Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Vaedan]

i think void elves should not get the lighter hair colors, at least is one thing to show their mutation of the void, darkening at least the hair, black is fair game, but white and yellow should be something unique to blood elves, let then have t least one thing.

White and blond hair colors are not unique for blood elves in any way. In fact, from all playable races, void elves are ONLY race who don't have white hair option. Alleria have blonde hair, so I would not restrict void elves to that color either. Blood elves also got blue hair color tones, which is something what was void elf thing before (well, different tones, but still blue).

I also don't think hair colors are the most optimal options for maintaining unique feature of the race. I'd rather see blood elves getting runic tattoos and similar stuff and void elves getting something different for these races having different flavors.

On the other hand, if there have to be some differences in hair colors, I think brown and red color tones are the best candidates to remain on blood elves only.

[Varodoc]

Anyway now, there are no longer any differences between a Void Elf and a Blood Elf in full armor.

3 years ago, you mean? Since there was no way to distinguish a fully-plated Void elf from a fully-plated Blood elf.

No, you won't notice ear colour in the game.

[Ielenia]

IDK man, the part where you think his backstory is important seems more your interpretation. The way I read it, Danuser is saying there's a story behind he hopes to tell in game, not that's he will be suddenly very important, and that kinda comes across bias against Danuser, because he's basically saying "oh yeah, there's a reason that guy has blue eyes, hope we address that in game"

Well, yes. I thought that was obvious. And yes, I do believe his words imply that this "story" he claims he wants to tell is important, because, if it wasn't, I think he'd just have outright say it instead of going "I know but I'm not telling, teheh~"

And that's pretty much it, Danuser -again, whether we like him or not- is the Lead Narrative Designer, so if he basically says "there's a reason this guy has blue eyes" is pretty arrogant to say otherwise.

Well, of course there is a reason. And his words imply that the reason for it is not mundane, otherwise I don't see any reason why he wouldn't just say stuff like "he's a former Silver Covenant elf that returned to Silvermoon", for example.

Mind you, all it means it's not a bug, we still don't know the specifics of it -because most likely it's not that interesting of a story- That's it; it confirms it's not a bug.

It doesn't, really. It does not, at all. Because it could just be a PR cover story. Like 2K games saying they "didn't intend to put unskippable adds during loading screens" in their latest NBA game when it was clear it was intended.

Think about it: the high elf discussion has been one of, if not the most heated and long-discussed topic in WoW. I think, from a PR standpoint, it's better to throw fuel to the fire than to quench the discussion.

[Syegfryed]

Alleria is a void elf who keeps her high elf appearance, so she keeps her hair blonde as well.
The demand for hair colors is legitimate and necessarily possible.

lets not pretend this is about alleria, and she is a special case because ate a dark naaru, she always was, wanting to be like he and not doing hat she did seems unfair, especially when we have npcs with things that we also can't dp.

Anyway now, there are no longer any differences between a Void Elf and a Blood Elf in full armor.

people said it never had before too.

White and blond hair colors are not unique for blood elves in any way

compared to void elves they have, you have to compare on the same subrace not outside, like normal orcs don't have brown skin, normal dwarves don't have dark iron skin, void elves should no even get the skin, but they did, at least let the hair color be different.

In fact, from all playable races, void elves are ONLY race who don't have white hair option. Alleria have blonde hair, so I would not restrict void elves to that color either. Blood elves also got blue hair color tones, which is something what was void elf thing before (well, different tones, but still blue).

nothing blood elves got was from void elves, they get their death knight option.

I also don't think hair colors are the most optimal options for maintaining unique feature of the race. I'd rather see blood elves getting runic tattoos and similar stuff and void elves getting something different for these races having different flavors.

people will ask for the same tattoos later down the road, cause reasons, so thing should stop somewhere before void elvs became virtually 2 races

On the other hand, if there have to be some differences in hair colors, I think brown and red color tones are the best candidates to remain on blood elves only.

why brown?

red, white and blonde seems fair.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

i think void elves should not get the lighter hair colors, at least is one thing to show their mutation of the void, darkening at least the hair, black is fair game, but white and yellow should be something unique to blood elves, let then have t least one thing.

