Let's talk about Sylvanas (No she isnt evil).

[Deleted]

I wouldn't if some Sylvanas fanboys weren't acting like mad dogs on leash...

Thats quite IRONIC coming from the Dog-Fanboi....

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Bitch is horde, Horde is evil, Bitch is evil.

what? who made Ilidan, brought orcs to Azeroth, had orc slave/labour camps, created Arthas, created Sylvanas, etc, etc - but sure the Horde is "evil"....

[CaptainV]

To read the OP's post yes its half true that Sylvanas is definatley caring for her people, and by her people I mean the Horde not just the Forsaken, evident by her amazing rallying cry.

But... Sylvanas is first and foremost a selfish and extremely narcisstic individual, her rallying cry comes part and parcel with two things. Perhaps in this desperate hour Sylvanas was reminded of her time as ranger general of the High Elves, having a momentary lapse of her past come back to haunt her as her people make their last stand. But in addition Sylvanas also has ambitions, plans, goals of conquest, she is no saint, it is rather naieve to think of her motives as protagonistic or benevolant.

She cares for the conquest of land and peoples because she is at this point past feeling empathy or remorse for her enemies. She is certainly a tormented woman but so is Jaina, no matter what atrocities they commit, evil is evil no matter the reason behind it.

Could one call Sylvanas Justified? I dont really think theres much justification in the fact her only concern with Garrosh bombing of Theramore was the *timing*, she is certainly not justified in what she wants, she simply wants to win a war, quickly, and decisivley.

I dont really see Sylvanas as a Queen, like most do, I see her as the Ranger General she always was... she has never changed, first and foremost, she is a commander of armies, and this is where she has her strongest prowess. In a conflict between horde and alliance, she is at her best, most favorable too.

However, she is still in all this for herself. Her immortality rises far above her interest in the rest of the races. She has seen the void, she does not desire to become one with it.

[Kithelle]

Sylvanas fanboys have a worgen fetish, they can't see their idol doing any wrong.

There is just no point in arguing with people...Sylvanas could eat a baby's heart through its chest and they'd make up some flimsy excuse why the act wasn't evil.

[Aquamonkey]

There is just no point in arguing with people...Sylvanas could eat a baby's heart through its chest and they'd make up some flimsy excuse why the act wasn't evil.

Was that baby the unholy spawn of Jaina and Kalec?

[Khirok]

But that old dog Stinkmane managed to talk little boy Gayduin into full-scale war with her. Genn is Garrosh 2.0 imo.

Nice homophobia you got there.

[Polybius]

Unfortunately you will get many biased opinions about her. Her race is manufactured and unable to reproduce which is a feature no one on Azeroth or real life can relate to. She is now Warchief, putting her race at the forefront of the Horde's defense. Yet her race is doomed to just inevitably run out.

Everyone will say her actions are evil in her attempts to raise more undead. Because morally, to every living being out there, it is evil. The Forsaken are creatures with a soul. Many of them want to continue existing in the world. A world that is at constant War. The forsaken and any sentient undead's fate is to be hated, hunted, and inevitably go extinct. Are her actions actually evil? To the majority, absolutely. But to her people, to the undead race, she saved them and keeps them alive.

Where she decides who is raised and who is killed by her new plague, yes. The living want to exist and control their own fate just as much as the undead. Sylvanas' undead intentionally envenom the living, unlike the Arthas-era undead who weren't in control of their actions (and despised the Lich King after they were freed, for this same reason of unwillingly attacking the living). This also makes her a hypocrite.

Her actions are counterproductive to her agenda of preserving her people, and makes it look like she cares about herself above all else.

[pateuvasiliu]

She killed innocent humans by testing WoW Ebola on them. She also complained about her sorry undead ass but then did the same thing to others, raising them as undead and forcing them to fight their friends and family. She is evil.

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Where she decides who is raised and who is killed by her new plague, yes. The living want to exist and control their own fate just as much as the undead. Sylvanas' undead intentionally envenom the living, unlike the Arthas-era undead who weren't in control of their actions (and despised the Lich King after they were freed, for this same reason of unwillingly attacking the living). This also makes her a hypocrite.

Her actions are counterproductive to her agenda of preserving her people, and makes it look like she cares about herself above all else.

She doesn. She doesn't give a toss about her people. They're just ''arrows in her quiver'', which she uses to stow death and eternal damnation away.

[Aquamonkey]

She doesn. She doesn't give a toss about her people. They're just ''arrows in her quiver'', which she uses to stow death and eternal damnation away.

Must be why she solo jumped into the middle of an enemy formation instead of slipping away while her forces were retreating.

