The Brexit aftermath thread

[Acidbaron]

Report burners and move on. Not hard to ignore such obvious bait.

[thulgale]

You go first. Please, explain how devaluing the currency would've helped Greece. And since you're apparently from the left, what impact would it have had on the poor?

If you think low currency is enough to reign in investors then I have a beautiful beach property to sell to you in Sierra Leone.

Try googling "how germany benefits from the euro". You do not have to read left-wing articles, any one will do. It would save me a lot of time, thanks.

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How bereft of life must one be to keep making accounts on a forum just to post in one thread? You were banned so move on.

Now, all we need is an Italian and we'll have a full house of former axis powers.

[Medusa Cascade]

Report burners and move on. Not hard to ignore such obvious bait.

Yup, deny them attention and they will give up.

[Mayhem]

Try googling "how germany benefits from the euro". You do not have to read left-wing articles, any one will do. It would save me a lot of time, thanks.

Unable to answer the questions?

Thanks, that was fun.

[thulgale]

Unable to answer the questions?

Thanks, that was fun.

Too much of a retard to type 3 words into google? OK, I'll do it for you, (1st article) from that well-known communist organ, Forbes:

Despite the recent rise of populist, anti-EU sentiment in Germany, Berlin seems determined to fight hard for the European Union and the common currency, the euro. Much high principle no doubt lies behind this commitment, but so also does much self interest. The German economy, most especially the German elite, has done very well for itself because of the union and the euro, not a little of it at the expense of the rest of Europe. One need not be a cynic to suspect that such less principled but nonetheless compelling motivations also direct Berlin’s commitment.

The euro was supposed to have had a universally helpful impact on all of Europe. Its designers claimed that it would give the EU stature to rival other powerful economies, the United States, Japan, and China in particular. All Europe would benefit, they said, from the trade increases that would follow as people and business shed worry over currency fluctuations, while the absence of currency risk would keep interest rates low, giving especially smaller, weaker members the advantage of cheaper credit that would encourage more investment and economic development. The trade and growth would deepen economic integration, give residents of the union a greater diversity of goods and services, and create a more unified and resilient European economy. It has of course not turned out this way. Instead the euro has locked in distorting and inequitable currency mispricings, giving some in the common currency, most notably Germany, great advantages over others.

These problems, in no small part, developed from the enthusiasm that accompanied the run up to the euro. High hopes for weaker economies, Greece, Spain, Portugal, and to a lesser extent Italy, bid up the values of their individual national currencies so that they joined the euro at values far above those supportable by their economic fundamentals. The overpricing gave these governments and their populations an inflated sense of their global economic purchasing power, encouraging spending and borrowing beyond their ability to support such behavior. Meanwhile, the inflated currency values put their producers at a competitive disadvantage. With separate currencies, reality would eventually have forced a depreciation that would have rectified both problems. But the euro, once established, locked in the mispricing.

For Germany, the opposite set of conditions prevailed. At the time, it was still suffering from the economic difficulties of its reunification. Its deutschemark was weaker than its economic fundamentals could otherwise have supported. Once that value was locked into the euro, German consumers acquired a deflated sense of their global buying power and so proceeded more cautiously than others in Europe. German producers meanwhile discovered that the euro had effectively locked in pricing for their goods and services well below levels with which they otherwise could have coped. International Monetary Fund (IMF) data suggests that at the euro’s inception, this currency distortion gave German industry a 6% competitive advantage compared with the country’s economic fundamentals.

Right from the start, then, the currency union divided the Eurozone into two classes of economies: producers and consumers. Greece, Spain Portugal, Italy, and other weaker economies over consumed and under produced. The Germans did the opposite. The difference surely contributed to the fiscal-financial crises that have plagued Europe’s periphery since. Meanwhile, the biases locked into the euro at the onset have since built on themselves. The Germans, with every inducement to produce, have poured effort into expansion and efficiency, improving their economic fundamentals and widening the gap between economic reality and the euro’s expression of it. The rest of Europe, most especially its periphery, has enjoyed no such positive inducements. They, understandably, have neglected productive effort, while the austerities imposed by the fiscal-financial crisis made them still less inclined to invest in the future. Their fundamentals consequently have fallen further behind. Updated IMF data suggests that by 2017 the German pricing edge built into the euro had about doubled to over 12%.

