And it won't get any better - because those people are teaching their children the same things.

From the anecdotal evidence I have seen, it does have a hope of improving if they don't burn the nation to the ground first. While I have seen a few of the younger generation who believes that stuff, I have seen a few who reject it and just don't bother dealing with their parents spouting it and just let them talk while ignoring it. Their parents play into the kids stereotype of being "Out of touch" as their parents really are.

The ones who actually believe it though, either don't like trying to debate it with me because I can mathematically prove them wrong or they are like my brother in law and will still try and talk about it but he just tries to bullshit, shit talk and fight his way through it and pretends that if he can fight them or shit talk them enough, he won. He is the human embodiment of the pigeon playing chess.

[beanman12345]

Trump told them to get vaccinated after spending his entire time in office telling them NOT to get vaccinated and that it was all a hoax. If he hadn't don't that and just was honest from the start (Something Trump can't do) his followers would have listened and did it. TRUMP is what made it political and got it to that point. Once he crossed that line, he couldn't uncross it.

I wonder just how far would it have to go before they listened. At this point, they could have a mutation that has an 80% mortality rate within 24 hours of showing symptoms IF you got to a hospital in time and spread like something from the Plague Inc game and the vaccine as 95% effective against and they would likely still try and make excuses until it him them or someone they loved personally and even then they might blame that person.

If there is a Hell, I'd like to believe that these anti-vaxxers will forever live in a afterlife where the world is just zombies. Let them live in the globalist communist utopia they hate and fear so much.

[Darththeo]

I FB stalked a bunch of my, er, friends with benefits I had in my early 20s back when I lived in Shithole, Michigan. Roughly 2 decades ago.
Lots of Trump. Lots of Q. A few Confederate Flags. In Michigan. More than a few "Muslim Obama prayed to Allah when the towers went down while he was in office" or blaming Obama for Katrina's piss poor response...
A majority I went to school with, same teachers, as you said. In a town at the time had 1100 people.
Once you go north of Flint it becomes "The Great White North" as a demographic. But Confederate fucking flags. In Michigan.
I don't know man. Indoctrination in an insular community, fear of being excluded. Sooner or later you might just buy into the bullshit.
The same areas that cranked out the best friend and companion of an amateur chemist. Who hung out in Decker, Michigan and were quite popular locally. About 40 minutes/40 miles from Shithole.

I have too many that share memes where they don't understand the subject enough to understand why the meme is wrong.

I said "Yeah, this doesn't make sense because of XYZ." and they go "You don't get it." ... no I do, that's why I know it is garbage

[cubby]

Yeah, sadly I have some high school friends who have fallen into that trap. I don't understand how, we had the same teachers. We were raised in the same neighborhood and yet so many have drank the Trump kool-aid.

I had to tell a friend constantly that despite not holding a political office before his election to President, that Trump was not a political outsider. People don't care to even understand what politics covers anymore.

I have seen the same thing with some of my high school friends. Thankfully not too many of them, and I'm only really acquaintances with them, regardless. But yeah, same teachers/neighborhood/etc and they are hip deep in the bullshit.

[Fugus]

If there is a Hell, I'd like to believe that these anti-vaxxers will forever live in a afterlife where the world is just zombies. Let them live in the globalist communist utopia they hate and fear so much.

For me, I would like to have something different happen. A variation of their rapture.

Where the earth has a duplicate on the other side of the rotation potentially, could be elsewhere but somewhere were they can see it from the earth they are on but can't interact with it.

All of the people closely aligned with their beliefs are put on one of the earth while the more liberal and progressive beliefs are put onto the other. Then each side has their own planet to run as they see fit and they can actively see the impact their policies have on their own planet while being able to see the impact of the other planet on them.

Then make it where if a person actually flips their belief, they are moved to the other planet. Not if they act or pretend to have changed, but where they actually have and it out of the control of any human being to impact it. Then watch how things react.

Especially how on the conservative planet the people on the bottom would just be more of their own and they couldn't punch down onto some other group. Would also make it where they couldn't attack each other or any virus or pollution of any kind be able to be transmitted between them.

If there was a god, THAT is what I would like to do to them which would actually make their hell one of their one making in both living in their policies while stuck being able to visibly see the impact of policies they rejected.

[Ivanstone]

I actually really wonder just how extreme a pandemic would have to be to shake them out of their delusions even if their leaders try and play it down. As sad as it is, if it weren't for Trump playing it down, many of these people wouldn't have been against it.

I can think of two counter examples:
1 - Small Pox. Lethal and it makes you look like shit. It’s been around a long time and we wanted it gone. And so we did.
2 - Polio. It attacked children but it was difficult to see how it was transmitted. It’s outcomes were unpleasant.

Covid is relatively benign looking by comparison even if it has a high fatality rate.

[Kathandira]

I can think of two counter examples:
1 - Small Pox. Lethal and it makes you look like shit. It’s been around a long time and we wanted it gone. And so we did.
2 - Polio. It attacked children but it was difficult to see how it was transmitted. It’s outcomes were unpleasant.

Covid is relatively benign looking by comparison even if it has a high fatality rate.

If you consider the risk of, and result in high volume of death to be benign. I wonder if Covid early on affected children, if the reaction to it would have been different. Since it is mostly unhealthy, or elderly people were primarily at risk of death, it just isn't as attractive.

[Darththeo]

I have seen the same thing with some of my high school friends. Thankfully not too many of them, and I'm only really acquaintances with them, regardless. But yeah, same teachers/neighborhood/etc and they are hip deep in the bullshit.

