Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Rhlor]

One last time, we have absolutely zero evidence that Allerian elves have any bad relations towards Alleria because of that Sunwell accident... it's purely assumption on your part, not backed up by any canon information from the game, so stop taking it as granted. It's not. It's just a theory at best, and not really convincing theory.

Another thing is, that while elves of Allerian stronghold expressed homesickness, they also expressed that they are not going back home because of the direction Silvermoon government has taken. That should be enough for you to consider their loyalities.

You should also think about horde aligned High Elves. Once high elf decide to go red team, he will be most likely asked to take on identity of a blood elf, since it's pretty important for sin'dorei society, and being high elf means being oblivious to hardship they had to endure in order to survive. Being called high elf is not a good thing among sin'dorei. You should know that...

Also, Auric was seen in Quel'thalas ONLY during Quel'dalar questline. He is not been shown here any later. He was not here during Cataclysm, not even during MoP, not at any time later. We've seen Alleria's visit to Sunwell, and guess what, Auric was not present. He is in fact not citizen of Silvermoon. What's worth mentioning, while things get bad during that quest and Quel'delar rejects Lor'themar, Rommanth instantly accuses Auric from treachery, showing us what does they think about him. He is merely allowed at Sunwell, they are not being friendly towards him.

You have been also shown numerous sources from devs of the game stating they are not going to change status of existing NPCs or doing brand new NPCs. All you they'll do is to add new customizations to "no name" NPCs which wanders the cities, like town guards, etc.

elves from allerian stronghold had a problem with blood elves loyal to kael and whenever they speak they do so in reference to them!

[elbleuet]

elves from allerian stronghold had a problem with blood elves loyal to kael and whenever they speak they do so in reference to them!

Given they're hostile to the Horde too even after the reopening of the Dark Portal, they seem to have a problem with you too.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

was there any High Elf in Quel'thalas during the time of Scourging that remained in the Alliance? (Umbric and Void Elves not included), on the other way around there's Kael'thas and Rommath. Aethas is most likely in his teens that time as he was ignorant of the Garithossing

the mystery of "where was Vereesa and the would-be Sunreavers and Silver Covenant at the time of Garithossing" is still unexplained

I don't think it's a mystery at all.

Chronicles tells us that most of the Dalaran citizenry was evacuated before the city fell during the Third War. Lo and Behold, come Wrath, we find out that a considerable part of the city is High Elves, including Vereesa and her alliance stallwart group. I think the implication is simple; Dalaran's population is mostly the same it was before the Third War, and only a section of the elves of it under Kael'thas returned to Quel'thalas and became Blood Elves.

I think the only thing that remains vague is whether the Sunreavers as a whole are elves that went with Kael, became blood elves, and then came back, or if they could possibly be elves that remained as Dalaran population since the Third War and only recently rejoined. All we truly have as any sort of evidence is that most Sunreavers have green eyes, so they would have returned to Quel'thalas at one point. Still, I think it's entirely likely that some Dalarani elves joined the Blood Elves at the dawn of Wotlk.

I don't think the post-Second War schism is a good basis for the Alliance loyal High Elf or Blood Elf, there's Mehlar Dawnblade, and once again Kael'thas and Rommath

That's literally just 3 elves tho, contrasted the whole of the high elves we see as members of the alliance, and as neutral Kirin Tor.

2 of those are Elves that were in Dalaran and returned to Quel'thalas and become blood elves -and one that was 100% just studying there since he was the prince-, which is also the most likely origin of Sunreavers. And the third one is as far as we know the only confirmed elf that lived in human lands and returned to Quel'thalas outside that, and still I think it makes him a good representation of High Elves returning to QT post fall/during rebuilding.

Of course a broad ideological separation would not account for every elf, nor it should. The point is that High Elves that were diasporic were far more likely to remain on the alliance, not that ALL diasporic elves remained on the alliance. Of course some of them would return to the homeland as per the 3 you point out.

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elves from allerian stronghold had a problem with blood elves loyal to kael and whenever they speak they do so in reference to them!

They are literally still part of the alliance, tagged as alliance members. Dear lord.

[Rhlor]

I actually think of that a lot tbh. It's entirely possible many young elves only knew Dalaran by reason of being born there, I also think it would have been a rite of passage to go to Quel'thalas at a point in their lives, to know "the homeland". Maybe some would still chose to remain in Dalaran, maybe some would re-settle to QT. Nonetheless, it's highly unlikely that in 3k years of living in the city there weren't elven births in the city, so then it truly becomes the question of what would these elves see as their true home? Dalaran or Quel'thalas?

