Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Vaedan]

Until this is shown in game or detailed to us by Blizzard then what you just posted is irrelevant and merely pure speculation (that the playable void elf can or has undergone the same transformation as Alleria). As it currently stands, void elves are created via a different method than Alleria. Despite their different transformation they are all called "rendorei" though, which means "children of the void". So, any playable void elf is a child of the void and their aesthetics should reflect their thematic.

Well, in the same logic, any playable troll should be only jungle troll of Darkspear tribe and their thematics should reflect that and any playable dwarf should be mountain dwarf of Bronzebeard clan and their thematics should reflect that, and yet here we are with sand troll and wildhammer thematics baked into troll and dwarf core races. Devs also told us they intend to expand high elf fantasy on both sides, so it's safe to expect void elves getting more high elf option in the future. The question is how it will be implemented and how Blizzard will chose to differentiate void elves and blood elves after that, because there should be some differences.

The problem is that Blizz is already blurring the lines on both groups. At first, they added all blood elf skins to void elves, which was unneccessary. I guess few natural skin would be just fine, adding all blood elf palette was kind of overkill for me. Tanned and black skin tones do not really fit void elf theme at all, and yet here we are. In the same way, blue hair color themes do not really fit into blood elf theme, it definitely blurs the lines between them and void elves and yet, here we are. I know these colors were imported from blood elf DKs, but still blue hair used to be a feature which was one those which set void elves apart.

Don't forget that devs claimed these new customizations are meant as a way for players to bring their RP better into the reality and it does not need to followed by the lore all the times.

light undead like calia for forsaken allied race

To be honest, I'd rather see San'layn allied race instead. Undead elves are important part of the Horde from the very beginning and players deserve to play as one, especially now when Blizz is opening all these unplayable options like sand trolls and wildhammers.

Light undead are abomination and there should not be many of these. I hope Calia will stay unique exception, not the rule.

[Ardenaso]

Next I plan to whine incessantly until they add covenant allied races.

perhaps I haven't whined enough for Alteraci Human and perhaps Ogres and Furbolgs

also, it's quite sad and disheartening to see that the same people who clamored for High Elves or at least fair skinned Void Elves are also the ones who want to deny me Alteraci Human

[shoc]

perhaps I haven't whined enough for Alteraci Human and perhaps Ogres and Furbolgs

also, it's quite sad and disheartening to see that the same people who clamored for High Elves or at least fair skinned Void Elves are also the ones who want to deny me Alteraci Human

Am I a joke to you

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-(Fan-Concept)

[Ardenaso]

Am I a joke to you

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-(Fan-Concept)

I mean other people lol my necro there is my very first post here

[Alanar]

"Playable race" and "actual race" are two very different things.


Except... they are. The player forsaken is a Lordaeron human. You literally start by climbing out of your grave in Lordaeron.


Those "couple of extra lines" completely invalidates your quote-mining. The majority of the forsaken are human, because the forsaken are Lordaeron humans and the rest are just aggregates.


You quoted my question, and yet you completely failed to answer it. I'll repeat: so what if the Mag'har orcs weren't playable back then? They're playable now.


Once again:the time she spent in command of the forsaken is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if she's been their leader for fifteen minutes or fifteen years. It doesn't change the fact that Sylvanas is an elf banshee and the player forsaken is a zombie human.


Then you're tossing basic logic out the window. It doesn't matter if you or others don't care she's not human. It's an important and meaningful detail that cannot be brushed aside.


You mean you can't argue against it.

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Yes, 'draenei' is just a name for the playable group of eredar. What's your point?


You're comparing a slight difference in height to a completely different body type, here. Wildhammer dwarves are easy to add to the Bronzebeard dwarf player customization because both are dwarves. But Sylvanas is an elf while the player forsaken is a human. And it messes the visual identity of the race.

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Solely due to the process she has undergone.

A process, mind you, that is safely repeatable since Locus Walker has explicitly said that Alleria is not his first student.

A process, mind you, because it is safely repeatable, is the logical step forward to convert elves into void elves.

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Probably because people have never asked to play as a fat goblin? At least I don't remember seeing anyone asking for it.


It's not, but you're welcome to your opinion. Not that you have disproven my argument in any way.


