Do you think the Mueller findings will be conclusive?

[satimy]

That is to say that there will be a clear cut answer that will either exonerate or damn the president?

[Felya]

Depends who you ask...

[satimy]

Depends who you ask...

Im asking this forum

[DarkTZeratul]

Mueller isn't the sort to just end with "I dunno, I guess I didn't really find a whole lot." Whether it ends with "Trump definitely did something wrong" or "Trump definitely did nothing wrong," it's going to be conclusive.

[cubby]

That is to say that there will be a clear cut answer that will either exonerate or damn the president?

Yes.

I'm curious what would have to happen for you to acknowledge that it happened. At what point would you say, "Yep, Trump's guilty as hell. My bad."

[Lenonis]

Honestly I answered no.

I don't think the Mueller investigation, on the topic of collusion, will be able to show beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump colluded with Russia.

I do think, however, there is possibilities that his investigation will show conclusive proof of obstruction of justice or financial crimes, or both.

I also am willing to admit his investigation may end with Trump not getting indicted about anything.

[Edge-]

When he's finished with the investigation, whatever the findings end up being, yes. Otherwise he's not done with the investigation, or he's fucked up.

[Mormolyce]

Hard to say at this point.

I mean frankly, you could catch him red-handed with a smoking gun shoved up his asshole and certain people would swear blind he's been falsely accused.

But to any reasonable standard? Mmmm, probably yes.

It depends on what charge though. I'm fairly confident Mueller will nail him or his close family with something.

[Felya]

Im asking this forum

This forum doesn’t have a voice and it’s the only true answer. You are asking people to predict the future and then asking their subjective opinion, on the finality of the prediction. The only correct answer is... depends who you ask...

[-aiko-]

Conclusive for...?

I'm sure they'll hit him or a family member with something, but a lot of people hoping for treason, collusion, etc are probably in for some disappointment.

[Rukh]

There will conclusively be charges of obstructing justice and likely money laundering. Whether we end up with charges of conspiracy are less likely. That's a hard one to nail down. We know he worked with the Russians, we don't know if one will be able to conclusively prove criminal intent and actions.

[Shadowferal]

Conclusive one way or another.

The meeting with Trump may likely be him telling Trump to either face impeachment or step down.

[Ghostpanther]

Conclusive one way or another.

The meeting with Trump may likely be him telling Trump to either face impeachment or step down.

Or he may simply want to get some input from the horse's mouth. If he had conclusive evidence for Trump to resign, it would already have came out with it. Besides, the President can resign before impeachment hearings. Trump does not have to talk to him. Mueller is going to try his best to show some effort for months of government pay.

[Machismo]

His findings will be concrete, but not necessarily in a binary conclusion. There will be things that he will never know. The server at Trump tower that was turned off and disappeared is one of those things.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Hard to say. Doubt he'll be nailed on Russian collusion (i.e. conspiracy) even though at this point we know the Russians were often in contact with Trump's team and paid millions of dollars in attack ads for Hillary. They'd basically have to prove somehow that Trump and the Russians collaborated on this, when in reality even if they did collaborate, they probably kept Trump himself far away from the meetings so the possibility of him being nailed were low.

But money laundering, obstruction of justice, and just flat out purgery all seem like pretty solid charges to follow.

[Thekri]

Or he may simply want to get some input from the horse's mouth. If he had conclusive evidence for Trump to resign, it would already have came out with it. Besides, the President can resign before impeachment hearings. Trump does not have to talk to him. Mueller is going to try his best to show some effort for months of government pay.

I agree with most of this except the last sentence. I know you are defending him, but it is still true if he is totally guilty. I think Mueller has enough evidence to tie a LOT of Trump's people to conspiracy charges, almost certainly including both Kushner and Don Jr., but I doubt he can tie it to the President with enough certainty to conclude the investigation.

Trump himself apparently never touches a computer, rarely writes anything, and his verbal statements are a convoluted, self-contradicting mess. It is very, very hard to personally tie him to anything, most of the witnesses close to him have massive credibility issues. A personal interview with Trump under oath is probably the best shot at court permissible hard evidence Mueller has. Trump is weak and a coward if you isolate him, he may talk crap about you when you leave, but if Mueller can bring leverage into that room that Trump isn't prepared for he very well could cave and spill a lot. A different approach might be to butter him up, convince him he awesome, this is all a formality, and watch him brag about it all. There also exists the possibility Trump didn't even realize how he was getting played by Russia, quite possibly for decades. New York real estate market has been full of shady dealings with a lot of shady characters for a while now, and Trump is far to arrogant to admit he hasn't had the upper hand the whole time.