Nah, it really makes no sense in universe when, unlike skin and eye color, you can dye hair.

To limit Void Elves to only dark hair colors would simply be an arbitrary forced distinction from a meta level, specially when their leader has natural blonde color, and now VE's can have her skin tone AND eye color.

If it's arbitrary, it's just arbitrary.

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It doesn't, really. It does not, at all. Because it could just be a PR cover story. Like 2K games saying they "didn't intend to put unskippable adds during loading screens" in their latest NBA game when it was clear it was intended.

Think about it: the high elf discussion has been one of, if not the most heated and long-discussed topic in WoW. I think, from a PR standpoint, it's better to throw fuel to the fire than to quench the discussion.

Dude if you wanna start a conspiracy theory about this I'm not your guy. What if Danuser has just wanted to give blue eyes to Blood Elves for a while and he has peppered some here and there? If he says there was a reason that guy has blue eyes, to contradict that you are simply saying he is lying.

Because you are literally saying he is not being truthful when he says there is a reason -possibly a very unimportant one- that guy had blue eyes and instead you chose to believe it's a conspiracy theory PR cover story? That's just ilogical

Dude, the lead narrative designer said there was a reason, it's not a bug. Even if it started as a bug they changed their mind. What are you even arguing against? The official statement is that there's a reason for his eyes, so it's really you just not accepting the facts because they don't suit you. Hardly any different than all those people that said HE's are un-viable as an AR despite the facts.

All of this is you simply not wanting Blood Elves to have blue eyes. just like Syegfryed not wanting VE's to have white and blonde hair -despite Alleria having blonde hair.
Y'all need to check your biases, pretty please.

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Alleria is a void elf who keeps her high elf appearance, so she keeps her hair blonde as well.
The demand for hair colors is legitimate and necessarily possible.

Anyway now, there are no longer any differences between a Void Elf and a Blood Elf in full armor.

Trying to enforce strict aesthetic differences when they have already been discounted as unnecessary -silhouette argument, coloration argument- and contradict lore depictions -Alleria's blonde hair, specially when her skin tone and eye color are available to players- is just illogical bias at this point

[Ielenia]

Dude if you wanna start a conspiracy theory about this I'm not your guy.

I'm not trying to start any conspiracy, here. What I said is a fact: what Danuser said in his tweet in no way confirms that those blood elves having blue eyes back then is not a bug.

Because you are literally saying he is not being truthful when he says there is a reason -possibly a very unimportant one- that guy had blue eyes and instead you chose to believe it's a conspiracy theory PR cover story? That's just ilogical

I never said he is lying. I simply said he could be lying. There's a difference.

Dude, the lead narrative designer said there was a reason, it's not a bug. Even if it started as a bug they changed their mind. What are you even arguing against? The official statement is that there's a reason for his eyes, so it's really you just not accepting the facts because they don't suit you. Hardly any different than all those people that said HE's are un-viable as an AR despite the facts.

I'll repeat: those are meaningless NPCs that contribute in nothing to the lore of the game. Revealing why they have blue eyes would have not spoiled anything. And worse: the Shadowlands' player customization update proves that Danuser was full of shit considering there is no "story" to tell about why those NPCs have blue eyes. Because no story whatsoever is introduced to explain the blood elves' "sudden blue eyes" and the void elves' "sudden pink skin".

All of this is you simply not wanting Blood Elves to have blue eyes. just like Syegfryed not wanting VE's to have white and blonde hair -despite Alleria having blonde hair.
Y'all need to check your biases, pretty please.

Um... excuse me? Holy leap of logic, Batman. Not even Stiltman can make a leap that far. This entire conversation has nothing to do with me wanting blood elves to have blue eyes or not. Nothing.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I never said he is lying. I simply said he could be lying. There's a difference.

Really? Come on dude, what part of discounting actual sources just because don't think they are truthful is bias is not clicking with you?

Danuser said there was a reason why that NPC has blue eyes, your constant pursuit in de-legitimizing the confirmation that blood elves can have blue eyes in kinda bonkers. That BE players can have blue eyes means that it is ALREADY a possibility, just like humans getting darks skin, and the fact that Blood Elf NPC already had blue eyes further cements that!

