Is this guild's leadership bad, or am I wrong in this?

[Moshots]

I mean whats the problem? the rules were the rules before now they are just saying you can't quit 2 weeks from now and come back in 25 weeks saying I WANT MY MOUNT....

If in 4 weeks the GM/RL/officers quit then complain but for now all they are saying is if you want a mount you can't leave week 2...

[Barnabas]

OP if you stay you aren't getting your mount anytime soon and if you leave you aren't getting your mount anytime soon.

[Soluna]

Thank you all for your various opinions, and experiences about how this was handled in your guild. There are 2 reasons primarily for which I am asking MMO-Champion about this:

a) Firstly, I've never been in such a situation, and if we assume that I am indeed not hiding anything (which I don't, but it's your problem if you don't believe me), was I correct in feeling like my guild's leadership is in the wrong? Or am I not realistic and that's how guilds work today? This is something that I want to see, as I didn't see any disagreement tonight from anyone after the Guild Leader announced this.

It could have been for a variety of reasons like them not caring about the mount, being tired from Aggramar progress/kill, being very happy about Aggramar kill that they didn't notice anything wrong with the proposal, or it's just that the raid leader and the GM left to a different channel shortly after. It could also be that like me, others are also scared of reacting to it.

b) By taking into account each and every reply of all of you, I will try to truly find the best approach in handling this, instead of going yolo.

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I mean whats the problem? the rules were the rules before now they are just saying you can't quit 2 weeks from now and come back in 25 weeks saying I WANT MY MOUNT....

If in 4 weeks the GM/RL/officers quit then complain but for now all they are saying is if you want a mount you can't leave week 2...

No, what they are saying is that if you quit in any of the 4 weeks after killing Argus, you are kicked from the guild, essentially forcing us to get the mount for them. After that, they won't enforce any rules, which to me, and many others in this thread, sounds like they don't really care about the raiders, but only for them...

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OP if you stay you aren't getting your mount anytime soon and if you leave you aren't getting your mount anytime soon.

Can you please add something constructive, instead of stating the obvious? Or are you just doing this for post count?

[Kazuchika]

Yeah take it from Moshots he's been kicked out of enough guilds to know how these things go after all

[nWoMATT125]

here my question to the op how many of the raiders have been there for years and how many are new (under 4 weeks) and do the raider been there for a while have to stay for a another 4 weeks?

[Goldielocks]

Idk what I've seen on Openraid sounds like a better system to promote player retention week after week, while also allowing RNG to even the odds. Each raider gets to roll, but a certain amount is added to that roll per week for each week that raider has returned. Of course if the top ranks still want to keep an edge on it, they can add their own bonus on top of that, but RNG still gives others a chance for the mount anyway.

[Barnabas]

Thank you all for your various opinions, and experiences about how this was handled in your guild. There are 2 reasons primarily for which I am asking MMO-Champion about this:

a) Firstly, I've never been in such a situation, and if we assume that I am indeed not hiding anything (which I don't, but it's your problem if you don't believe me), was I correct in feeling like my guild's leadership is in the wrong? Or am I not realistic and that's how guilds work today? This is something that I want to see, as I didn't see any disagreement tonight from anyone after the Guild Leader announced this.

It could have been for a variety of reasons like them not caring about the mount, being tired from Aggramar progress/kill, being very happy about Aggramar kill that they didn't notice anything wrong with the proposal, or it's just that the raid leader and the GM left to a different channel shortly after. It could also be that like me, others are also scared of reacting to it.

b) By taking into account each and every reply of all of you, I will try to truly find the best approach in handling this, instead of going yolo.

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No, what they are saying is that if you quit in any of the 4 weeks after killing Argus, you are kicked from the guild, essentially forcing us to get the mount for them. After that, they won't enforce any rules, which to me, and many others in this thread, sounds like they don't really care about the raiders, but only for them...

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Can you please add something constructive, instead of stating the obvious? Or are you just doing this for post count?

What else is their to weigh in here about? Your complaint is about wanting the mount. Do you want me to tell you to stay because you have it all wrong? Then later one of the officers finds this thread and tells a completely different story and you look like an idiot? I don't have all the facts. So again either way you aren't seeing the mount anytime soon. Decide if its with this guild or another one. You seem to have the opinion they are going to screw you. So why haven't you left yet? Because you are going to have to wait anyway for it when you trial someplace else and have to go through the process again?

[Aeula]

They're setting you up. Get out and get others to come with you.