With the fiscal-financial crisis, itself partly a product of the currency mispricing, German export advantages spilled outside Europe. Because the crises drove down the euro’s value against the dollar, the yen, and other currencies, German industry’s pricing advantage extended to the global marketplace, certainly compared to where matters would have stood if Germany had an independent currency that avoided the taint of Europe’s troubled economies. To some extent, the euro’s depreciation should have helped exporters throughout Europe, but the original German advantages ensured that most of the benefit went to that country’s producers. The euro’s decline of some 30 percent against the dollar and the yen during these last ten years has placed Japanese and American producers at an increasingly adverse position opposite their German competition. German industry makes no complaints. On the contrary, it rejoices over a huge trade surplus that has risen to over 8% of the county’s entire gross domestic product (GDP).

Berlin and the German media have pushed away any talk of particular advantages. They certainly deny that the country engineered matters in this way. This may be so. No one at the euro’s birth anticipated such a result, not even the Germans. But whether the advantage was planned or not, Berlin, it is clear, has certainly gained. To perpetuate this favorable arrangement it has poured resources into support of the union and the euro. Germany has, for instance, put some 671 billion euros ($752 billion) at risk, one quarter of its gross domestic product (GDP), to hold things together by supporting Greece and other troubled nations on Europe’s periphery. It has also helped lasso the IMF into such lending. Berlin claims that all this money reflects only its commitment to the European experiment in union. That is an awful lot of altruism. A more cynical observer might suggest such extreme actions have an alternative motivation, a desperate effort to prevent the unraveling of arrangements that continue to serve German industry so well.

Though it would seem to redound to the advantage of everyone (except German industrialists) to unwind this system, it is not apparent that Europe even wants a change. Its leaders talk mostly of a harmonization of tax and spending policies. That might reduce some of the hardship imposed by the pricing biases built into the euro but not remove the basic problem. Otherwise no one, neither Berlin nor Paris nor Brussels, seems even willing to admit that such distortions exist, much less that an adjustment would provide relief. For the foreseeable future, then, the world generally and Europe in particular seem destined to suffer from these distortions as well as from the periodic financial panics that have grown out of them.

I consult on economics and investment strategy and serve as chief economist for the NY-based communications firm, Vested. I am a contributing editor for The National Interest and an affiliate of the Center for the Study of Human Capital and Economic Growth at the University...


Feel free to post any other articles on the subject but I think you'll find they have pretty much the same take. The Germans benefited hugely from the euro to the disadvantage of everyone else and it is no surprise people had enough of it.

[Mayhem]

snip

Quote me where I wrote Germany didn't benefit from the Euro. After you've done that, explain who forced Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and other weaker economies to join the Euro. And after you've done that, answer the questions I've asked you before, you know, the ones that had nothing to do with how Germany benefits from the Euro.

Oh and next time, just post the link, no need to c/p an article.

[Medusa Cascade]

Quote me where I wrote Germany didn't benefit from the Euro. After you've done that, explain who forced Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and other weaker economies to join the Euro. And after you've done that, answer the questions I've asked you before, you know, the ones that had nothing to do with how Germany benefits from the Euro.

Oh and next time, just post the link, no need to c/p an article.

Why do you engage with him? They will just keep coming back until you stop.

[Acidbaron]

Why do you engage with him? They will just keep coming back until you stop.

Some people like to bash their head into walls, you don't question why you just accept they are challenged.

[Mayhem]

Why do you engage with him? They will just keep coming back until you stop.

You haven't paid much attention, they will come back regardless.

[Medusa Cascade]

You haven't paid much attention, they will come back regardless.

Then ignore them...

[Mayhem]

Then ignore them...

I've tried, I've failed.

[AeneasBK]

Then ignore them...

If posters on this forum (myself included) could resist the urge to respond to the idiots here, the number of posts would probably drop to three or four a week. . .

[Slant]

Then ignore them...

Past experience shows that these posters will just continue to comment and keep on posting. The reason why many continue to engage them is not to actually change their minds. They're not stupid, they know that'll never happen. The main purpose is just to oppose them, expose their one-dimensional thinking and show the lurkers that their troll posts are not legit and certainly are not based in any rational thought.

It's when the normal people give up and let these viewpoints stand unopposed that people without the knowledge, experience or time to invest into researching it are vulnerable and may fall victim to propaganda.

Propaganda has to be fought every step of the way. These people make low quality shitposts, more often than not copy pasting arguments from fifth rate blogshitpages. That cannot be unopposed. Ever. Constant vigilance is the price we have to pay for our freedoms and a more cooperative world order in which we work together instead of against each other.

[thulgale]

If posters on this forum (myself included) could resist the urge to respond to the idiots here, the number of posts would probably drop to three or four a week. . .

I'll tell you how to get rid of people like myself.