And I mean, the fact that ultimately like 10% of the remaining thalassians didn't become Blood Elves, it could certainly imply this was the case for a number of them, now represented by the neutral and SC population of Dalaran.

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Way to miss the point.

I think there are different reasons and not one specifically.
Hawkspear and his followers first had a problem with eating mana wyrm and later had a conflict with nathanos who at that time was an ally of quelthalas, Vereesa I think she must have been angry that quelthalas joined the horde because the orcs killed her brother and the high elves of allerian stronghold did not have a conflict with the blood elves of quelthalas had a problem with kael and his followers

[Varodoc]

Auric and his people should just join the void elves and be done with it. Their little band is literally called "Allerian", very clearly they are hardcore Alleria fanboys.

[Rhlor]

I don't think it's a mystery at all.

Chronicles tells us that most of the Dalaran citizenry was evacuated before the city fell during the Third War. Lo and Behold, come Wrath, we find out that a considerable part of the city is High Elves, including Vereesa and her alliance stallwart group. I think the implication is simple; Dalaran's population is mostly the same it was before the Third War, and only a section of the elves of it under Kael'thas returned to Quel'thalas and became Blood Elves.

I think the only thing that remains vague is whether the Sunreavers as a whole are elves that went with Kael, became blood elves, and then came back, or if they could possibly be elves that remained as Dalaran population since the Third War and only recently rejoined. All we truly have as any sort of evidence is that most Sunreavers have green eyes, so they would have returned to Quel'thalas at one point. Still, I think it's entirely likely that some Dalarani elves joined the Blood Elves at the dawn of Wotlk.




That's literally just 3 elves tho, contrasted the whole of the high elves we see as members of the alliance, and as neutral Kirin Tor.

2 of those are Elves that were in Dalaran and returned to Quel'thalas and become blood elves -and one that was 100% just studying there since he was the prince-, which is also the most likely origin of Sunreavers. And the third one is as far as we know the only confirmed elf that lived in human lands and returned to Quel'thalas outside that, and still I think it makes him a good representation of High Elves returning to QT post fall/during rebuilding.

Of course a broad ideological separation would not account for every elf, nor it should. The point is that High Elves that were diasporic were far more likely to remain on the alliance, not that ALL diasporic elves remained on the alliance. Of course some of them would return to the homeland as per the 3 you point out.

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They are literally still part of the alliance, tagged as alliance members. Dear lord.

Yes, I know, but because they believed that the high elves of Quelthalas were also followers of Kael.
Quotes

The opening of the Dark Portal brought news of my people's fate. In a way, my exile shielded me from sharing in their downfall, but to see the Farstriders throw their lot in with Kael'thas...

I never imagined my one-time brethren capable of such a thing.

The homecoming I once dreamt of will never happen. This forest is the only home I have left.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Theloria_Shadecloak

but now everyone knows that the blood elves of quelthalas are not the same group as kael's followers

Ros'eleth works alongside the blood elves as a member of Unseen Path

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Auric and his people should just join the void elves and be done with it. Their little band is literally called "Allerian", very clearly they are hardcore Alleria fanboys.

allerian stronghold was a settlement built before the destruction of draenor.

[Varodoc]

Yes, I know, but because they believed that the high elves of Quelthalas were also followers of Kael.
Quotes

The opening of the Dark Portal brought news of my people's fate. In a way, my exile shielded me from sharing in their downfall, but to see the Farstriders throw their lot in with Kael'thas...

I never imagined my one-time brethren capable of such a thing.

The homecoming I once dreamt of will never happen. This forest is the only home I have left.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Theloria_Shadecloak

but now everyone knows that the blood elves of quelthalas are not the same group as kael's followers

Ros'eleth works alongside the blood elves as a member of Unseen Path

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allerian stronghold was a settlement built before the destruction of draenor.

Ok... thanks for the trivia?

[Ardenaso]

I don't think it's a mystery at all.

Chronicles tells us that most of the Dalaran citizenry was evacuated before the city fell during the Third War. Lo and Behold, come Wrath, we find out that a considerable part of the city is High Elves, including Vereesa and her alliance stallwart group. I think the implication is simple; Dalaran's population is mostly the same it was before the Third War, and only a section of the elves of it under Kael'thas returned to Quel'thalas and became Blood Elves.