[rhorle]

I think you are mistaking my intentions.

What I want is for everyone who progressed equally Argus to be given a chance to roll for the mount. I don't want priority over anyone. As I've stated in the OP, I DON'T MIND staying and farming it until the very end of the expansion, and even get it last according to their loot rules, IF they can ensure that no one will quit and screw me over. Why should I help 2/4 or 1/4 of the group to get their mounts, when I know nearly for sure that with the restrictions they are placing, only they will benefit from it?

The problem is that you knew all of this ahead of time. You knew you would be in the last group to get the chance to /roll at it. Minimum of 4 weeks is not even covering all of the officers. If you knew the loot rules, said you were fine with it in the OP but now balk then the problem is with you. There was always a chance that people would stop raiding before you got the mount.

But now you balk because the word forced was used in conjunction with only 4 weeks. Be realistic. If you are worried about not getting it then you always were even if you won't admit it. If you've only been with the guild for 5 or 6 weeks you aren't that big of an asset otherwise you would be a higher rank. They can't steal the mount.

If it bothers you then leave the guild and find a new one. You decided to stay with this guild even when you knew their mount distribution method. No one to blame but yourself.

[Alvito]

These sorts of mounts open up all sorts of issues. I have seen far too many guilds stop after getting a handful of them shitting on people that were there for the entire grind start to finish. No matter what the system some people get shit on. The source of this might be the system in place for giving the mount out or just dog shit RNG. I can say as somebody who has leaded many raids that had rare mounts drop and never gotten one myself I can see the draw to making the system work in your favor. Having said that there are many reasons why I have never done that for myself.

[Soluna]

What else is their to weigh in here about? Your complaint is about wanting the mount. Do you want me to tell you to stay because you have it all wrong? Then later one of the officers finds this thread and tells a completely different story and you look like an idiot? I don't have all the facts. So again either way you aren't seeing the mount anytime soon. Decide if its with this guild or another one. You seem to have the opinion they are going to screw you. So why haven't you left yet? Because you are going to have to wait anyway for it when you trial someplace else and have to go through the process again?

I have an answer to all your points:
1) It helps hearing the opinions of everyone here, my 'b)' reason stated in your quote states why.
2) Whether an officer will find this thread or not, is completely irrelevant, as I have stated the truth. You don't have to believe it, others seem to do so, and give their opinions on it. In the end, why would I lie? Will I magically get the mount if I show this thread to my officers once we kill Argus? Be like 'Look, these guys said I deserve it too, so let me fair roll!!11!1'.
3) I haven't left, because I am at 10/11 M. At this point, I will either join a good 10/11M guild which has a good setup, and won't change it just for a 'trial', meaning I will not get to progress Argus, which I've been looking forward to, or I will join an 11/11M guild, who I will just farm Argus with, which will literally prove nothing about my skill level till BfA, as you can't judge a person's worth on 'farm'.
4) I joined this decent guild mid-tier, 2 months ago or so, aiming to get cutting edge, and the mount eventually with them. I didn't join to boost selfish officers to glory for free.

I hope this cleared for you my reasons for making this thread, if not, do not bother in replying and increasing your post count here any longer. I don't want to argue.

[Marrilaife]

Instead, they follow this loot rule which never favors the raiders. Heck, in patches like 8.0.3 or 8.1-2, we raiders (even most core raiders), won't get any chances to roll for the mythic mount, as usually guilds which are at Argus now, are guilds who barely get cutting edge in a usual small tier. This means that we would funnel mounts to the leading part of the guild, and never to us.

This is what bothers me.

My guild is killing Gul'dan to this day. Early raid tier mounts give you actually more time rather than less to get it for everyone. I got mine as one of the last people, and after we gave it to all raiders, we started selling it for gold.

Anyway I see the majority of people in this thread are like "off with the cliques! raid roll to everyone!", and I witnessed how it works in practice, in HFC I was in a different guild and we've handed so many mounts to people that would just take it and fuck off to take break until next expansion or to a better guild.

I was never a GM / raid leader / officer in any guild yet I believe the mount should be handed in order GM > raid leader / officers > raiders in order of seniority (how long they are raiding with the guild). That ensures guild hoppers and "oh I'm so burnt out" guys don't luck out on roll over people who show every week for months and years on end and are actually the foundation of the raiding team.