That's not the point. The point is people's requests.


Maybe. But irrelevant since that was never my claim. But by that same token, black and blue hair colors don't fit the theme of the playable blood elves, but here we are, right?

Sylvanas is still forsaken like the player character. Your agument here falls flat when you argue over void/high elves. Just stop dude..

They are classified as forsaken and that group is called the forsaken. If you go to races in select screen click on undead and read what it says. Why are you arguing facts??

Listen idk how long this post of yours took with all the bolded parts what I dont get.. I mean its not making your argue stronger in anyway.

I also still dont get what you are making a fuzs about. You cant stop the requests , which is also not your job. Who are you lol and what is stopping you from asking that stupid turayon bit again.. which I explained. You dont have a point here and its a stupid comparison. You are asking of you can be play a human on the lightforged side because appearntly you cant play as a human according to you. Also your comparison.. no one ever asked that.

I have seen multiple threads about gallywix and Nathanos.. who are you to dismiss that? Like I said it feels like you just arrived and have no clue.

Sylvanas request has been around when you werent and a hot topic for years. What is troubeling you about the request to look like their leader? We never got it that ship has sailed to your logic.. which is not true and just your opinion. No one cares dude.

I dont see reason why I would continue argueing every detail when you get burned from left and right in the past 2 pages. You are stating your opinion which i dont care about. I am stating facts.
You are waving away my examples.. which is just to get your right, which I am not giving you. Most of what you write is opinion based..

So asking you again.. last time what is your point dude?
You are having the same stupid conversation with syfrid and he is saying the same thing. You do best to continue that conversation with him.. its .. just I see you are trying realy hard here and want to debate over nothing.. which I pass for. I feel like I am wasting my time on those type of people.

You are also going way off topic to what I was talking about and again I dont need to explain anything realy you quoted me and hopped the wagon just to argue over nothing. Thats sad. So I ask you nicely now to stop trying to debate over every little thing and continue your childish outburst with some one else.

[shoc]

I mean other people lol my necro there is my very first post here

I think if a future expansion ever revisits Eastern Kingdoms we could see the Alteraci but as far as factions in WoW go they have zero presence, it would be a hard sell.

I am skeptical of Lightbound Orcs being their own Allied Race but I would love to see it as Mag'har customization, like Orcs who were forcibly Lightforged but broke away, giving them golden colored tattoos. Maybe even open the door to Mag'har Orc Paladins?? That would be wild. This comes back to what would be cool to see from a future update to the Allied Races, instead of whinging about Void Elves not being High Elf enough at this very very moment.

[Alanar]

Gallywix is the exact same race as playable goblins yet goblin players still don't have the option to look like him. Your argument is weak. As it stands, the PC doesn't always get to look like their leaders. Leaders are often made to look different so that they can "stand out".

Plus, blonde hair does not fit with the theme of playable void elves. Their theme is a dark pallete, so I'd expect a pure black hair option and maybe some dark browns, and even a pure white to contrast the void. But blondes, reds, browns, ginger, (ie natural colors) certainly do not fit the theme of the race.

This is my point. The top part.
Its not hard to understand that.. same count for Nathanos, sylvanas, calia and garrosh, but appearntly sylvanas isnt forsaken enough and old examples of garrosh appearntly dont count altho its the exact same thing. Nathanos is forsaken and human, but you also dont have the option to look like him. Malfurion same story.. I can go on.. what s pointless discussion.. what is he trying to achieve?

So hes having the same discussion with 3 people now lmao.

[Ardenaso]

I think if a future expansion ever revisits Eastern Kingdoms we could see the Alteraci but as far as factions in WoW go they have zero presence, it would be a hard sell.

Ravenholdt? we could also slap the Fogsail and the Defias there; just add more lore to connect it

[Syegfryed]

Projecting? Dude, I literally never stated any of the opinions you are arguing against in our conversation. You're attributing them to me when I never made those statements.

?i never said you did, i just pointed out the hypocrosy in people doing that, you assumed it was about you, i wonder why? maybe in fact you did said that? well if i had patience to roll back i could find that, like you saying Baine was a coward, but like tht you will say you had a change of heart

How do you know that? As a fact? You don't? If so, then you're stating your headcanon as fact, then.

are you joking? t you call me "disonhest" "with "dumb" quetions?? this is how you are goig to ty to spin? "how do you know current void elves are not eating a dark naaru on their own? on the dially basis?"

