Lol except when it suits them hey? Such as in the recent global pandemic emergency...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ask-export-ban
Not much of a trade bloc if you ask me, figment of your imagination perhaps dear?
13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"
i don't really blame the cons for that, all they ever really did was privatise them and remove subsidies, which was essentially just turning off the life support on a long comatose industry.
end of the day British manufacturing and mining died at the hands of country's like china, Taiwan, India e.t.c that simply out compete western nations on price. even with lower wages and less workers rights the titan that was american manufacturing eventually underwent the same fall, same with Germany, i cant think of any western nation that hasn't had to shift its industry in response to rising eastern manufacturing based economy's.
what i do blame the cons for, is how callous they were to the people who's lives and communities were dependant on those industry's, all the wealth in the space of a decade was suddenly centralised in London and a huge gulf was created between London and the rest of the UK both socially, economically and politically, from which it could be argued the first roots of our current problems arise, its ironic in a way that a problem the conservatives caused in the 80s is one of the major contributors to the eventual collapse of the red wall and labour support out side the big urban cities that were hit hardest by the transition of industry. though i imagine that is mostly down to Blair who dispute running the country for over a decade did very little to redistribute the wealth out of London and to the rest of the UK.
i think that's what makes Brexit so interesting to watch, unlike a lot of politics around the world, where a Left v Right mentality has dominated, Brexit is a lot more messy and has become the battle field for a lot of internal differences within the right and left wing parties. again something that's added to the cons success, bojo taking power, as bad as it was for any one who want to remain was a boon for the conservative party as before the 2019 election he purged a lot of the pro-eu cons like may and those she was trying to form a compromise with between the Brexit and anti-Brexit elements from the party, where as Corbyn who was anti-eu himself attempted to maintain the notion of compromise within labour that prevailed during the May years, a notion that i think 99% of us realised was not going to happen on such a fundamental and important topic. and that along with a whole host of other issues made up part of labours historic defeat at the polls.
its all interesting stuff and im sure people will be writing about it for years to come, diagnosing and deep diving what happend.
...... yes because the British government can set the tariffs on Chinese steel sold to other nations than the UK......... wait.....no that's not how that works.
like what is your point? we had all those things, doesn't make a difference when the industry post the end of the British empire was heavily reliant on exporting its goods to other nations to sustain its self. the end of the empire was the end of internal demand high enough to support the size and scale British manufacturing was at.
Last edited by Monster Hunter; 2020-07-04 at 03:50 PM.
Yep, I agree with this. And it gets to the heart of one of many of the problems the UK faces. Instead of brutalising e.g., the coal miners & their communities in the 80s an alternative tack would have been, you know, just to help them. Targeted support. Thatcher's administration failed in this regard leaving deprived communities in the industrial heartlands to rot. And, yes, Nu Labour did nothing to reverse this trend. Good piece here: https://www.theguardian.com/business...becoming-clear
Either way, though, the problem at hand is that after 30 years of deindustrialisation, promotion of London-centric policies, etc. it's a bit too fucking late now, and I've got absolutely zero time for niche industry representatives like Bertie (quoted above) telling us we "shouldn't be afraid of tariffs".
Remember Liam Fox in 2017?
The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.
So, was he lying or was he grossly incompetent? Which one?
Yes, it could, while in the EU. Also, what do you think trade agreements are about?
Are you aware that there are other countries in Europe especially 27 who you were in a trading bloc with?
Seriously, saying this was a dying industry after the end of the British empire because of Chinese steel is kind of ignoring that china started to really export steel at around the year 2004.
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He could be an incompetent liar, just saying.
Not disputing most of what you wrote here but German manufacturing is still very strong, no? 47% compared to, as you pointed out, around 10% in USA or UK...
I'm sure that's down to them having the entire EU by the balls or something, that's certainly what I've heard, but nevertheless to claim Germany has undergone the same decline in manufacturing as USA and UK isn't accurate, I didn't think... Or am I missing something?
Cherry picking stats, Germany has a bigger economy than India, and a much greater proportion is manufacturing (47% vs 23%). Again, just plucking stuff from wiki, without context, so happy to be shown how this is a misconception.
It's the combination factor in a way, of a right wing that at the time was huge on the Pro free market and Pro globalisation shafting the working class, then followed by a left wing gov that was also pro globalisation doing nothing to help, that mean the current working man is siding with the anti globalisation movement which is currently dominated by the modern right wing.
I don't agree with them, but I do fully understand why
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Internal market factor, you have to rember Germany untill 1991 Was 2 nations, half of Germany was inside the USSR, which was its self an single market, it left that when the EU became a proper single market facilitating a decent transition, UK industry collapsed really in the 1970s, shortly after the empire properly died in the 1960s, the empire was the primary demand for UK manufactoring, on the global market UK manufacturing didn't compete, and the ie was Stil mostly just trade deals that still left Easter and developing economy's cheaper.
Though there is also arguments that the reunification of Germany was the final nail in the coffin for British industry.
This whole thing with the steel actually showed Dribbles up at one point. He was screeching how the EU was doing nothing to protect UK steel. When told about how Cameron single handily stopped the EU, he flip-flopped cheering how UK steel was worthless and Cameron was right to stop the EU from doing actions to protect UK steel in this very thread.
The mass exodus from the EU to Brexit Britain continues as today... Shell boss Ben van Beurden hints at relocating headquarters to Britain
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/b...tain-rc3qxhbjw
After Unilever amongst others how many more EU jewels in the crown can they lose?
13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"
It's a legal merger, no staff or services are moving. But enjoy.
Meanwhile, the EU has stopped reporting on companies moving, because the number of companies transitioning people and services are in the hundreds. Injection of new money into the EU economy is counted in two-digit billions.
In other news, certain people still seem to be mostly full of shit.
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