I think the only thing that remains vague is whether the Sunreavers as a whole are elves that went with Kael, became blood elves, and then came back, or if they could possibly be elves that remained as Dalaran population since the Third War and only recently rejoined. All we truly have as any sort of evidence is that most Sunreavers have green eyes, so they would have returned to Quel'thalas at one point. Still, I think it's entirely likely that some Dalarani elves joined the Blood Elves at the dawn of Wotlk.

perhaps they were in Theramore during the time of Frozen Throne, I guess. Now begs the question why would the Silver Covenant have to go through their self-brought trouble of fighting for the Alliance and fighting their Blood Elf kin when they could just be neutral like Vereesa's own husband, and pre-MOP Jaina and just chill around in Dalaran and the Argent Crusade outposts

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I can't believe I myself have to question the High Elves' actual ulterior motives when not so long ago I was an Alliance fanboy going "the Blood Elves today are the same cowards who hid in Quel'thalas during the Second War and when Lordaeron was being Scourged"

[Rhlor]

perhaps they were in Theramore during the time of Frozen Throne, I guess. Now begs the question why would the Silver Covenant have to go through their self-brought trouble of fighting for the Alliance and fighting their Blood Elf kin when they could just be neutral like Vereesa's own husband, and pre-MOP Jaina and just chill around in Dalaran and the Argent Crusade outposts

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I can't believe I myself have to question the High Elves' actual ulterior motives when not so long ago I was an Alliance fanboy going "the Blood Elves today are the same cowards who hid in Quel'thalas during the Second War and when Lordaeron was being Scourged"

during the second war the elves of quelthalas sent aid against the horde until their final defeat, but instead the high elves alone had to fight against the forest trolls

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I think there are different reasons and not one specifically.
Hawkspear and his followers first had a problem with eating mana wyrm and later had a conflict with nathanos who at that time was an ally of quelthalas, Vereesa I think she must have been angry that quelthalas joined the horde because the orcs killed her brother and the high elves of allerian stronghold did not have a conflict with the blood elves of quelthalas had a problem with kael and his followers

Indeed, that's why I think the fanon of "High Elves are against mana syphoning ethically and thus oppose Blood Elves" is reductive and innacurate. That's the whole point, that we already have more nuanced reasons why some High Elves remained on the alliance rather than one single ethical issue.

I think a lot of High Elves had the same attitude of Vereesa, other already just had made the Alliance their home, etc, again, the point is that the ethics of mana siphoning as part of the schism is a) unnecessary and b) fanon

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Auric and his people should just join the void elves and be done with it. Their little band is literally called "Allerian", very clearly they are hardcore Alleria fanboys.

I have always aid VE's would have been made far more sense as Alleria's stalwarts on Outland. They all clearly respect her. I still think they would join her rn.

Auric himself I really don't know tho, because pretty much what defines his character is to allow all High Elves to visit the Sunwell, so I do think he would try to remain as neutral as possible, and joining a revolutionary entity that seeks to subvert BElven power would be a big no.

[Ardenaso]

That's literally just 3 elves tho, contrasted the whole of the high elves we see as members of the alliance, and as neutral Kirin Tor.

2 of those are Elves that were in Dalaran and returned to Quel'thalas and become blood elves -and one that was 100% just studying there since he was the prince-, which is also the most likely origin of Sunreavers. And the third one is as far as we know the only confirmed elf that lived in human lands and returned to Quel'thalas outside that, and still I think it makes him a good representation of High Elves returning to QT post fall/during rebuilding.

I don't think it was just Kael'thas and Rommath, surely there has to be around a hundred Magisters who came from Dalaran to arrive back at Silvermoon since everything is downscaled.

Also there's that Paladin Trainer in Orgrimmar that isn't a Blood Knight, so he may have been like Mehlar; also with the Blood/High Elf Paladins/Priests in the Argent Dawn/Crusade that at least some of them should consider going back to Quel'thalas

but yeah I guess I also have to agree with this one ↓

Of course a broad ideological separation would not account for every elf, nor it should. The point is that High Elves that were diasporic were far more likely to remain on the alliance, not that ALL diasporic elves remained on the alliance. Of course some of them would return to the homeland as per the 3 you point out.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yes, I know, but because they believed that the high elves of Quelthalas were also followers of Kael.
Quotes

The opening of the Dark Portal brought news of my people's fate. In a way, my exile shielded me from sharing in their downfall, but to see the Farstriders throw their lot in with Kael'thas...