Its funny that every topic is the same with you with all this extrapolation and nonsensical fallacies

And also, you're taking it literally. When I say "the same process Alleria went through, I do not mean the very exact 100% same process, but a similar, created and overseen by Locus Walker. You know, the guy who knows this stuff?

if it is not by eating a dark naaru they are not the same, therefore you do not get to be the same, just like other examples we have here

unless of course you use double standards, which you are

No. No, they're not the same, or even close to being the same. They have only one thing in common, which is the curse of undeath.

Which is, what it matters for being a forsaken

And even that is arguable considering Sylvanas is a banshee while the player forsaken is a zombie. Once again: forsaken is not a race. It's a group.

therefore, forsaken should be able to look like sylvanas, because she is their leader, because forsaken is a group of undeads, you should be able to play all of then

again, funny to see the double standarts

Challenge? This isn't even a challenge. Draenei have the same silhouette as draenei. Dwarves have the same silhouette as dwarves. Thalassian elves have the same silhouette as thalassian elves. Highborne elves have the same silhouette as highborne elves. Whereas humans do not have the same silhouette as thalassian elves.

You know. Basic logic?

tell me basic logic, how this even matters, knowing 2 different factions share the exact same silhouette, exact same models, the exact same skin colors, what would be the "logic breaking" of 2 races of the same faction sharing just the silhouette and model? why is ok for one and not for others?

try to explain that and fail miserable.

Again, no double standards. Read above.

it was supposed to be different? cause what i read was even more double standards

And Army of the Light is the name of the faction of draenei that fought the Legion for thousands of years.

you do not play "army of the light" is not "army of the light" in your character creation, it says ''Lightforged draenei", unlike forsaken, who said "forsaken" and not "undead human"

Again: the forsaken player is a human who lived and died in a human kingdom. Elves did not live in Lordaeron, at least nowhere near the numbers to allow them to be playable.

Again: Void elves players are elves who mutated by void energies. They do noo absorbed a dark naaru

Why are you so damn dishonest? You literally cut off the part of the paragraph that answers your dumb question:

you think your double standards somehow make sense adn asnwer, alright, you live in another reality.

Humans are the face of the Alliance. Just like orcs are the face of the Horde.

we aleady play dead humans anyway, why is the problem if they are more fleshy?

oh yes, your double standard logic that is not ok to forsaken get undead elf, because reasons, and not ok tog et the nathanos look (even if they still look massive different than the alliance humans)but its fine for void elves because reasons

Not the same thing. First, because the two are in opposite factions

which is worse

it is worse to make the opposite faction have 2 different races, that one is from the opposite faction, but it fucking happened anyway

Then we have 0 problems of forsaken playing undead elves, when blood elves are already in the horde.

Second, because unlike orcs and mag'har orcs, both are the exact same race.

void elves and blood/high elves are not the exact same race

again, double standart spices with a lie

Third, because unlike orcs, which we have never seen a green-skinned orc become brown-skinned, or a green-skinned orc family have a brown-skinned off-spring, we do have undeniable proof that a fair-skinned elf can become a fair-skinned void elf.

that is for sure a double standard answer, we had brown orcs in the horde since TBC, we do not need a "green orc becoming brown, to make that happen, again, nonsensical logic from you.

[Varodoc]

but if Umbric and co. could do it then they would have done it already much earlier like when they're casual in Stormwind or some war camps

Maybe they simply don't want to.

It's illusion magic, it's so basic and easy to do...

[Alanar]

?i never said you did, i just pointed out the hypocrosy in people doing that, you assumed it was about you, i wonder why? maybe in fact you did said that? well if i had patience to roll back i could find that, like you saying Baine was a coward, but like tht you will say you had a change of heart



are you joking? t you call me "disonhest" "with "dumb" quetions?? this is how you are goig to ty to spin? "how do you know current void elves are not eating a dark naaru on their own? on the dially basis?"

