Rogue 8.0 Discussion

[Pigglix]

So did blizzard fixed the new sub talent and the leeching poison for assassination on this build?

[Deleted]

Secret Technique doesn't work. Still.

[Mafic]

Yeah secret techniques still doesn't work and no animation.

[Deleted]

enjoy you're infraction Drayiicha



Infracted.

Ye, got an infraction - and you went and did this! xD

No hate, just hilarious. We've both been spanked now

Infracted.

[zaino]

Lol we got shafted this build only once change and it’s to a not so used sub talent

[Deleted]

Lol we got shafted this build only once change and it’s to a not so used sub talent

Hardly shafted, but annoying STech still doesn't work...

If anyone is being shafted its our buddies the Shadow Priests, they have been taking the D so hard all Alpha/Beta at this rate they will all goto release with bum holes that look like the Japanese flag!!

- - - Updated - - -

But you describe the perfectly normal case. You start feeling the slower pace when closing in on max level. Right now you are hit with that slow down still having the same insane mythic gear at level 110; and ofc it becomes even slower when you level up to 120. Meaning that gearing will only bring you back to that prepatch pace, which is slower than Legion pacing.

After copying my char across the only spec that feels to me any slower at 110 is sub imo and thats mainly because we only carried over shadow's whisper from the artifact and not energetic stabbing.

Sin feels very much the same, a methodical and smooth rotation of dots and pooling for envenom windows buffed by toxic blade. The pace quickens abit when playing with exsanguinate but not that much. The sustained aoe is really nice now wit the addition of CT. It just feels solid.

I've been playing Outlaw with SnD and Ghostly Strike, it basically feels like a much better version of Cata Combat, really fast paced almost gcd locked, i will admit you do need vigor tho for the times you dont get pistol shot procs. Deep Strat version really needs quick draw to smooth out the energy regen when trying to build 6cp, so its slows the spec down a little but it still works fine. I don't really like RNG (who does tbh) being a large dictation on my output so generally shy away from RtB and Loaded Dice. One thing tho this spec will be a fucking monster in lower mythic keys, the burst you can do with blade flurry now is hilarious.

So yeah, sub feels a lot slower if you dont play the vigor build, which im sure wont be the optimal way to play now i've had a full test. Everything in the toolkit seems to want to operate now around the 30s cd of symbols,MfD and find weakness windows. Using shadow focus you can literally pump a metric fuck ton of finishers and shadow strikes into the symbols window with FW up then go back to maintenance after blowing your load and regen resources until symbols comes back up. You can rely on rng for ST to faciltate more DS procs or i preferred using enveloping shadows for the extra dance charge to make sure i always had at least 2 dances going into the symbols burst phase. So yeah the pacing has slowed down in respect to this but it works as you see all your shit regening for the next huge burst window..............dare i say it a little like WoD

Just annoying STech was not working but kinda think MoS is going to be needed anyways.

[Mafic]

You can do a character copy and notice the GCD is still an issue on the PTR for example with well geared characters.

However, with that said I think haste gearing will benefit all three Rogue specs greatly down the road. But BFA Blade Flurry for example being on a GCD is bad, because it doesn't have a damage component to it. Old Blade Flurry, when it was a cool down, also had haste attached to it though but that was also a different era of the game. That haste from old Blade Flurry was eventually moved over to Adrenaline Rush.

As for number tuning that hasn't really happened yet and a lot could change. Also remember that Outlaw in BFA will be more reliant on white damage and the combo point generation was purposefully throttled back (eg no more extra combo point from a second Sinister Strike).

So even if you have high enough haste on gear BFA Outlaw is objectively slower than Legion Outlaw.

As for Sub Rogue in BFA it is hard to tell what they want the spec to be because it seems Secret Techniques is the lynchpin of what they are trying to do or I assume that is the case. But if that is all they have for Sub at this point that would be disappointing because the spec needs a lot of help to really stand out.

Assassination is simply a breeze and fun to play because no one expects high actions per minute with this spec. But bleed and poison builds now scaling with haste has potential to be very interesting.

[Slim Charles]

Eh, I'm not so sure that it is slower than Legion pacing.

Well I am more than sure. And it has been confirmed in terms of APM on the rogue discord so I don't know why you keep offering apologetics here.

It can't be "the perfectly normal case" and be "slower". They are mutually exclusive. One indicates normality and nothing unusual. The other is a superlative (or, perhaps even diminutive, but still indicating something outside of the normal).

Wth are you talking about?? The normal case refers to the older expansions where the slow down happened on max level. NOW the slow down happens already at 110 with raiding gear and it gets even worse on max level.