You are literally sounding like the people asking for a reason why humans can hae black skin, are you seriously not realizing that?

Um... excuse me? Holy leap of logic, Batman. Not even Stiltman can make a leap that far. This entire conversation has nothing to do with me wanting blood elves to have blue eyes or not. Nothing.

Dude you are bending backwards to discredit Danuser's statements, how is a leap to say you are biased?

[Ielenia]

Really? Come on dude, what part of discounting actual sources just because don't think they are truthful is bias is not clicking with you?

Because it's not bias, at all. Yes, I don't like Danuser, but my interpretation to what he said has to more to do with logic than anything revolving bias. I'll repeat:
• We're talking about meaningless blood elf NPCs that have as much weight in the lore as a fly.
• Revealing the reason why those blood elf NPCs have blue eyes would in nothing impact the lore unless those NPCs were suddenly catapulted into prominence within the lore to the likes of Valeera, Calia, and Rexxar. That's cheap writing.
• Danuser's reply is rather immature, with his "I know but I'm not telling" statement.

Danuser said there was a reason why that NPC has blue eyes,

The Shadowlands expansion then practically proved me right when I said I didn't believe Danuser's claim about "stories to tell" considering we have zero explanation in the lore as to why blood elves suddenly can have blue eyes. Instead of being one big lore-heavy event to explain the sudden appearance of blue-eyed blood elves 'en masse', it's just a "there were always blood elves with blue eyes".

Dude you are bending backwards to discredit Danuser's statements, how is a leap to say you are biased?

Except you didn't accuse me of making a "leap of logic". You outright accused me of "not wanting blood elves to have blue eyes" when I never even mentioned anything remotely close to that in our conversation. I never said anything if blood elves should or should not be allowed to have blue eyes in my responses to you.

You assumed my position, and assumed wrong.

[Syegfryed]

Nah, it really makes no sense in universe when, unlike skin and eye color, you can dye hair.

in this way every race would get every single color to the hair, and lots of then don't have it, like as far i remember my orc don't have blonde either, they barely have white.

To limit Void Elves to only dark hair colors would simply be an arbitrary forced distinction from a meta level, specially when their leader has natural blonde color, and now VE's can have her skin tone AND eye color.

every race is arbitrary limited by something, i don't see why they are especial to get a different treatment, it make sense darkening the hair due to void energies, maybe is something strong that a simple dye doesn't wok, but is something to set then apart since skin is not game anymore

We also have to stop using leaders as something so crucial, cause forsakens never had sylvanas elves playable, neither have Calia options.

[Edoll]

every race is arbitrary limited by something, i don't see why they are especial to get a different treatment, it make sense darkening the hair due to void energies, maybe is something strong that a simple dye doesn't wok, but is something to set then apart since skin is not game anymore

We also have to stop using leaders as something so crucial, cause forsakens never had sylvanas elves playable, neither have Calia options.

I fully agree with you that we shouldn’t rely on “but muh leader looks like this!!!” unless you apply it equally to the Forsaken, but there’s no good reason to deny Void Elves white hair. It would look great against their void skins and Alleria has white hair in her void form too.

[Ardenaso]

eh I'd still draw the line against blonde hair IMO

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cause forsakens never had sylvanas elves playable

Dark Ranger customizations for Forsaken!

[Syegfryed]

I fully agree with you that we shouldn’t rely on “but muh leader looks like this!!!” unless you apply it equally to the Forsaken, but there’s no good reason to deny Void Elves white hair. It would look great against their void skins and Alleria has white hair in her void form too.

white and too light options kinda goes against all the void shenanigans, thy should get black, purple and those kind void colors, a set of colors that are NOT options for blood elves, to set then more apart, and i think alleria hair is blue, i don't remember being white, could be wrong too

[Uthan]

While I personally disagreee and would prefer blonde hair being allowed as well, I can see why one would want to restrict it to keep some difference. Not giving Void Elves the previously High Elf only blue hair color though is just silly (both being the color of the Alliance and close to the color spectrum of the void).