Its funny that every topic is the same with you with all this extrapolation and nonsensical fallacies


if it is not by eating a dark naaru they are not the same, therefore you do not get to be the same, just like other examples we have here

unless of course you use double standards, which you are



Which is, what it matters for being a forsaken


therefore, forsaken should be able to look like sylvanas, because she is their leader, because forsaken is a group of undeads, you should be able to play all of then

again, funny to see the double standarts



tell me basic logic, how this even matters, knowing 2 different factions share the exact same silhouette, exact same models, the exact same skin colors, what would be the "logic breaking" of 2 races of the same faction sharing just the silhouette and model? why is ok for one and not for others?

try to explain that and fail miserable.



it was supposed to be different? cause what i read was even more double standards



you do not play "army of the light" is not "army of the light" in your character creation, it says ''Lightforged draenei", unlike forsaken, who said "forsaken" and not "undead human"


Again: Void elves players are elves who mutated by void energies. They do noo absorbed a dark naaru



you think your double standards somehow make sense adn asnwer, alright, you live in another reality.


we aleady play dead humans anyway, why is the problem if they are more fleshy?

oh yes, your double standard logic that is not ok to forsaken get undead elf, because reasons, and not ok tog et the nathanos look (even if they still look massive different than the alliance humans)but its fine for void elves because reasons


which is worse

it is worse to make the opposite faction have 2 different races, that one is from the opposite faction, but it fucking happened anyway

Then we have 0 problems of forsaken playing undead elves, when blood elves are already in the horde.


void elves and blood/high elves are not the exact same race

again, double standart spices with a lie


that is for sure a double standard answer, we had brown orcs in the horde since TBC, we do not need a "green orc becoming brown, to make that happen, again, nonsensical logic from you.

I am glad the discussion is directed to you now..
Getting realy tired of the double standards and over explaining myself. I agree with you tho.

[erifwodahs]

Without reading any of this, or caring about the subject at all. I can't imagine why on earth there's 20,000 posts arguing about a third Blood Elf race being in the game.

Like; why not at this point? Let's just keep adding Blood Elves with slightly different available hairstyles. I'm sure there's at least 5 more variants of Elves that people can think of some reason to add. Makes it easy for Blizzard too, all they have to do is move the RGB slider around for a different base hair colour and ship it.

Same here. This keeps popping up in the post area but as of pre-patch there should not be any needs for it. Blue eyes is in game for anyone of the two factions who want to play High Elves.

[Ardenaso]

Same here. This keeps popping up in the post area but as of pre-patch there should not be any needs for it. Blue eyes is in game for anyone of the two factions who want to play High Elves.

lately this thread is now more on which core race should Dark Ranger options should go. I vote for Forsaken

[Rhlor]

Well, in the same logic, any playable troll should be only jungle troll of Darkspear tribe and their thematics should reflect that and any playable dwarf should be mountain dwarf of Bronzebeard clan and their thematics should reflect that, and yet here we are with sand troll and wildhammer thematics baked into troll and dwarf core races. Devs also told us they intend to expand high elf fantasy on both sides, so it's safe to expect void elves getting more high elf option in the future. The question is how it will be implemented and how Blizzard will chose to differentiate void elves and blood elves after that, because there should be some differences.

The problem is that Blizz is already blurring the lines on both groups. At first, they added all blood elf skins to void elves, which was unneccessary. I guess few natural skin would be just fine, adding all blood elf palette was kind of overkill for me. Tanned and black skin tones do not really fit void elf theme at all, and yet here we are. In the same way, blue hair color themes do not really fit into blood elf theme, it definitely blurs the lines between them and void elves and yet, here we are. I know these colors were imported from blood elf DKs, but still blue hair used to be a feature which was one those which set void elves apart.

Don't forget that devs claimed these new customizations are meant as a way for players to bring their RP better into the reality and it does not need to followed by the lore all the times.



To be honest, I'd rather see San'layn allied race instead. Undead elves are important part of the Horde from the very beginning and players deserve to play as one, especially now when Blizz is opening all these unplayable options like sand trolls and wildhammers.

Light undead are abomination and there should not be many of these. I hope Calia will stay unique exception, not the rule.

sanlayn are not part of the horde

[Alanar]

sanlayn are not part of the horde

He is not even saying that.