At this point I think it fairly likely that a connection to Trump is all Mueller has left to prove, I think he has the rest of them in the bag whenever he chooses to take them, but he doesn't want to leave the biggest prize on the table when he does so.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I agree with most of this except the last sentence. I know you are defending him, but it is still true if he is totally guilty. I think Mueller has enough evidence to tie a LOT of Trump's people to conspiracy charges, almost certainly including both Kushner and Don Jr., but I doubt he can tie it to the President with enough certainty to conclude the investigation.

Trump himself apparently never touches a computer, rarely writes anything, and his verbal statements are a convoluted, self-contradicting mess. It is very, very hard to personally tie him to anything, most of the witnesses close to him have massive credibility issues. A personal interview with Trump under oath is probably the best shot at court permissible hard evidence Mueller has. Trump is weak and a coward if you isolate him, he may talk crap about you when you leave, but if Mueller can bring leverage into that room that Trump isn't prepared for he very well could cave and spill a lot. A different approach might be to butter him up, convince him he awesome, this is all a formality, and watch him brag about it all. There also exists the possibility Trump didn't even realize how he was getting played by Russia, quite possibly for decades. New York real estate market has been full of shady dealings with a lot of shady characters for a while now, and Trump is far to arrogant to admit he hasn't had the upper hand the whole time.

At this point I think it fairly likely that a connection to Trump is all Mueller has left to prove, I think he has the rest of them in the bag whenever he chooses to take them, but he doesn't want to leave the biggest prize on the table when he does so.

Basically in short, through various leaks out of the white house we know what we suspected all along. That Trump is a lazy slob who doesn't do his job and lets others do it for him. And at some point in a private meeting with one of his top advisors, he was probably like "Oh yeah cool, work with the Russians if it will help us win" and we'll NEVER KNOW because it's everyone else around him that's dropping like flies for Russian collusion.

[Daelak]

That is to say that there will be a clear cut answer that will either exonerate or damn the president?

Trump will be found as a willing conspirator with the state of Russia to interfere in the US presidential election of 2016. Coupled with this damning information and his decadal cooperation with Russian Oligarchs friendly to Putin to launder money in and out of the US and Europe via Cyprus, it will be the most destructive act ever imperiled onto the US body of government in the history of the US.

[shimerra]

Or he may simply want to get some input from the horse's mouth. If he had conclusive evidence for Trump to resign, it would already have came out with it. Besides, the President can resign before impeachment hearings. Trump does not have to talk to him. Mueller is going to try his best to show some effort for months of government pay.

Once again, Watergate. It was years before Nixon felt the axe looming over his head close enough to resign.


But no no no this is a nothing investigation. How much money did you insist we piss away on the nothingburger investigations into Hillary? Because this one's already got results.

Trump himself apparently never touches a computer, rarely writes anything, and his verbal statements are a convoluted, self-contradicting mess. It is very, very hard to personally tie him to anything, most of the witnesses close to him have massive credibility issues. A personal interview with Trump under oath is probably the best shot at court permissible hard evidence Mueller has. Trump is weak and a coward if you isolate him, he may talk crap about you when you leave, but if Mueller can bring leverage into that room that Trump isn't prepared for he very well could cave and spill a lot. A different approach might be to butter him up, convince him he awesome, this is all a formality, and watch him brag about it all. There also exists the possibility Trump didn't even realize how he was getting played by Russia, quite possibly for decades. New York real estate market has been full of shady dealings with a lot of shady characters for a while now, and Trump is far to arrogant to admit he hasn't had the upper hand the whole time.

I can tell you this much as my significant other is currently at Trial Team practice that the bolded statement is exactly the type of person they want. An idiot who contradicts himself is the lawyer's wet dream to cross examine because if you can impeach the witness or otherwise destroy their credibility it's one of the best ways to blow up the other side's case. Contradiction and Inconsistent statement are literally two ways to Impeach a witness. And while some localities don't allow you to use those inconsistent statements as evidence because of hearsay rules the Federal Rules do meaning an extra way to prove your case using the person's own words.

Honestly his only hope is that deposition video that leaked that showed that he isn't entirely too stupid to be lead around by the nose 100% of the time.

Trump's best hope is he was too lazy to actually be an active participant in any of those while every idiot around him was just too stupid to avoid it. I think the best case situation for Trump is he might avoid any direct charges for colluding with Russia but he's damn sure tried to be the biggest idiot in the room when it comes to trying to protect his buddies/family like Flynn who did.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Here is the thing Mueller is going to be stopped in his tracks should he even get as far, and should he find something keep in mind you have Republicans in The House and The Senate who can do whatever they want and they won't do anything on it.

On top of that even if hypothetically he could be impeached, Republicans will shut it down, and when it comes to the 2nd mesure which is to remove Trump that has even less than a snowball's chance in hell.

Trump is in this now for the next 7 years, and more than likely the Republicans will hold the House and Senate for about the same amount of time. The best thing to do is let it go on the record let it be known whats going on, and everybody else DNC, Green Party, Libertarian Party should just simply focus on their own platforms