View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #6061
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Oh i missed it did we win? I suppose if we did it must be Germany next, how they doing?
    Oh Dribbles you scamp!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    All on course for a sweet no deal Brexit steady as she goes, tick tock tick tock, all the white paper has succeeded in doing so far, is increasing the likelihood of the UK government collapsing.
    I am curious how you reached this conclusion. JRM and his cohorts might have enough support to call a vote of no confidence but there is nowhere enough support for it to pass.

  2. #6062
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Strong and Stable, right?
    Pretty sure he believes that the old guard has to go so that a new and better order can arise. I kinda picture him as Kylo Ren.

  3. #6063
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Pretty sure he believes that the old guard has to go so that a new and better order can arise. I kinda picture him as Kylo Ren.
    I'm pretty sure he believes whatever is helping his play at the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  4. #6064
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I am curious how you reached this conclusion. JRM and his cohorts might have enough support to call a vote of no confidence but there is nowhere enough support for it to pass.
    Well I would think Labour would jump at any chance for an immediate election and to bring down the government, otherwise you would have the bizarre situation that Theresa May is only kept in post because of the support of Jeremy Corbyn.

  5. #6065
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I'll agree with Slant on this. The Four Pillars are sacrosanct to Brussels and the EU is not cracking on this.
    This is far from accurate.

    The EU has chopped and changed these Four Pillars on numerous occasions. There is nothing sacrosanct about them. Further, to somehow believe the EU is united in respect of Brexit is nonsense. The EU and the member states that make up the EU must be seen as seperate; Brussels has its own agenda, which is often at odds with the member states (eg, migration and Hungary and Italy). The member states have different political objectives, different economic pressures, different levels of capital accumulation and different democratic pressures (the latter in the case of the member states, but not in the case of the EU, which is democratically unaccountable). The notion that the EU has a united strategy in regard to Brexit is as wrong as the claim that the UK government has a united Brexit strategy.

  6. #6066
    Quote Originally Posted by Altarion View Post
    This is far from accurate.

    The EU has chopped and changed these Four Pillars on numerous occasions. There is nothing sacrosanct about them. Further, to somehow believe the EU is united in respect of Brexit is nonsense. The EU and the member states that make up the EU must be seen as seperate; Brussels has its own agenda, which is often at odds with the member states (eg, migration and Hungary and Italy). The member states have different political objectives, different economic pressures, different levels of capital accumulation and different democratic pressures (the latter in the case of the member states, but not in the case of the EU, which is democratically unaccountable). The notion that the EU has a united strategy in regard to Brexit is as wrong as the claim that the UK government has a united Brexit strategy.
    Can you present any insight on where the EU and its individual members have deviated vis a vis Brexit negotiations?
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  7. #6067
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Well I would think Labour would jump at any chance for an immediate election and to bring down the government, otherwise you would have the bizarre situation that Theresa May is only kept in post because of the support of Jeremy Corbyn.
    Which is exactly why Rees-Mogg will not get enough support to collapse the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Can you present any insight on where the EU and its individual members have deviated vis a vis Brexit negotiations?
    This all a bit of moot point, free movement is going nowhere if the provisional version of May's proposal is anything to go by.

  8. #6068
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    This all a bit of moot point, free movement is going nowhere if the provisional version of May's proposal is anything to go by.
    I mean, Altarion suggested that the EU and its members view the Brexit issue differently asserted it as self-evident, I have a right to ask where they see members deviating from common negotiations.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  9. #6069
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Can you present any insight on where the EU and its individual members have deviated vis a vis Brexit negotiations?
    In regard to the 4 pillars, Germany blocks free trade in services to maintain German professional standards and to prevent dilution of its privacy laws in a digital single market. France resists another pillar, free movement of capital, if this results in French firms being taken over.

    On that basis, the notion that the 4 pillars are sacrosanct is not a credible claim to make. This implies that sections of German and French policy is at odds with the 4 pillars and rubbishes the claim that EU member states don't deviate from the 4 pillars. Therefore, how can anyone claim individual member have not deviated from the 4 pillars during the Brexit negoations, when they were already not in compliance?

    The general point is this: The EU has some lofty policies and so-called 'principles', but don't for one moment believe EU member states follow them. There is a lot of picking and choosing going on!

  10. #6070
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean, Altarion suggested that the EU and its members view the Brexit issue differently asserted it as self-evident, I have a right to ask where they see members deviating from common negotiations.
    They probably do. Isn't the point of the meetings between the heads of EU states to voice their opinions on Brexit and agree a way forward?

  11. #6071
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Which is exactly why Rees-Mogg will not get enough support to collapse the government.

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    This all a bit of moot point, free movement is going nowhere if the provisional version of May's proposal is anything to go by.
    It doesn't have to be Rees-Mogg that asks if the house has confidence in Theresa to deliver the Brexit people voted for. I mean Labours Frank Field could do it, any of them on the Brexit side whose constituents voted in the majority to leave. I wouldn't rule that out either. What is Treezas majority, 13 on a good day with the wind blowing in the right strong and stable direction?

    And freedom of movement? I mean isn't that collapsing across the EU anyway? Schengen seems pretty dead with borders going up again all over the place at the request of mad Merkel. But when the British ask for a bit of control re borders, oh no the EU says, you can't have that. Seems like if the EU stick the barbed wire up again at their nations borders that problem might even go away. They could even stick one up on the border with Ireland/NI....Why not?

  12. #6072
    Quote Originally Posted by Altarion View Post
    In regard to the 4 pillars, Germany blocks free trade in services to maintain German professional standards and to prevent dilution of its privacy laws in a digital single market. France resists another pillar, free movement of capital, if this results in French firms being taken over.