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lately this thread is now more on which core race should Dark Ranger options should go. I vote for Forsaken

I would say humans, blood elves, forsaken and now also night elves.

But since we already had demon hunters that are available with only 2 races I dont see it happening we get another class that is only playable with 2 races.

I am all for dark rangers..

[Vaedan]

sanlayn are not part of the horde

And what's your point? No allied race except for Dark Irons and Mag'har were members of their respective factions before they become allied races... it is actually the idea of allied races - find new allies and add them to your faction.

Like it or not, undead elves are part of the Horde from it's beginning and Horde players deserve them to be playable. When talking about potential customizations/allied race I try to avoid Dark Ranger name, since it is restrictive of only one class. San'layn are the main and most likely the only group of undead elves, so I chose them as representatives of undead elf fantasy on the Horde. We've also seen that Horde is actually willing to work with them as long as they follow the rules, so it's not that unlikely for them to be admited among their ranks again.

Actually, San'layn as a separate allied race would solve quite a lot of troubles with that concept. They would their own independent group within the Horde, they'd have their own class selection and their own specific customization. It would not mean blood elves would have to get controversial undead customizations or Forsaken getting whole new alternative model for them and Horde players would finaly have this option unlocked.

[Rhlor]

And what's your point? No allied race except for Dark Irons and Mag'har were members of their respective factions before they become allied races... it is actually the idea of allied races - find new allies and add them to your faction.

Like it or not, undead elves are part of the Horde from it's beginning and Horde players deserve them to be playable. When talking about potential customizations/allied race I try to avoid Dark Ranger name, since it is restrictive of only one class. San'layn are the main and most likely the only group of undead elves, so I chose them as representatives of undead elf fantasy on the Horde. We've also seen that Horde is actually willing to work with them as long as they follow the rules, so it's not that unlikely for them to be admited among their ranks again.

Actually, San'layn as a separate allied race would solve quite a lot of troubles with that concept. They would their own independent group within the Horde, they'd have their own class selection and their own specific customization. It would not mean blood elves would have to get controversial undead customizations or Forsaken getting whole new alternative model for them and Horde players would finaly have this option unlocked.

sanlayn now works for the jailer

[Alanar]

And what's your point? No allied race except for Dark Irons and Mag'har were members of their respective factions before they become allied races... it is actually the idea of allied races - find new allies and add them to your faction.

Like it or not, undead elves are part of the Horde from it's beginning and Horde players deserve them to be playable. When talking about potential customizations/allied race I try to avoid Dark Ranger name, since it is restrictive of only one class. San'layn are the main and most likely the only group of undead elves, so I chose them as representatives of undead elf fantasy on the Horde. We've also seen that Horde is actually willing to work with them as long as they follow the rules, so it's not that unlikely for them to be admited among their ranks again.

Actually, San'layn as a separate allied race would solve quite a lot of troubles with that concept. They would their own independent group within the Horde, they'd have their own class selection and their own specific customization. It would not mean blood elves would have to get controversial undead customizations or Forsaken getting whole new alternative model for them and Horde players would finaly have this option unlocked.

Wouldnt waste time on him. He likes to quote entire posts and then write one thing that is most of the time wrong and start some kind of pointless discussion.


On your post, I think its a great suggestion and like you said solving a bunch of problems that we had a discussion about couple of days ago. The only problem is that with bfa the horde trust with the san layn is a little broken, we would need some help to get these guys in. Any suggestions?

[Ielenia]

Non issues.

What are Forsaken Racials pertaining to? Their state of undeath.

Your examples are bogus. Worgen make themselves look human at will yet share zero of the racials.

You call my examples bogus, yet make a bogus example yourself. Is the "blood elf forsaken" going turn into a "human forsaken" the moment they enter combat? Nine times out of ten, when you, as a Horde, see a worgen around, they're in worgen form. Also, people don't play Worgen because they want to look like humans, mind you.

Who are you to decide this though?

I'm not "deciding" anything. I'm just stating the facts as to why the idea is nonsensical.

The Forsaken look as Blizzard wants them to look.