I never imagined my one-time brethren capable of such a thing.

The homecoming I once dreamt of will never happen. This forest is the only home I have left.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Theloria_Shadecloak

but now everyone knows that the blood elves of quelthalas are not the same group as kael's followers

Ros'eleth works alongside the blood elves as a member of Unseen Path

What part of "This group tagged as alliance is alliance" is not clicking for you. It's like you are utterly obviating that Blood Elves are Horde and High Elves alliance.

OF COURSE many High Elves may have chosen to return to Quel'thalas after Kael's defeat, but you really keep dismissing the fact all of these Allerian elves were Alliance members that explicitly traveled to Draenor to fight the Horde, it's bonkers to presume most of them would simply join the Horde.

Literally look at Alleria; she is the "archetype" of those High Elves, and she pretty much is disgusted with the idea of BE's being Horde. That is most likely the general attitude of the Allerian Elves, and at BEST we have seen some of them be neutral towards the Horde.

Yet you keep thinking it is as likely for all of them to simply rejoin the Horde, and I literally cannot follow that logic.

[Ardenaso]

Heh. On the other hand I really do wish Eldre'thalas would be restored as a new Highborne grand city with Alleria as the leader, with a triumvirate of Umbric leading the Void Elves, Mordent leading the Shen'dralar, and Vereesa/Auric/Arator leading the High Elves

someone told me on r*ddit that he theorizes that the Windrunners are the second highest political group in Quel'thalas as they have the very huge spire higher than everyone else (though they have no position in the Convocation) so they have a huge political sway over Alliance leaning elves so it's not far-fetched hehe

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

perhaps they were in Theramore during the time of Frozen Throne, I guess. Now begs the question why would the Silver Covenant have to go through their self-brought trouble of fighting for the Alliance and fighting their Blood Elf kin when they could just be neutral like Vereesa's own husband, and pre-MOP Jaina and just chill around in Dalaran and the Argent Crusade outposts

Now where they were from the evacuation til the Vanilla dome is anybody's guess tbh, but I doubt Theramor. IMO it would have been more likely any safe alliance territory on the EK.

Also I think Vereesa's and the SC motivation is rather self evident. They are anti Horde. We have been told several times how much the Windrunners suffered during the Second War at the hands of the Horde, so the SC are very likely elves that suffered in a similar manner to the Windrunners. So as much as the BElves that suffered under Garithos became anti-alliance, the ones that suffered during the second war are more likely to be anti Horde.

I don't think it was just Kael'thas and Rommath, surely there has to be around a hundred Magisters who came from Dalaran to arrive back at Silvermoon since everything is downscaled.

Also there's that Paladin Trainer in Orgrimmar that isn't a Blood Knight, so he may have been like Mehlar; also with the Blood/High Elf Paladins/Priests in the Argent Dawn/Crusade that at least some of them should consider going back to Quel'thalas

but yeah I guess I also have to agree with this one ↓

Oh I agree, that's what I mean with "the origin of the Sunreavers"; that a lot of elves would have come with Kael and Rommath. But that's the point, as much Rommath represents the Dalarani Elves that returned to QT, Veressa and The SC represents the elves that didn't and remained staunchly alliance when the KT went neutral.

And as I already said:

And the third one (Melhar) is as far as we know the only confirmed elf that lived in human lands and returned to Quel'thalas outside that, and still I think it makes him a good representation of High Elves returning to QT post fall/during rebuilding.

So if we have representation of Melhar returning to Qt post fall, it's entirely likely many other high elves did and became Blood Elves -and may continue to do so in the present day-

(As for the specifics of the Paladin trainer in Orgimmar, wasn't he updated to be a Blood Knight?)

[Rhlor]

What part of "This group tagged as alliance is alliance" is not clicking for you. It's like you are utterly obviating that Blood Elves are Horde and High Elves alliance.

OF COURSE many High Elves may have chosen to return to Quel'thalas after Kael's defeat, but you really keep dismissing the fact all of these Allerian elves were Alliance members that explicitly traveled to Draenor to fight the Horde, it's bonkers to presume most of them would simply join the Horde.

Literally look at Alleria; she is the "archetype" of those High Elves, and she pretty much is disgusted with the idea of BE's being Horde. That is most likely the general attitude of the Allerian Elves, and at BEST we have seen some of them be neutral towards the Horde.