    On that basis, the notion that the 4 pillars are sacrosanct is not a credible claim to make. This implies that sections of German and French policy is at odds with the 4 pillars and rubbishes the claim that EU member states don't deviate from the 4 pillars. Therefore, how can anyone claim individual member have not deviated from the 4 pillars during the Brexit negoations, when they were already not in compliance?

    The general point is this: The EU has some lofty policies and so-called 'principles', but don't for one moment believe EU member states follow them. There is a lot of picking and choosing going on!
    I cannot disagree with this. You are right that various members have found ways to deviate from the pillars. But what the UK requests, free movement of trade and services without free movement of people and with vague substitutes for that, is perhaps too far.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  13. #6073
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    It doesn't have to be Rees-Mogg that asks if the house has confidence in Theresa to deliver the Brexit people voted for. I mean Labours Frank Field could do it, any of them on the Brexit side whose constituents voted in the majority to leave. I wouldn't rule that out either. What is Treezas majority, 13 on a good day with the wind blowing in the right strong and stable direction?

    And freedom of movement? I mean isn't that collapsing across the EU anyway? Schengen seems pretty dead with borders going up again all over the place at the request of mad Merkel. But when the British ask for a bit of control re borders, oh no the EU says, you can't have that. Seems like if the EU stick the barbed wire up again at their nations borders that problem might even go away. They could even stick one up on the border with Ireland/NI....Why not?
    This is the Brexit you voted for. Brexit means Brexit, remember? Well this is Brexit.

    No confidence motions initiated by the opposition rarely succeed and I would say it would be extremely unlikely that Labour would table a vote and risk being the ones who carry the can for Brexit.

  14. #6074
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Oh i missed it did we win? I suppose if we did it must be Germany next, how they doing?
    Not so good, surprisingly. But that's alright, I hope you guys get it... you've waited what, 50+ years? We get that damn trophy every 20 years or so. And it's about time England stopped sulking and acknowledged that the World Cup is in fact bigger, better and more awesome than any FA cup. You knew it, you just never wanted to admit it. I'll see you around the ceremony, when suddenly the NT is totally super important. :P
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  15. #6075
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    This is the Brexit you voted for. Brexit means Brexit, remember? Well this is Brexit.

    No confidence motions initiated by the opposition rarely succeed and I would say it would be extremely unlikely that Labour would table a vote and risk being the ones who carry the can for Brexit.
    I mean that is the true madness of the referendum. Remain was pretty clear cut but what exactly IS Brexit?
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  16. #6076
    Quote Originally Posted by Altarion View Post
    In regard to the 4 pillars, Germany blocks free trade in services to maintain German professional standards and to prevent dilution of its privacy laws in a digital single market. France resists another pillar, free movement of capital, if this results in French firms being taken over.

    On that basis, the notion that the 4 pillars are sacrosanct is not a credible claim to make. This implies that sections of German and French policy is at odds with the 4 pillars and rubbishes the claim that EU member states don't deviate from the 4 pillars. Therefore, how can anyone claim individual member have not deviated from the 4 pillars during the Brexit negoations, when they were already not in compliance?

    The general point is this: The EU has some lofty policies and so-called 'principles', but don't for one moment believe EU member states follow them. There is a lot of picking and choosing going on!
    Yeah, I'll need some examples for your claims. With regards to privacy laws, naturally any claim before the GDPR will be ignored, because I can tell you right now that if there's no EU wide legislation concerning a subject, of course national law applies and if you don't follow that law, you don't do business. Has nothing to do with free trade. You are free to trade. Under the existing legal conditions. If you don't want to follow the rules, that's not anyone blocking you from free trade. That's you trying to live outside the law.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  17. #6077
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean that is the true madness of the referendum. Remain was pretty clear cut but what exactly IS Brexit?
    Ah, but anything said by remain was project fear therefore we must completely discount what they said.

  18. #6078
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Yeah, I'll need some examples for your claims. With regards to privacy laws, naturally any claim before the GDPR will be ignored, because I can tell you right now that if there's no EU wide legislation concerning a subject, of course national law applies and if you don't follow that law, you don't do business. Has nothing to do with free trade. You are free to trade. Under the existing legal conditions. If you don't want to follow the rules, that's not anyone blocking you from free trade. That's you trying to live outside the law.
    Well you can certainly make the claim that certain services don't have freedom on the level of trade, particularly professions. Actuarial certifications for instance.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  19. #6079
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Not so good, surprisingly. But that's alright, I hope you guys get it... you've waited what, 50+ years? We get that damn trophy every 20 years or so. And it's about time England stopped sulking and acknowledged that the World Cup is in fact bigger, better and more awesome than any FA cup. You knew it, you just never wanted to admit it. I'll see you around the ceremony, when suddenly the NT is totally super important. :P
    Haha well how does it go? Two world wars and one world cup!!!! I never said that you understand your honour.... Still we like to give you guys a chance after all that - The British Isles does field 5 teams to your 1 with a smaller population, imagine how often you would win it if you had to do the same? There's an example of EU inequality right there,.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    This is the Brexit you voted for. Brexit means Brexit, remember? Well this is Brexit.

    No confidence motions initiated by the opposition rarely succeed and I would say it would be extremely unlikely that Labour would table a vote and risk being the ones who carry the can for Brexit.
    Oh yeah, nothing has happened in the last few days to suggest I won't get the Brexit I voted for. Yesterdays chequers cake and eat it shopping list will fall at the feet of Barnier.

  20. #6080
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Oh yeah, nothing has happened in the last few days to suggest I won't get the Brexit I voted for. Yesterdays chequers cake and eat it shopping list will fall at the feet of Barnier.
    Exactly! A bit of positivity is what's needed. Brexit means Brexit. Welcome to Brexit - meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

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