That's a non-answer. If "Blizzard wants", they can decide to remove the forsaken playable race from the game. If "Blizzard wants", they can add full-sized Titans as a playable race. If "Blizzard wants", they can add a playable farmer class into the game.

There is no difference. For that matter Kul Tiran should nit look different from Humans, but they do. Yet Wildhammers which we KNOW look different in the lore somehow are the same as Bronzebeard Dwarves? Even Amani have their own models.

How do you know that "kul'tirans should not look different from Stormwind humans"?

Semantics, like I pointed out initially. It is all Forsaken, so the playable race CAN i corporate other than humans if Blizzard wants to do it.

It's not semantics. Again, the playable forsaken race is the humans that died in Lordaeron when the Scourge invaded.

Besides, why wouldn't you consider the option thar people who want a Forsaken Elf option could also be open to having it as a separate allied race within the same Forsaken umbrella, just like suggesting Broken for the Aliiance that is considered Draenei. Any is possible given enough time and demand.

If you think you can prove that there were a sizable population of elves living in Lordaeron at the time of the Scourge invasion, big enough to warrant becoming playable, feel free. Just keep in mind that all the living high elves around weren't enough to warrant an allied race of their own, according to Blizzard's eyes.

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Sylvanas is still forsaken like the player character. Your agument here falls flat when you argue over void/high elves. Just stop dude..

And Turalyon is still the leader of the Army of the Light.

You cant stop the requests , which is also not your job.

I fail to see where I ever said I want the requests to stop or even that I want them to stop.

Sylvanas request has been around when you werent and a hot topic for years.

So has been the request to play as high elves as their own separate race.

I dont see reason why I would continue argueing every detail when you get burned from left and right in the past 2 pages. You are stating your opinion which i dont care about. I am stating facts.

You want facts? Here are some facts: Sylvanas is a banshee, the player character is a zombie. Sylvanas is an elf, the player character is a human. Making the forsaken playable race look like blood elves messes with the visual identity of the playable race.

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?i never said you did, i just pointed out the hypocrosy in people doing that, you assumed it was about you, i wonder why? maybe in fact you did said that? well if i had patience to roll back i could find that, like you saying Baine was a coward, but like tht you will say you had a change of heart

So you openly admit to using red herrings? Is that is?

are you joking? t you call me "disonhest" "with "dumb" quetions?? this is how you are goig to ty to spin? "how do you know current void elves are not eating a dark naaru on their own? on the dially basis?"

One: I never said anything about "eating dark naaru".
Two: So you think that elves are risking their lives, willingly going through a trap that is intended to convert them into thralls of the Void Lords, and hoping to have it interrupted at the right time, risking death, or worse, being slaves of the Void Lords, is more likely than them undergoing a safer, more controlled process created by Locus Walker? Is that it?

Its funny that every topic is the same with you with all this extrapolation and nonsensical fallacies

While you state your headcanons as fact?

if it is not by eating a dark naaru they are not the same, therefore you do not get to be the same, just like other examples we have here

It is the same. So what if they don't go all the way, because "dark naarus" are a rare commodity to come by, especially one that falls "naturally".

unless of course you use double standards, which you are

you are just projecting as always

therefore, forsaken should be able to look like sylvanas, because she is their leader, because forsaken is a group of undeads, you should be able to play all of then

Nope. Again, Sylvanas is an elf, and the player forsaken is a human. That's like saying my lightforged draenei should be able to look like a human since the leader of the Army of the Light is a human.

tell me basic logic, how this even matters, knowing 2 different factions share the exact same silhouette, exact same models, the exact same skin colors, what would be the "logic breaking" of 2 races of the same faction sharing just the silhouette and model? why is ok for one and not for others?

I suppose I should use simpler words, then? Considering I literally wrote the explanation and you even quoted it, but still act as if I didn't. Ok, here goes: dwarves are dwarves, elves are elves. But humans are not elves.

Again: Void elves players are elves who mutated by void energies. They do noo absorbed a dark naaru

... Really? Did you play Legion at all? Did you forget Alleria absorbing void energies more than once as you progress the quest line with her and Locus Walker? And what do you think a "dark naaru" is? It's pure void.

we aleady play dead humans anyway, why is the problem if they are more fleshy?

