Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[cubby]

Guess I'll say this for the 20th time here. Apparently people have trouble grasping the concept of the electoral college and it's genius. The electoral college exists because a city where millions more people live and likely share the same political ideals should not outweigh a smaller population spread out over a larger area where their political ideals will be more mixed.

The only thing the Electoral College does is make sure that some people's votes are worth more than others. If you don't understand that basic concept, there is nothing we can do to help you.

there was a Republican president that lost to the electoral college and won the popular vote but no one raised an eyebrow. Now because the dems lost they're pitching a bitchfit. Grow the fuck up.

No, there wasn't. Not this century, not last century. You're thinking of GOP presidents who win the EC and lose the popular - Bush and Trump - arguably the two worst presidents in modern history.

[Dontrike]

It doesn't matter if he will actually lift them - showing he might be open to cooperation at some point will be enough.

There's already cooperation between Trump and Putin, do we really need more?

[Shadowferal]

Judge orders Manafort to city jail, says they have experience with spies and traitors

Manafort, the former Trump campaign manager, had asked for his July 25 federal trial in Alexandria on bank and tax fraud charges to be delayed in large part because it was difficult to prepare while incarcerated 100 miles away. But on Tuesday, Manafort resisted being moved to Alexandria, arguing that while the city jail would be more convenient, he did not want to adjust to new circumstances so close to trial.

“It is surprising and confusing when counsel identifies a problem and then opposes the most logical solution to that problem,” Ellis wrote. “The dissonance between defendant’s motion to continue and motion opposing transfer to the Alexandria Detention Center cannot easily be explained or resolved.”

[Stormspark]

Judge orders Manafort to city jail, says they have experience with spies and traitors

Manafort, the former Trump campaign manager, had asked for his July 25 federal trial in Alexandria on bank and tax fraud charges to be delayed in large part because it was difficult to prepare while incarcerated 100 miles away. But on Tuesday, Manafort resisted being moved to Alexandria, arguing that while the city jail would be more convenient, he did not want to adjust to new circumstances so close to trial.

“It is surprising and confusing when counsel identifies a problem and then opposes the most logical solution to that problem,” Ellis wrote. “The dissonance between defendant’s motion to continue and motion opposing transfer to the Alexandria Detention Center cannot easily be explained or resolved.”

This is my response to that.

[Breccia]

House Democrats tried to ask Nunes why the HIC ended the probe without doing anything.

Nunes refused to answer, then left the hearing.

[candle86]

I find it funny that everyone is upset about something that didn't happen, yet when Obama actually meddled in the elections for Isreal not one liberal stood up and said you arn't supposed to do that.

[Dontrike]

I find it funny that everyone is upset about something that didn't happen, yet when Obama actually meddled in the elections for Isreal not one liberal stood up and said you arn't supposed to do that.

No, people can condemn Obama for doing it, weird thing is that none of you Trumplestiltskins are condemning Trump for any of this.

[candle86]

No, people can condemn Obama for doing it, weird thing is that none of you Trumplestiltskins are condemning Trump for any of this.

because there is no proof he did anything, zero, none, notta. There is proof Obama meddled in the Isreal election though, and no liberal ever talks about it

[Themius]

I find it funny that everyone is upset about something that didn't happen, yet when Obama actually meddled in the elections for Isreal not one liberal stood up and said you arn't supposed to do that.

So your stance is "but he did something!"?

That's a dumb argument.

Democrats criticize democrats republicans and everyone in between.

Republicans criticize democrats and when republicans do the very thing democrats were criticize for, they celebrate them.

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because there is no proof he did anything, zero, none, notta. There is proof Obama meddled in the Isreal election though, and no liberal ever talks about it

No proof besides his son mentioning the meeting... and Trump himself writing a statement which he lied when he said he didn't write and had nothing to do with it, except he did.

What do you think about that?

[Dontrike]

because there is no proof he did anything, zero, none, notta. There is proof Obama meddled in the Isreal election though, and no liberal ever talks about it

Yeah yeah, more whataboutism while ignoring the tower meeting, Trump firing a lead investigator and saying why he did it, and so much more. Nope, not even Trump's own words are proof he did something, that was actually ventriloquism and someone else was talking through him instead.

[Daelak]

because there is no proof he did anything, zero, none, notta. There is proof Obama meddled in the Isreal election though, and no liberal ever talks about it

Good, I'm glad he influenced an election for our interests. Being captive by the interests of Russia with an illegitimate president and agent of Putin, isnt good for American interests. You're another traitor that's too big of a fucking pussy to say it out loud, rather make meek statements so when shit does hit the fan and he is indicted, you will run to your " I didnt vote for him" safe space.

[Ripster42]

However, this is untested law. SCOTUS has never ruled on the Pardon authority of a President, nor on what actions constitute Executive Priviledge and which do not. So with Trump stacking the court, and the GOP already hinting that no Trump nominee needs to recuse themselves from cases involving Trump when they get to SCOTUS, we could be in for a major shift in the United States.