[Deleted]

Evil is subjective of course, but if you don't think it is evil to capture innocents, put them in a bird cage and torture them by testing debilitating concoctions on them until they die... I'll have to question your morality

[Deleted]

She turns poor humans into rotting and emotionless monsters, damning them to hell in the process, and send them against their own family and friends... she's experimenting with the plague on human test-subjects... she is okay with bombing a city full of civilian if the timing is right... she's not above enslaving an entire race to do her bidding... and now she want to destroy Stormwind to create "new subjects" and until we're told the contrary she'd also burned down Teldrassil ( including Darnassus, again a city full of civilians)

And did anyone mentioned the fate of Nathanos' cousin ? That evil whore used necromancy to melt the poor guy and steal his life essence so she could have her boy toy at her side in a restored body. Pretty evil if you ask me, even her enamoured lapdog, Nathanos, doesn't feel okay after the act... wouldn't surprise me if he turn to be the one behind the Desolate Council in BfA, now that he regained his human emotions and can see Sylvannas for what she truly is.

[Broken Fox]

All the faction leaders are kinda evil and selfish tbh

[saraluck9090]

I am totally agree with you post.,

[Catblob]

Screams "for the Horde" in the cinematic... dumps blight on the Horde in the actual game.

Clearly a great leader.

[Drutt]

Anyone who can't see Sylvanas is evil isn't being honest with themselves. A couple of instances of doing not evil things doesn't excuse the nasty stuff she's done... and she's done a LOT of nasty stuff, things no decent person would ever do.

[Dellis0991]

That bitch is sick in the head. She done alot of fucked up shit, she probably ain't evil but oh boy she walk a fine fucking line. Fuck that bitch.

[Deleted]

She is smarter than Anduin and a more capable leader. That's true.

She is also MoP Garrosh levels of evil.

[Dalheim]

Screams "for the Horde" in the cinematic... dumps blight on the Horde in the actual game.

Clearly a great leader.

#MorallyGrey

/s

[Big Mama]

Anyone who can't see Sylvanas is evil isn't being honest with themselves. A couple of instances of doing not evil things doesn't excuse the nasty stuff she's done... and she's done a LOT of nasty stuff, things no decent person would ever do.

I don't think she is just evil. Well, yes. She kind of is evil but not like that pure villain kind of evil. People say she's morally grey, I'd say she's morally black. I think she lacks any empathy. But it doesn't necessarily make her an evil character. I think this depends purely on your individual point of view. When you compare her to the other main protagonists/characters from the game, she definitely looks like she's the most evil one. And I guess that's true. I think it gives a lot of opportunity to deliver unique plots to the story. People might argue with me, but if we got just Thrall, then Vol'jin and then Baine as our warchiefs, there wouldn't be much unique stories to tell. All three of them would lead the Horde in a very similar, a forced truce generic kind of way. I am not saying the characters are the same, but their main characteristics seem kind of similar and I think Sylvanas gave the devs and the writers a great opportunity to shift things in a little bit different and less generic way.

As a long-time fan of her character, do I really agree and apologize for everything that she has done? No, absolutely not. I think that

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ressurecting the skeletons and spraying the plague over her own troops to fight the Alliance

was a bit too much, even for her. But then, on the other hand - players are able to

Spoiler: 

resurrect the dead bodies and dead creatures to fight for them since WotLK and in the Lordaeron scenario, you can also spray the plague all over that place by yourself, if you wish so.

I just wish that the Alliance (or Genn on his own at least) would be seen as the aggressors for once. The Horde was and always will be the more barbaric faction, but I don't accept and don't want it to be always portrayed as the evil faction.

Sylvanas and her evilness are more specific though. As I said above, it makes sense for her (and the forsaken) to be naturally unempathetic. They are able to cannibalize on corpses, they are not supposed to be peaceful. A bit of an evilness is part of their nature.

[LoLcano]

She did nothing wrong , neither did Gaarrosh nor Hitler

[Toxuvox]

The problem here is that folks aren't stepping into the characters shoes here. She has no connection to her "humanity" by way of the nature of her undeath, so her actions will always fall short when judged purely on a Good vs Evil scale. She's also desperate...like desperately desperate...to avoid what lies in waiting should she be released from undeath. Her exisitence, both in undeath, and in the hereafter, is cursed. Her every action is tied to that desperation to remain "alive" so to speak, and as warchief, there is a clear attempt to have her personal goals line up with the goals of the Horde, which since it's reformation by Thrall, has always been about finding a place in the world. I think what we'll see over the course of the BfA story arc is Sylvannas coming to terms with the fallout of the choices she has made, and perhaps even making amends in certain cases. I don't think it'll be a straight up redemption arc, more of a clarification leading to acceptance.