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Because it's not bias, at all. Yes, I don't like Danuser, but my interpretation to what he said has to more to do with logic than anything revolving bias. I'll repeat:
• We're talking about meaningless blood elf NPCs that have as much weight in the lore as a fly.
• Revealing the reason why those blood elf NPCs have blue eyes would in nothing impact the lore unless those NPCs were suddenly catapulted into prominence within the lore to the likes of Valeera, Calia, and Rexxar. That's cheap writing.
• Danuser's reply is rather immature, with his "I know but I'm not telling" statement.


The Shadowlands expansion then practically proved me right when I said I didn't believe Danuser's claim about "stories to tell" considering we have zero explanation in the lore as to why blood elves suddenly can have blue eyes. Instead of being one big lore-heavy event to explain the sudden appearance of blue-eyed blood elves 'en masse', it's just a "there were always blood elves with blue eyes".


Except you didn't accuse me of making a "leap of logic". You outright accused me of "not wanting blood elves to have blue eyes" when I never even mentioned anything remotely close to that in our conversation. I never said anything if blood elves should or should not be allowed to have blue eyes in my responses to you.

You assumed my position, and assumed wrong.

Did I? Cause again you fail to address the lack of logic of your posture, so beyond you don't want blue eyes for blood elves, what other explanation there is?

It's insane how you keep doubling down on dismissing Danuser when "yeah there's a reason that guy has blue eyes, might tell later" is all we need to know to define it as a bug or intended -even if it didn't start like that- Because again, how relevant the NPC is is not freaking relevant! What matters is that Danuser there's a reason why that Blood Elf has blue eyes, just like PCs can have blue eyes. So What are you even arguing at this point save for arguing's sake?

Again, are you this mad of human with dark skins, or you really only care if it's about blue eyes blood elves?
This incessant necessity of an specific WHY Lanesh or other blood elves have blue eyes when: We have known since the start that the fel taint would fade in time, all that has changed was the timeframe. It has ALWAYS been possible within the lore. What about BE's that only recently rejoined? why would they have green eyes? There are already prefectly reasonable explanations of the way beyond even "they could always have" so again, what are you even asking?

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in this way every race would get every single color to the hair, and lots of then don't have it, like as far i remember my orc don't have blonde either, they barely have white.

You say that as if would be a bad thing? Why would more hair colors for everyone be bad?

every race is arbitrary limited by something, i don't see why they are especial to get a different treatment, it make sense darkening the hair due to void energies, maybe is something strong that a simple dye doesn't wok, but is something to set then apart since skin is not game anymore

We also have to stop using leaders as something so crucial, cause forsakens never had sylvanas elves playable, neither have Calia options.

"Every race is arbitrary limited by something" does not cut it when we are talking about lore here, and really doesn't either when gameplay has pretty much already made any differenciation moot. "It makes sense darkening the hair due to void energies" no it freaking doesn't when skin car remain utterly unchanged. FFS, think about what you are saying and realize the utter lack of consistency.

"We have to stop using leaders as something so crucial" See, that's why context is a thing; Sylvanas was an elf while playable undead are humans, Calia was risen by a completely different type of magic. Alleria and the rest of the Void Elves were changed by the same cosmic force, different manner, and if you say "well that justifies hair color, but only hair color!" Then I'm going to laugh at your face.

I'm sorry, but after VE's were giving the same skin tone and eye color than Alleria, any justification that the manner of voidification impacted appearance got thrown out of the window. All we have now is arbitrary distinction, and while that is entirely discretionary of the devs, it will be a cold day in hell before it makes for a good lore argument FFS.

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I fully agree with you that we shouldn’t rely on “but muh leader looks like this!!!” unless you apply it equally to the Forsaken, but there’s no good reason to deny Void Elves white hair. It would look great against their void skins and Alleria has white hair in her void form too.

Like LFD, Void elves were ridiculously limited concept wise. They need a wider spectrum of colors just from a design perspective; if they want to keep VE hair colors different, they could add lighter colors, but in "ashy" or "desaturated" hues, as if Void robbed their hair color of their sun kissed vibrancy. That would be a design choice that reflects a lore concern. Bonus point if Alleria's hair color also gets a bit washed out as well, it would tie everything together.