1. Learn to google.
2. Stop circle-jerking each other with constant updates from mainstream media. People can read you don't need to share every fucking news story from Reuters. Yes that means you ctd123.
3. Stop patronizing people who don't agree with your fucking asinine remainer middle-class wanker consensus. I actually voted remain and probably will so again yet you people make me fucking puke, you are so unbelievably arrogant and lacking in empathy.There's a reason people voted leave and it wasn't just racism, it was also a reaction against you latte-chomping twats.
4. If you aren't British then show some fucking basic respect when discussing the subject, particulary if your country is known primarily for genocide.
5. Read a fucking book so you can at least understand the most basic tenets of economics. I think ladybird still do primers.
6. POST SOMETHING OF ACTUAL SUBSTANCE. I don't have very high expectations here I must add, it just has to be an original thought. Something other than forum etiquette, ad hominem attacks or links. In fact scrap the other 5. I will happily never post here again if someone manages 5 lines of commentary which isn't composed entirely of the above.

Alternatively keep on as you are and I may eventually gouge out my own brain with a fork.

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Sad so utterly sad, you can't blame a nation for something that happened almost 2 generations ago stop holding onto the past its people like you who need psychiatric help.

Yeah let's ignore the danger that the Krauts pose, that really worked well as a diplomatic strategy since WWI.

[Deleted]

You know the whole "I voted Remain" therefore I can criticise both sides thing doesn't really work when you never criticise Leave right?

No one believes you.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Alternatively keep on as you are and I may eventually gouge out my own brain with a fork

as if more encouragement to keep calling out racist idiots was needed

Stop patronizing people who don't agree with your fucking asinine remainer middle-class wanker consensus. I actually voted remain and probably will so again yet you people make me fucking puke, you are so unbelievably arrogant and lacking in empathy.There's a reason people voted leave and it wasn't just racism, it was also a reaction against you latte-chomping twats

is this Pann?

[Deleted]

I'll tell you how to get rid of people like myself.

1. Learn to google.
2. Stop circle-jerking each other with constant updates from mainstream media. People can read you don't need to share every fucking news story from Reuters. Yes that means you ctd123.
3. Stop patronizing people who don't agree with your fucking asinine remainer middle-class wanker consensus. I actually voted remain and probably will so again yet you people make me fucking puke, you are so unbelievably arrogant and lacking in empathy.There's a reason people voted leave and it wasn't just racism, it was also a reaction against you latte-chomping twats.
4. If you aren't British then show some fucking basic respect when discussing the subject, particulary if your country is known primarily for genocide.
5. Read a fucking book so you can at least understand the most basic tenets of economics. I think ladybird still do primers.
6. POST SOMETHING OF ACTUAL SUBSTANCE. I don't have very high expectations here I must add, it just has to be an original thought. Something other than forum etiquette, ad hominem attacks or links. In fact scrap the other 5. I will happily never post here again if someone manages 5 lines of commentary which isn't composed entirely of the above.

Alternatively keep on as you are and I may eventually gouge out my own brain with a fork.

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Yeah let's ignore the danger that the Krauts pose, that really worked well as a diplomatic strategy since WWI.

Anyone but me find it hillarious that the White Nation that invaded 9 out of 10 Countries and is responsible for several genocides is screaming about the dangers of the Germany? You know the Country that needed British permission to reunite?

It is like a Pedophile complainning about the rapist down the street.

[Mayhem]

Anyone but me find it hillarious that the White Nation that invaded 9 out of 10 Countries and is responsible for several genocides is screaming about the dangers of the Germany? You know the Country that needed British permission to reunite?

It is like a Pedophile complainning about the rapist down the street.

Self-awareness, knowledge and manners are no features of this burner.

[Slant]

Anyone but me find it hillarious that the White Nation that invaded 9 out of 10 Countries and is responsible for several genocides is screaming about the dangers of the Germany? You know the Country that needed British permission to reunite?

It is like a Pedophile complainning about the rapist down the street.

Reformed rapist, please. These days we're all about equality'n'shit.

[fothworlp]

Anyone but me find it hillarious that the White Nation that invaded 9 out of 10 Countries and is responsible for several genocides is screaming about the dangers of the Germany? You know the Country that needed British permission to reunite?

It is like a Pedophile complainning about the rapist down the street.

I am not a nation. I've talked about this with actual members of the far right in my country which requires actual courage rather than sucking each other's dicks pathetically on a forum where everyone agrees with you, particularly when they have military experience and/or prison records.

In any case this is hardly relevant: Britain is not attempting to control Europe, it wants to leave it. Talk your nasty little kraut friend out of posting fifty times a day on a matter that is fuck all to do with him or his country if you want to take a stand against neo-imperialist scum.