[Deleted]

Something had to give when white damage is being buffed significantly.

Perhaps not for Sin or Sub since they favor pooling, but a drop in APM for outlaw will at least give it some head room for improvement as you gear up. Being gcd locked in starting gear may feel nice, for those that like it, but it really restricts you ability to adjust the spec via your stats/talents i.e go for a more slower build if you like that and over all it will diminish the feeling of a power curve over the course of the expansion.

I don't agree that it currently feels horrible for me at 110 and i'm not in full mythic gear as lock was my main for legion. So to me this is pretty subjective or basically i'm feeling less of a slow down that people with 960+ gear, so i get that it might be more jarring for some than others, especially when many people will have different stat distribution depending on what spec they were playing.

With the right talents i think all three specs play pretty well on beta right now. Sub does need a few tweeks, but apart from that we are in a pretty good place for release and a massively better place than some other poor specs/classes.

[elfporn]

Question:
With haste being more valuable in bfa, a re you feeling slow while playing a build with little to no haste.

[Critical92]

Bleeds got changed and scale with haste in bfa. Poisons i don't know.
Also assas mastery got changed to affect poisons and bleeds.

[Varolyn]

Bleeds got changed and scale with haste in bfa. Poisons i don't know.
Also assas mastery got changed to affect poisons and bleeds.

Poisons do indeed scale with haste in BfA.

[Pigglix]

Woot new beta build out, i'll hope Secret Technique is working now >.<

[Deleted]

New PvP Talent:

Create: Crimson Vial Create a Crimson Vial to share with allies. Maximum of 3 can be carried at once. Crimson Vial Drink an alchemical concoction that heals you for 30% of your maximum health over 6 sec. 3 charges. Honor PvP Talent. 1.5 sec cast. 60 sec recharge. 3 charges.

KeK, RMP just go buffed through the roof with this, giving a mage a self heal on top of barrier, temp and 2 blocks is kinda silly, though i'm not complaining if it goes live!!! Although thinking about it the 5s nerf to shimmer could even things up.

[Axaion]

sub feels terrible without 6/6+ in Energetic stabbing really.

not that they will give that back to us.

[Deleted]

sub feels terrible without 6/6+ in Energetic stabbing really.

not that they will give that back to us.

Why? Which talents are you playing with? Have you copied your char on beta or are you on the PTR?

[Axaion]

Why? Which talents are you playing with? Have you copied your char on beta or are you on the PTR?

PTR, have you played live with full artifact?
playing with MFD, which is pretty much the only rotation changer in that regard

[zaino]

Why? Which talents are you playing with? Have you copied your char on beta or are you on the PTR?

The removal of ES and the artifact active removed a LOT of energy in that sub had, without it the spec feels very slow, pooling for energy for 4-5 seconds is not fun and I don’t know why blizzard thinks it’s acceptable

[Deleted]

PTR, have you played live with full artifact?
playing with MFD, which is pretty much the only rotation changer in that regard

Yes, and i'm playing on beta. MFD is certainly one of the new talents you want to play with, but i suggest playing with FW, SF MfD, ES and MoS. Try that combo and you will find sub very much a extreme pool and dump spec. You can pretty much go seriously ham every 30s with everything and regen it again between symbols cds it works quite well.

The removal of ES and the artifact active removed a LOT of energy in that sub had, without it the spec feels very slow, pooling for energy for 4-5 seconds is not fun and I don’t know why blizzard thinks it’s acceptable

Subjective mate, entirely depends on the result of that pooling. I would agree that if pooling results in mediocre damage then yes it would feel pretty shitty, but as long as they tune the numbers right, the slow pooling of beta sub will feel pretty dam nice as you will be unleashing godly amounts of burst every 30s with symbols. Like i said as long as they tune it correctly. But if you do not like that playstyle, its like i said in the first place subjective.

It's not really a new talent. It's a renamed talent. Same function, different name. 0/10 troll, try harder.

Ok fine, maybe i should have said "drink up me hearties" is now available for all rogue specs, but my original point still stands that that now RMP will be much stronger as this is available to not just outlaw(which is rarely played in RMP(ladder not whazz)) but sub and ass. But anyways, was just getting hyped for buffs, which it is for pvp, thanks for being so negative mate, just what we all need in the community.....

[Deleted]

Every time they try making energy pooling super relevant it just puts rogues backwards in the face of mana-type resource classes that play like an arcade game while dealing the same or more damage. It isn't the first time this complaint has cropped up.