Mage Tier Nerfs...

[Soulwell]

Positivity is the only thing that kept me from going insane trying to grind out kilt. I got it 2nd to last.

I just have slightly more faith in Blizz than most people I guess. Too easy to throw shade at the Devs than to trust the process.

The shoulders are my last legendary and I want to swallow lead everytime I farm.

[HuxNeva]

The fire set seems incredibly meh. So we'll still be farming ToS for TF. ((

[Talvindius]

The shoulders are my last legendary and I want to swallow lead everytime I farm.

If you're clearing Antorus on at least normal it should be 1 or 2 weeks max to get them.

I really enjoy the shoulders a lot. I expect they'll be go to on Eonar.

Not to mention how fun it is in m+ doing 3-4 mil sustained without using cooldowns if you get them to proc.

[mrgreenthump]

The fire set seems incredibly meh. So we'll still be farming ToS for TF. ((

You do know that T20 isn't any better for Fire, right?

[Deleted]

The benefit of the arcane set is that it's very passive. There's nearly no micromanagement needed with T21. That being said I can see why they nerfed the set. If you run kilt and 4 pc it guarantees you get a nice long burn phase to take advantage of potential haste procs.

The 2 and 4 set really benefit from crit and vers. The goal would be to finish your conserve rotation within 8 seconds (to keep 100% uptime on 2s buff), which is reasonable considering it would take very little haste to do so.

Given that the 4 set acts as "artificial haste" for the purpose of stat weights it's looking like haste will lose value and crit/vers will be the priority. For mages running the Soul ring, which is effectively more free haste, it frees up a lot of gear slots to put more vers and crit.

Given that the set is pushing for those stat weights I can see how dps would scale extremely well with ilvl to the point of ludicrous mages being able to burn through their whole mana bar destroying things with massive crits. Shaving the tier set down a bit just gimps the scaling so it doesn't get out of hand.

I still think Tier 21 is very good, being that T20 4set was hot trash you could easily run T20 2s and T21 4s to get some extremely insane RoP openers. If a haste proc happens during an opener your damage would be absolutely massive.

I don't mind the nerf. I eagerly await trying to tier out. That and the fact that it's pretty sick looking. #Norobelyfe.

I feel quite the same about it.
T20 2p + 4p T21 is something i was already considering.

But arcane seems to be far behind frost atm. So, w8 and see.
I am ready for arcane as well as frost at 75 artifact points + good relics.

Fire set has been nerfed too much. Probably not a good choice out of teeming mm+.

[HuxNeva]

You do know that T20 isn't any better for Fire, right?

It was certainly a huge step down from T19 at the same ilvl, but the 'gap' between even T20 and T21 seems even wider.

[Talvindius]

I feel quite the same about it.
T20 2p + 4p T21 is something i was already considering.

But arcane seems to be far behind frost atm. So, w8 and see.
I am ready for arcane as well as frost at 75 artifact points + good relics.

Fire set has been nerfed too much. Probably not a good choice out of teeming mm+.

Frost is simming as the best ST spec by quite a fair margin over arcane, followed by fire. This is simming with t21 4pc ofc.

The scaling on arcane gear is superior in that it gives what are essentially free stats. It's almost cliche at this point to say that arcane has the best scaling of all the mage specs but in Antorus it's looking the same way.

With normal or heroic tier frost looks like the best choice but as for high end mythic ilvl arcane may in fact pull ahead.

Either way unless you're min/maxxing you can basically just play what you want and have a good time, assuming you're not playing fire and feeling depressed.

[pkm]

If you're clearing Antorus on at least normal it should be 1 or 2 weeks max to get them.

I really enjoy the shoulders a lot. I expect they'll be go to on Eonar.

Not to mention how fun it is in m+ doing 3-4 mil sustained without using cooldowns if you get them to proc.

Which shoulders?

[Deleted]

Frost is simming as the best ST spec by quite a fair margin over arcane, followed by fire. This is simming with t21 4pc ofc.

The scaling on arcane gear is superior in that it gives what are essentially free stats. It's almost cliche at this point to say that arcane has the best scaling of all the mage specs but in Antorus it's looking the same way.

With normal or heroic tier frost looks like the best choice but as for high end mythic ilvl arcane may in fact pull ahead.

Either way unless you're min/maxxing you can basically just play what you want and have a good time, assuming you're not playing fire and feeling depressed.

For now, sims just put bigger numbers on dps gain for frost haste/intel and versatility than for arcane crit /vers.
Blizzard will probably make another tuning round and things might change. But scaling seems to be better for frost atm.

[Swalload]

I am really interested to see why they reverted the buffs to all the tiers that were buffed few weeks ago - Havoc DH, Frost DK and Arcane Mage...
This are my favorite specs to play and it is beyond me why they make them so worthless.
I really really want to see the logic behind this bullcrap.

Logic? LOL

In the smart people community we don't call this logic, we call this "ignorance" and "lack of talent".

[Talvindius]

Which shoulders?

Kirin Tor. Chance to shoot arcane orb when you dump charges with barrage.

For M+ and raw AoE it's actually insane.

- - - Updated - - -

For now, sims just put bigger numbers on dps gain for frost haste/intel and versatility than for arcane crit /vers.
Blizzard will probably make another tuning round and things might change. But scaling seems to be better for frost atm.

Frost itself has good scaling but the scaling on the tier effect is much much better for arcane.

Consider that RoP Arcane is very much about cooldown windows and optimizing the 2pc with Charged up to get the 2pc bonus during the opener and during whenever you use your 2nd rune. That's actually insane.

Stacking % damage with % spellpower is nuts. We saw it with 2pc TOS and we get it again with 2pc Ant. Hell, you can have both.

[Deleted]

Frost itself has good scaling but the scaling on the tier effect is much much better for arcane.

Consider that RoP Arcane is very much about cooldown windows and optimizing the 2pc with Charged up to get the 2pc bonus during the opener and during whenever you use your 2nd rune. That's actually insane.

Stacking % damage with % spellpower is nuts. We saw it with 2pc TOS and we get it again with 2pc Ant. Hell, you can have both.

Very unforgiving playstyle. But looks interesting.

[Talvindius]

Very unforgiving playstyle. But looks interesting.

It's much harder to optimally play which is what I enjoy about it.

[daydayhyphy]

you know t20 bonus for fire is better right?

[Re4leader1]

...or, you know, the usual Blizzard approach. Nerf the shit out of T20.

Can't let blizz give them too much love

[Araitik]

you know t20 bonus for fire is better right?

Yup. For me, 4P T20 + 2P T21 sims higher than 2P T20 + 4P T21, even if my T20 is 935 and my T21 is 945+.
This is madness, but then again given how the 4P bonus went from 50% all the way to 10%, I'm not even surprised.

It's like Blizzard thinks it's BfA already, making set bonuses irrelevant.