I don't mind them questioning statements they are given. That is 100% fine, but when they discount the answers because they choose not to accept it is just insane.

A friend of mine is literally shared a meme that "Me looking for the Cancer Treatment mandate is at because it saves lives." I screamed at my computer because they don't see that a mandate to prevention does not relate to a mandate for treatment. There is no COVID treatment mandate nor has their ever been. And on Cancer there are tons of cancer prevention mandates (ie age to buy Tobacco and Alcohol products, some schools mandate HPV vaccine, etc).

Mandates for prevention are everywhere. Mandates on treatment are pretty much no where.

Also, the number of Trump supporters who bring up Biden didn't mandate Congress to get the vaccine drive me insane. The President cannot pass mandates on Congress. Only Congress can mandate what Congress does. Biden can merely request, Congress can tell him to take a flying leap in response.

[Darththeo]

Maybe support politicians who will provide M4A if you want Cancer treatment mandates. The only reason people can’t get treatment currently is due to our fucked system.

Oh, she doesn't want that either. She is just using it as an argument on why the vaccine mandate is built on a lie.

Because you know other life saving things aren't mandated (despite the fact they are) and Congress was exempt from Biden's mandate (because you know Constitutionally divided authority.) The explanation doesn't matter.

[Breccia]

Trump swaps tactics in court, going Slippery Slope this time.

The stakes in this case are high. A decision upholding the Committees’ request to NARA would have enormous consequences, forever changing the dynamics between the political branches. It is naïve to assume that the fallout will be limited to President Trump or the events of January 6, 2021. Every Congress will point to some unprecedented thing about 'this President' to justify a request for his presidential records.

In these hyper-partisan times, Congress will increasingly and inevitably use this new weapon to perpetually harass its political rival.

Few things.

1) LOCK HER UP LOCK HER UP

2) Trump seems to be arguing that, since a search warrant could find evidence of a crime when there's probable cause, it might also be used to find probable cause when other people have done it. Um...good?

3) He does know the GOP wants to flip the House, right? Why wouldn't the GOP want this?

4) Benghazi. How many times did Clinton sit there, looking bored, while the GOP read all those documents they asked for?

5) If these times are hyperpartisan, can we at least blame the side arguing the Earth is flat while they storm the Capitol?

Trump is trying to claim that the latest ruling against him let's Congress investigate whoever they want, shutting down the Executive and Judicial branches if they wanted to. Hey, if the Executive or Judicial branch commits crimes, I think they should be shut down. If he's suggesting they'd launch a phony investigation with no motive other than to stall, I point to the Ellis and Eastman memos and say "Self own, fatass, that's some world-class projection."

Honestly, this is yet more shit Trump is throwing at the wall hoping it sticks. Congress has a long history of oversight. A ruling by these merits would end that forever.

[Ivanstone]

If you consider the risk of, and result in high volume of death to be benign. I wonder if Covid early on affected children, if the reaction to it would have been different. Since it is mostly unhealthy, or elderly people were primarily at risk of death, it just isn't as attractive.

Covid looked like just a meaner version of the flu. Something we’re used to and something we can handle. The insidious part of Covid was that it was highly transmissible while the carrier was asymptomatic and that fooled people into thinking it was less serious.

If it was a much more dangerous to kids I think people would’ve treated it more seriously. My dipshit Joe Rogan listening brother is still unvaxxed because he feels that he’s young enough to handle it even if he gets it.

[Breccia]

In a recent election, Rep. Perry (R-duh-PA) was chosen as the leader of the Freedom Caucus. Which means his first move is to...

(checks news)

...catch COVID.

How on brand this is. Both events appear to have happened within 24 hours of each other.

He's 59 and rich, he'll be fine.

There is no public information that Rep. Perry is vaccinated, but he has spoken out against mandates, so my guess is "no". Incidentally, he went from "nobody should be threatened by troops to getting the vaccine, shake fist, shake fist!" to "This is a private matter, there will be no public comment."

[gondrin]

Trump is trying to claim that the latest ruling against him let's Congress investigate whoever they want, shutting down the Executive and Judicial branches if they wanted to. Hey, if the Executive or Judicial branch commits crimes, I think they should be shut down. If he's suggesting they'd launch a phony investigation with no motive other than to stall, I point to the Ellis and Eastman memos and say "Self own, fatass, that's some world-class projection."

Someone should tell Trump that the Legislative branch can outright shut down and remove both the Executive and Judicial branch at any time through Impeachment even if the Impeachment is for something outright stupid. I mean, Trump should know this right? He is the person that 2-peated on Impeachment. Hell, if they wanted too, and the States went along with it, they could amend the Constitution and outright remove the office of the Presidency or remove the Judicial branch from existence, at least on the federal level.

[pathora44]

There is no public information that Rep. Perry is vaccinated, but he has spoken out against mandates, so my guess is "no". Incidentally, he went from "nobody should be threatened by troops to getting the vaccine, shake fist, shake fist!" to "This is a private matter, there will be no public comment."

Are you kidding me? He is more then likely vaccinated just look at Trump, DeSantis, Carlson, etc... all screaming at the top of their lungs that vaccines and mandates are evil nazi, commie, fascist, socialist created 5g juice that will turn all the frogs gay while at the same time they are all vaccinated. Now sure there are some true believers but the vast majority of the GQP are grifters who con their mentally handicapped constituents or those who just ride the wave to wherever their mentally handicapped constituents take them.