It's my understanding that they have ruled on executive privilege before, but it's not clearly defined. As in, "this specific thing is or is not covered under executive privilege," but not, "and here's everything else that constitutes executive privilege," which, as I understand it, is what they're supposed to do (the make judgments on cases before them part, not everything everywhere bit).

No one is claiming that. I'm just pointing out how no one was indicted, or allowed to get a plea deal without large stacks of evidence, regardless of the crime committed. Special Counsels will prosecute any crime they happen to find alongside the main investigation.

See: Whitewater turning into a blowjob scandal. Unrelated, yet pursued.

Whitewater was an independent counsel, not special counsel. It might not seem like a small thing, but it's not. The statutes are different which gives them different leeway.

[Felya]

because there is no proof he did anything, zero, none, notta. There is proof Obama meddled in the Isreal election though, and no liberal ever talks about it

The current prime minister of Israel, took office a month after Obama did.

[Bodakane]

I find it funny that everyone is upset about something that didn't happen, yet when Obama actually meddled in the elections for Isreal not one liberal stood up and said you arn't supposed to do that.

What did he do?

Because: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...election-effo/

Our ruling

A conservative blog claimed, "Obama has been sending taxpayer dollars, at least $350,000 to fund anti-Likud, anti Netanyahu groups in Israel for tomorrow’s election."

First, there is the matter of the dollar amount. If any U.S. money was used to mobilize anti-Likud voters, it would have been in Israel. A more accurate figure would be $233,500.

Next, there is a matter of the blog’s tense. "Has been sending" says the action is continuing. In this case, the money stopped flowing in 2014, before elections were called in Israel.

Finally, the allegation that the money was spent to fund anti-Likud, anti-Netanyahu groups in Israel for the election is based on speculation. Yes, Obama sent money to OneVoice, a group that promoted a two-state solution. And yes that group partnered with a different group V15 that wanted Netanyahu defeated. But there is no paper trail that the money given to OneVoice was spent on an electoral ground game. It would be naive to ignore that OneVoice’s policy positions mesh well with V15’s voter mobilization, but that’s different from saying that American taxpayer dollars were spent by V15.

That may change as more evidence comes to light.

PunditFact’s rulings are based on when a statement was made and on the information available at that time. This claim rates Mostly False.

And let's say it all true for a minute.....

You don't see how that is indifferent than large wave of misinformation spread through social media and email all while courting the republican nominee's people to have them pay for information and while having blackmail information on the Repub?

If no, then you're a partisan shill.

[Endus]

because there is no proof he did anything, zero, none, notta.

That word in bold is a deliberate weasel word, and really, there's no way you're not deliberately using it to change the subject.

Of course there's no 'proof'. Mueller's investigation is continuing and charges continue to be filed, and until that investigation is over and the charges have been prosecuted before the courts and there is a sentence handed down on those accused and found guilty, there will not be "proof". Because you need to have reached that point to describe the body of evidence as "proof", in the first place. This is why it's a weasel word.

What you should be talking about is whether there's any evidence. But even you can't claim there's no evidence of wrongdoing by Trump. Because there's metric fucktons of evidence. So you don't want to talk about this, so you use your weasel word to try and move the goalposts to something completely unreasonable.

[bloodstripes]

because there is no proof he did anything, zero, none, notta. There is proof Obama meddled in the Isreal election though, and no liberal ever talks about it

This article is from 03/03/17 and still has quite a lot of evidence pointing towards some pretty shady dealing between Trump and Russia. Phake nooze tho amirite?
https://www.politico.com/trump-russi...line-of-events

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That word in bold is a deliberate weasel word, and really, there's no way you're not deliberately using it to change the subject.

Of course there's no 'proof'. Mueller's investigation is continuing and charges continue to be filed, and until that investigation is over and the charges have been prosecuted before the courts and there is a sentence handed down on those accused and found guilty, there will not be "proof". Because you need to have reached that point to describe the body of evidence as "proof", in the first place. This is why it's a weasel word.

What you should be talking about is whether there's any evidence. But even you can't claim there's no evidence of wrongdoing by Trump. Because there's metric fucktons of evidence. So you don't want to talk about this, so you use your weasel word to try and move the goalposts to something completely unreasonable.

Well said.

[Katsutomai]

OH BOI! Here we gooooooooooo! https://twitter.com/jaketapper/statu...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7VUW8-qLs

[Felya]

What is this Rosenstien “law enforcement” announcement going down now?

[cubby]

It's my understanding that they have ruled on executive privilege before, but it's not clearly defined. As in, "this specific thing is or is not covered under executive privilege," but not, "and here's everything else that constitutes executive privilege," which, as I understand it, is what they're supposed to do (the make judgments on cases before them part, not everything everywhere bit).

You are correct, they have ruled in a few specific cases. And you are also correct that they typically only rule on what's before them, leaving the broader implications open for the future.

[Felya]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7VUW8-qLs

When does it start and what the heck is going on?