Yet you keep thinking it is as likely for all of them to simply rejoin the Horde, and I literally cannot follow that logic.

Ros'eleth if I remember correctly was friendly with the horde in the hunter class order, but to confirm I enter with my hunter.
and I did not say all I speak of 3 characters in specific

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Heh. On the other hand I really do wish Eldre'thalas would be restored as a new Highborne grand city with Alleria as the leader, with a triumvirate of Umbric leading the Void Elves, Mordent leading the Shen'dralar, and Vereesa/Auric/Arator leading the High Elves

someone told me on r*ddit that he theorizes that the Windrunners are the second highest political group in Quel'thalas as they have the very huge spire higher than everyone else (though they have no position in the Convocation) so they have a huge political sway over Alliance leaning elves so it's not far-fetched hehe

Honestly I kinda follow that theory. Just in in game representation the Windrunners are the only ones with a "seat of power" and a village, so I do buy into the theory that they were very high on the Thalassian Heriarchy.

Also let's not forget that the Void whispers to Alleria that "The throne of Silvermoon is yours by right" which also implies that the Windrunners might be part of the succession like after the Sunstriders. It's just odd that the whispers say "by right" instead of "you deserve it/ you should take it". "By right of power" is just "by might" so the wording does imply something heriarchical. Might be nothing tho.

I do like the idea of the modern "Highborne" coming together, but Alleria herself feels far too much like an outsider/free agrent. Like she refused the role of Ranger General; Umbric is ostensibly the leader of the VE. She simply comes across as preferring to act outside politics, which is why the whisper of "the throne is yours by right" seems to test that position.

IMO I don't think Alleria wants to be a leader, be it by preferring to be a wild card, or by fear of being led astray by the Void.

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Ros'eleth if I remember correctly was friendly with the horde in the hunter class order, but to confirm I enter with my hunter.
and I did not say all I speak of 3 characters in specific

FFS mate, Ros'eleth -as most members of the Class Halls- is friendly to BOTH factions, which makes her neutral dear lord. Use Context please.

[Varodoc]

It's really not a theory lmao. The Windrunners have always been the leaders of Quel'thalas' military forces, and had their own estate AND village to rule over. No other family (aside from the royal one) had as much wealth and prestige as they had.

Alleria proved to be a strong and decisive leader for the Ren'dorei in Legion and BfA, and would no doubt make for a great queen. She'd certainly be better than Theron, Mr. "Let's brainwash anyone who disagrees with me".

[Ardenaso]

(As for the specifics of the Paladin trainer in Orgimmar, wasn't he updated to be a Blood Knight?)

I don't have money to sub for Shadowlands but yeah, Avaros Dawnglaive doesn't look like a Blood Knight for me, though he is dressed as a post-WC2 and pre-Scourging non-Alliance High Elf like Thalorien



edit: Blood Knight wth

[Rhlor]

Honestly I kinda follow that theory. Just in in game representation the Windrunners are the only ones with a "seat of power" and a village, so I do buy into the theory that they were very high on the Thalassian Heriarchy.

Also let's not forget that the Void whispers to Alleria that "The throne of Silvermoon is yours by right" which also implies that the Windrunners might be part of the succession like after the Sunstriders. It's just odd that the whispers say "by right" instead of "you deserve it/ you should take it". "By right of power" is just "by might" so the wording does imply something heriarchical. Might be nothing tho.

I do like the idea of the modern "Highborne" coming together, but Alleria herself feels far too much like an outsider/free agrent. Like she refused the role of Ranger General; Umbric is ostensibly the leader of the VE. She simply comes across as preferring to act outside politics, which is why the whisper of "the throne is yours by right" seems to test that position.

IMO I don't think Alleria wants to be a leader, be it by preferring to be a wild card, or by fear of being led astray by the Void.

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FFS mate, Ros'eleth -as most members of the Class Halls- is friendly to BOTH factions, which makes her neutral dear lord. Use Context please.

sorry I thought you said that the npc was marked as neutral

but as I was saying she could return, she already worked together with the blood elves

[Ardenaso]

sorry I thought you said that the npc was marked as neutral

but as I was saying she could return, she already worked together with the blood elves

wasn't she flirting with a human (ugh) in TBC?

unless they make it so the human is a Lordaeronian and he compromises by pledging to the Argents instead of the Alliance