Obviously the way the GM put it in the OP's story, assuming it's the truthful relation of it, smells suspicious especially since it's dividing the hide before bear was slain. However, the basis on the idea - if you cba helping others get their mount and you're gonna vanish quickly after kill, then indeed, you don't deserve it. On the other hand, in most guilds you wouldn't need to threaten people to stay, there are usually some flaky members, but the core plays together because they enjoy playing together and you don't need to put a leash on them. If you need to - maybe the guild isn't so solid overall.

[rhorle]

Can you please add something constructive, instead of stating the obvious? Or are you just doing this for post count?

Sometimes the obvious is the most constructive thing. If you ask for advice accept the advice that is given even if you don't like it. You know the loot rules. You knew your chances were going to be slim. Now that your guild has the mounts within sight you are questioning now. Why not when you first heard the loot rules for the mount?

Were you going to leave the guild anyways once you had the mount? Were you going to stop playing your self in 4 weeks? No? Then it is a non-issue.

[Soluna]

The problem is that you knew all of this ahead of time. You knew you would be in the last group to get the chance to /roll at it. Minimum of 4 weeks is not even covering all of the officers. If you knew the loot rules, said you were fine with it in the OP but now balk then the problem is with you. There was always a chance that people would stop raiding before you got the mount.

But now you balk because the word forced was used in conjunction with only 4 weeks. Be realistic. If you are worried about not getting it then you always were even if you won't admit it. If you've only been with the guild for 5 or 6 weeks you aren't that big of an asset otherwise you would be a higher rank. They can't steal the mount.

If it bothers you then leave the guild and find a new one. You decided to stay with this guild even when you knew their mount distribution method. No one to blame but yourself.

No, I didn't know all this ahead of time. When they talked initially about the mount, it sounded like they were planning to make sure that we would keep the raids going LONG after the first Argus kill. Now it's changed to '4 weeks'. I also dislike how this new forceful kick has been announced tonight only for this 'period' where the officers will get the mount, along with RL and GM.

Yes, I was always worried of not getting it, but I thought I'd get my chance eventually hopefully. I also know that I will be promoted to core raider soon, due to the officer who arranges the rank telling me about it, so I'd have no issue to roll shortly after the time rolls for core raiders become available.

And well, about the asset part, I will keep considering myself as such, considering I've not been benched for all 5-6 weeks, and even core raiders of the same class/specc as me have been benched, unlike me.

[Twix]

Everyone should get a fair shot at the mount.. why do your guild master and officers think they're special? In our guild, everyone who is not a trial can roll on the mounts at the end of xpacs.. no drama and it's fair for everyone who put in the hours during progress.

[Soluna]

Sometimes the obvious is the most constructive thing. If you ask for advice accept the advice that is given even if you don't like it. You know the loot rules. You knew your chances were going to be slim. Now that your guild has the mounts within sight you are questioning now. Why not when you first heard the loot rules for the mount?

Were you going to leave the guild anyways once you had the mount? Were you going to stop playing your self in 4 weeks? No? Then it is a non-issue.

The thing is, his 'advise', wasn't advise. You are straightforward, and you question my thoughts, doubt my ability to help the guild, etc, but I find your questions a lot more constructive than the reply he gave me. It didn't give me any help other than 'You won't get the mount anytime soon', and well, I knew that already. What I want is to see how people feel about it, and weight how many support them, over how many don't.

I dislike this decision of the guild's leadership, but I still like some people in this guild, and even the leaders are really fun people overall, with the exception being this shady part. Furthermore, I am usually never the person to leave a guild, as I hate going out of my 'comfort', especially in quick succession, and I've only recently joined this new mythic guild, after my previous guild, the one before that, and the one before even that one, died due to low attendance/skill level.

And no, I am not going to leave the guild, and I sincerely hope that they will farm the mount for all of us and that the leaders/core raiders won't give up on it after they receive it.

[ablib]

Can you please add something constructive, instead of stating the obvious? Or are you just doing this for post count?

I think you misunderstood. What you quoted was actually very good advice. What they are saying was you're screwed either way, so you might as well get out now.

[Soluna]

I think you misunderstood. What you quoted was actually very good advice. What they are saying was you're screwed either way, so you might as well get out now.

I guess this is certainly a way to look at it. I am truly sorry if that was that person's intention.

[Jahaga]

Hah, such shady leadership. No reason behind it other than greedy.

No such thing as loot priority in my guild. Everything's free roll within reason.

[Maybach]

Smacks of ass hattery

/leave

Go find a raid team that at least has the decency to kiss you first before they fuck you