[FossilFree]

Like LFD, Void elves were ridiculously limited concept wise. They need a wider spectrum of colors just from a design perspective; if they want to keep VE hair colors different, they could add lighter colors, but in "ashy" or "desaturated" hues, as if Void robbed their hair color of their sun kissed vibrancy. That would be a design choice that reflects a lore concern. Bonus point if Alleria's hair color also gets a bit washed out as well, it would tie everything together.

This makes the most sense to me. Add blonde, brown, and red with a dash of gray thrown in, like all of their other hair colors have.

[Ielenia]

Did I? Cause again you fail to address the lack of logic of your posture, so beyond you don't want blue eyes for blood elves, what other explanation there is?

Yes. Yes, you did. The only reason you see a "lack of logic" in my "posture" is because you're trying to fit my "posture" into a pre-conceived notion of what you think my position is.

It's insane how you keep doubling down on dismissing Danuser when "yeah there's a reason that guy has blue eyes, might tell later" is all we need to know to define it as a bug or intended -even if it didn't start like that- Because again, how relevant the NPC is is not freaking relevant! What matters is that Danuser there's a reason why that Blood Elf has blue eyes, just like PCs can have blue eyes. So What are you even arguing at this point save for arguing's sake?

Because his words do not confirm that those blood elf npcs having blue eyes was not a bug, as you said in your original claim:

Mind you, all it means it's not a bug, we still don't know the specifics of it -because most likely it's not that interesting of a story- That's it; it confirms it's not a bug.

Again, are you this mad of human with dark skins, or you really only care if it's about blue eyes blood elves?

So you insist that I am "mad that blood elves got blue eyes" even when I never expressed said sentiment in our conversation and even told you that is not my position? Are you actually arguing in bad faith and trying to get an irate response out of me that would likely get me infracted?

This incessant necessity of an specific WHY Lanesh or other blood elves have blue eyes when: We have known since the start that the fel taint would fade in time, all that has changed was the timeframe. It has ALWAYS been possible within the lore. What about BE's that only recently rejoined? why would they have green eyes? There are already prefectly reasonable explanations of the way beyond even "they could always have" so again, what are you even asking?

Then why didn't Danuser, the lead narrative designer, didn't simply say so? "The fel taint disappears in time. Some got rid of it earlier than others." Such a simple response that would have helped so much in the discussion and would affect in nothing future stories. But, again, he resorted to that immature "I know but I'm not telling" response.

You would know what I'm asking, if you actually read my questions and arguments instead of creating a frigging strawman of my position and solely focusing on your strawman instead of addressing what I'm really writing.

[Ardenaso]

^you two better take it to the DMs

[Garfurion]

I'm going on a limb here and throw a wild hypothesis here: Blizzard is 'seeding' a possible "void mage"-y class. I mean, the high elf sorceress has purple eyes, the color of the old void elf eyes, and then we look at Exile's March, and we have Meredy Huntswell, a dwarf mage (because she acts as the "mage trainer") who casts a void spell on you to polymorph you into an orgre.

I think the high elf sorceress has violet eyes not purple. According to Sean Copeland aka Loreology "Arcane magic is canonically white and/or violet in the lore"
source: https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Arch...from_Loreology

Dalaran also uses a lot of "violet" in names (Violet Hold, Violet Citadel) but is arcane focused as well. Arcane Missiles also appear violet.

[Varodoc]

Alleria has blonde hair. There is no reason why Void elves should be denied blonde, black, and other hair color options.

Blood elves can remain unique by giving them a set of Dark Ranger-themed customization options.

[Ielenia]

I think the high elf sorceress has violet eyes not purple. According to Sean Copeland aka Loreology "Arcane magic is canonically white and/or violet in the lore"
source: https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Arch...from_Loreology

Dalaran also uses a lot of "violet" in names (Violet Hold, Violet Citadel) but is arcane focused as well. Arcane Missiles also appear violet.

Like I said to another poster: that is why I have never gave any thought to it until I saw the dwarf mage actually casting a void spell in the Exile's Reach zone.