Humans are the face of the Alliance, and one of the two defining faces of the franchises. I honestly doubt Blizzard would add a 'human allied race' or 'human customization' to the Horde, just like I doubt Blizzard would ever add an 'orc allied race' or 'orc customization' to the Alliance.

which is worse

It's not. If a Horde player sees a thalassian elf in the distance, and its outline, nameplate or targeting circle is red, then it's unmistakably a void elf. But if it's green (or blue) isn't unmistakably a blood elf.

void elves and blood/high elves are not the exact same race

Yes, they are.

that is for sure a double standard answer, we had brown orcs in the horde since TBC, we do not need a "green orc becoming brown, to make that happen, again, nonsensical logic from you.

We also had way, WAY more high elves in the world than brown orcs. And what was the reason that the developers game for the reason why high elves aren't eligible to be a playable race, again? I think it has to do with population, or lack thereof...

[Triceron]

If you think you can prove that there were a sizable population of elves living in Lordaeron at the time of the Scourge invasion, big enough to warrant becoming playable, feel free. Just keep in mind that all the living high elves around weren't enough to warrant an allied race of their own, according to Blizzard's eyes.

Why does that matter when allied races of Void Elves, which are a *fraction* of the remaining High Elves that didn't become Blood Elves, were all allowed to exist as their own playable race? We're already dealing with low population groups that are allowed to become playable. Consider that the Blood Elves that were already low in number but in game comprise 40% of the Horde. There is no need or reason to explain this at all. You literally just contradicted your own statement about High Elves with the fact that in Blizzard's eyes, they allowed Void Elves to become a reality.

Also Forsaken Elves did not need to *live in Lordaeron at the time of the Scourge*, they were part of the Alliance in WC3 as represented by Priests and Sorceresses fighting alongside Lordaeron troops and would have died on the battlefield just the same. Also there are those that were raised afterwards like the Dark Rangers who followed Sylvanas and pledged themselves under the Forsaken banner. Exiles Reach is also a perfect way to incorporate a Forsaken Elf allied race into the game.

The easiest answer to all of this is already exemplified in the game numerous times, like why the Sand Trolls suddenly became a playable option for Trolls, or why Pandaren or Lightforged Death Knights could ever be a thing. These are all things that were considered implausible within the lore, and have become a part of the lore with very simple-to-nonexistent explanations behind them all.

There's more lore behind Forsaken Elves being possible than there is behind Sand Trolls being an option for Trolls. Think about that.

You call my examples bogus, yet make a bogus example yourself. Is the "blood elf forsaken" going turn into a "human forsaken" the moment they enter combat? Nine times out of ten, when you, as a Horde, see a worgen around, they're in worgen form. Also, people don't play Worgen because they want to look like humans, mind you.

Dude, if you can make a statement like 'People don't play Worgen because they want to look like humans' then you shouldn't be asking me to prove why 'People won't bat an eye if they get Forsaken Elves'. Don't be asinine.

Let's be clear here, you're arguing against possibility. You're bringing up reasons and arguments for why something can't exist, and you know that's as bogus as the people who came up with bogus reasons for why the Demon Hunter wouldn't be playable. Same logical fallacies are being used here. Lore is not a reason why it shouldn't happen, even if we know Illidan was 'dead'. There's no lore reason preventing Forsaken Elves to be played; the only reason is whether Blizzard devs consider it worth the effort to pursue.

Same reason why we don't have Naga right now. Effort and dedication, not a lack of lore or demand. I could come up with many many lore reasons why Naga shouldn't join the Horde/Alliance, but we would both recognize that any of those reasons would easily be considered bogus excuses considering we both know that lore can't do a damn thing to prevent Devs from adding what they want to the game. Lore is not immutable.

How do you know that "kul'tirans should not look different from Stormwind humans"?

Jaina and Daelin were both in Warcraft 3 and in WoW and look like regular Humans. Majority of the Proudmoore family look no different than Stormwind humans. The entire Kul Tiran fleet in WC3 AND in Reforged were represented by the standard human models. This is especially the case with Reforged considering they made model variations for plenty of 'sub' races, like Fel Orcs, Troll tribes, differences between Yetis and Sasquatches, etc.

That's how I know